Game of Thrones Thread

[The Hawk]

Ah, I was thinking of this scene when she said what I said she said.

[video=youtube;ucB4UrhI-3w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucB4UrhI-3w[/video]

I don't see that. Not enough time for Sansa to reach those depths. Even took Cersei 7 seasons to reach those depths. She was a bitch in the beginning but had some redeeming qualities. Now, she's a mad queen with no redeeming qualities.

The show teases some possibilities with Sansa but I believe she'll stay true for the most part. She won't try to usurp Jon and Little Fucker won't be in her head much longer.

I agree with you. She would not doublecross Jon. NO doubt she questions him but that is a good thing because he does need to be questioned because he does make some bad decisions. The person I am getting tired of in this story, though, is that fat knight of the vale asshole. Someone take him for a one way trip to the moon door, please

 

[The Hawk]

I think we all fully grasp what historical features RR Martin borrowed, but since he also has Dragons and Ice Zombies and a fantasy world on a made up planet where the people never advanced socially or technologically over the course of 1000 years, we can safely say that you cannot presume anything applicable to society in human Medieval times is applicable to RR Martin's fantasy society.

Hence you assuming any sexual/rape concepts you might find in human Medieval history are applicable to RR Martin's fantasy society is false, you cannot assume that, sorry.

Bullshit. You are tremendously WRONG about that. How about the concept of FIRST NIGHT? Where the dominant lord of the realm has a right to take any about to be married woman to bed with him as his "right". Martin's tales about sex and rape are very similar to those which existed in medieval times and actually modern times when you consider what the views are of many current muslims as to the responsibilities of women to their husbands and how women are treated even in this day and age.

 

[nc0gnet0]

I think we all fully grasp what historical features RR Martin borrowed, but since he also has Dragons and Ice Zombies and a fantasy world on a made up planet where the people never advanced socially or technologically over the course of 1000 years, we can safely say that you cannot presume anything applicable to society in human Medieval times is applicable to RR Martin's fantasy society.

Hence you assuming any sexual/rape concepts you might find in human Medieval history are applicable to RR Martin's fantasy society is false, you cannot assume that, sorry.

Actually, if your saying the timeline roughly started at or around the time of the first men and the invasion of the Andels, this would be the rough equivalent of the bronze age, and legend transfers it into the iron age. As to the actual period of time that elapsed between the long night, and current date/time in which the story is set, there is a great deal of uncertainty.

" According to tradition, Jeor Mormont was the 997th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch - according to the legend that the Watch was founded a full 8,000 years ago, when the Wall was allegedly constructed. Samwell Tarly points out that they have no real way of knowing if there have actually been 997 Lords Commander, or even if the Watch is truly 8,000 years old. While reading through the Castle Black library, Samwell says that the most complete list of Lord Commanders he ever found only consisted of 667 names - and he has no way of confirming if dozens if not hundreds of those names were ever real men, or simply legendary figures who were later added into the lists. While Mormont is still considered the 997th Lord Commander, there are simply huge gaps in the list, with allegedly 330 Lords Commander whose names have simply been forgotten. It isn't clear exactly how far back in time an accurate historical count extends: history becomes relatively accurate after the Targaryen Conquest, but it hasn't been stated what number the Lord Commander at the time (Harren the Black's brother) was."

What I am getting at is recorded history suggests that it is closer to 2000-3000 years, and so, things aren't progressing as slowly as you might think.

 

[Ares]

Bullshit. You are tremendously WRONG about that. How about the concept of FIRST NIGHT? Where the dominant lord of the realm has a right to take any about to be married woman to bed with him as his "right". Martin's tales about sex and rape are very similar to those which existed in medieval times and actually modern times when you consider what the views are of many current muslims as to the responsibilities of women to their husbands and how women are treated even in this day and age.

Martin borrows from history, but this does not allow us to simply assume every single societal component of Medieval Europe can be assumed to be applicable to RR Martin's fantasy Westeros.

You can only see what he borrows and accept he borrowed it from history, but assuming other historical societal components are automatically applicable to a fantasy land is incorrect.

The only authority on Westeros society at the end of the day is RR Martin, if he writes it or says it, then you can assume applications of what he says to his world.

You should not assume societal applications of Medieval Europe will 100% apply to RR Martin's constructed fantasy land.

 

[Ares]

Actually, if your saying the timeline roughly started at or around the time of the first men and the invasion of the Andels, this would be the rough equivalent of the bronze age, and legend transfers it into the iron age. As to the actual period of time that elapsed between the long night, and current date/time in which the story is set, there is a great deal of uncertainty.

" According to tradition, Jeor Mormont was the 997th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch - according to the legend that the Watch was founded a full 8,000 years ago, when the Wall was allegedly constructed. Samwell Tarly points out that they have no real way of knowing if there have actually been 997 Lords Commander, or even if the Watch is truly 8,000 years old. While reading through the Castle Black library, Samwell says that the most complete list of Lord Commanders he ever found only consisted of 667 names - and he has no way of confirming if dozens if not hundreds of those names were ever real men, or simply legendary figures who were later added into the lists. While Mormont is still considered the 997th Lord Commander, there are simply huge gaps in the list, with allegedly 330 Lords Commander whose names have simply been forgotten. It isn't clear exactly how far back in time an accurate historical count extends: history becomes relatively accurate after the Targaryen Conquest, but it hasn't been stated what number the Lord Commander at the time (Harren the Black's brother) was."

What I am getting at is recorded history suggests that it is closer to 2000-3000 years, and so, things aren't progressing as slowly as you might think.

In 2,000 years we went from figuring out how to plant crops and make swords to having the internet and a Space Station.

If Westeros were Europe they have been technologically stagnant for like 2,000-8,000 years.... also they have magic and Dragons and Ice Zombies and Westeros is not Europe, so this discussion becomes silly very fast.

Westeros is a fantasy continent on a fantasy planet created by a writer on Earth, you cannot and should not assume anything in Earth history is 100% applicable to Westeros or Game of Thrones simply because the time periods and technology are similar.

 

[number51]

What the hell is the matter with you. It would take a total dummy to not recognize how much Martin has borrowed from medieval practices into his lore. The supposed code of knighthood, chivalry, castles with keeps, arranged marriages for consolidating and increasing a lord's power, etc. It is interesting that in your quest to insult me, you so gravely fuck up even simple things. You really are just a jerk-off not to be taken serious.

Still not a docudrama, it's fiction, I have no idea why I am trying to explain things that are obvious, things everyone else accepts. You are literally the only one that gets everything wrong, all the time. Explaining things to you is a waste of time, and I'm ashamed that I keep forgetting that. Please continue to enjoy this realistic depiction of 1000 AD Earth.

 

[ShiftyDevil]

Not true about Robert and Cersei. I looked it up:



Robert Baratheon was a handsome man and the King of the Seven Kingdoms.

In the series, they portrayed Robert Baratheon as a Fat guy. But this was not complete story of Robert Baratheon. He was a Charming and Strong Warrior.

Now the Cersei and Robert Part :

Though the marriage of Cersei and Robert was a political marriage. At first Cersei was infatuated with the handsome Robert. But as Robert called Lyanna Stark on their wedding night, their love begun to vanish slowly.

And Robert was not a Ideal King he was more interested in Drinking, Whoring and Hunting. And the kingdom was running by the “small council” led by Jon Arryn.(Same man who was responsible for the marriage of Cersei and Robert).

To Sum up all of this:

We can say that, Yes she Loved Him at first, but he did not cared about her(As he Loved Lyanna Stark). And love Vanished(Plus Converted into Hatred).

“Cersei also tells Robert that at the start of their marriage she truly loved him, even after their first boy died, for quitea while. He says he knows, but could never love her back due to his feelings for Lyanna Stark”.

1.2k Views · 3 Upvotes

Robert was the handsome dashing Knight when he over threw the Targaryans. He got old and fat. Both the show, and the books take place well after Robert's rebellions and he's into his fat and drinking phase. So the show matches the books exactly in this case. Source: I didn't need to look it up because I've read the things.

 

[xer0h0ur]

No I'm not saying that. I'm saying I can see her turning into a terrible vindictive cunt. I kind of get the feeling she'll betray Jon eventually. She has spent a lot of time learning from Cersei, LF, and even Ramses.

LF is still whispering in her ear and eventually she'll learn Jon isn't a Stark/Snow but Targaryean.

Just a hunch. I've got no spoiler info I'm going of or anything like that.


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He is still Stark. In fact Ned loved Lyanna very much which would make Jon Sansa's cousin of her father's most loved relative. Of course this is the GoT universe though and the male parentage is the most important. So yes he would be viewed as Targaryen and no longer the Warden of the North.

I honestly am beginning to doubt whether or not they are going to reveal Jon's parentage at all anymore. With Goth Lord Bran Stark emoing out. I don't know what the fuck if at all he's even going to divulge. He did say he needed to speak with Jon. So I am anxiously awaiting that conversation. Will it be strictly business? Will he reveal his parentage to him? Will he reveal it to Sansa as well? Will he reveal it to fucking everyone? Does Littlefinger already know Jon's true parentage and will he use it on Sansa if Bran doesn't spill the beans?

 

[nc0gnet0]

In 2,000 years we went from figuring out how to plant crops and make swords to having the internet and a Space Station.

If Westeros were Europe they have been technologically stagnant for like 2,000-8,000 years.... also they have magic and Dragons and Ice Zombies and Westeros is not Europe, so this discussion becomes silly very fast.

Westeros is a fantasy continent on a fantasy planet created by a writer on Earth, you cannot and should not assume anything in Earth history is 100% applicable to Westeros or Game of Thrones simply because the time periods and technology are similar.

We figured out how to domesticate plants (aka farm) about 12,000 years ago. We discovered metals about 8,000 years ago. We started writing things down about 5,000 years ago. Advancement of civilization is not a linear progression, rather a logarithmic one. I am not arguing that Westeros is advancing at the same rate as we did, rather, they are advancing, and that advancement is not as stunted as you make it out to be.

 

[number51]

We figured out how to domesticate plants (aka farm) about 12,000 years ago. We discovered metals about 8,000 years ago. We started writing things down about 5,000 years ago. Advancement of civilization is not a linear progression, rather a logarithmic one. I am not arguing that Westeros is advancing at the same rate as we did, rather, they are advancing, and that advancement is not as stunted as you make it out to be.

It's safe to say that tech progress in Westeros has been stagnant for thousands of years. When was the last time Earth Tech screeched to halt for thousands of years? It's safe to say not since recorded history.

There is your difference, they have been recording history in Westeros for much longer than we have.

"The recorded history of Westeros extends back over 12,000 years, according to tradition, though the accuracy of the legends and myths that recount much of this history is openly questioned by the maesters of the Citadel, amongst others."
http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

They can't verify the accuracy of the ancient writings anymore than we can with ours.

Humans have been writing for about 5K years. In those 5K years we went from spears to nukes. Westeros has been stuck in sword mode over a much longer period of time. That's pretty fucking stunted.

 

[Tjodalv]

This thread really is glorious.

Actress who plays Daenerys: "...Daenerys and Khal Drogo’s arranged marriage, and the customary rape that followed..."

The Cawk: "Nah, she was definitely raped by her brother, not Drogo."

:hawked:

 

[nc0gnet0]

It's safe to say that tech progress in Westeros has been stagnant for thousands of years. When was the last time Earth Tech screeched to halt for thousands of years? It's safe to say not since recorded history.

There is your difference, they have been recording history in Westeros for much longer than we have.

"The recorded history of Westeros extends back over 12,000 years, according to tradition, though the accuracy of the legends and myths that recount much of this history is openly questioned by the maesters of the Citadel, amongst others."
http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline

They can't verify the accuracy of the ancient writings anymore than we can with ours.

Humans have been writing for about 5K years. In those 5K years we went from spears to nukes. Westeros has been stuck in sword mode over a much longer period of time. That's pretty fucking stunted.

Except the recorded history of westeros does not date back that far, sure some of the ancient scrolls account for thousands of years before they were written, thats not the same thing.

 

[number51]

Except the recorded history of westeros does not date back that far, sure some of the ancient scrolls account for thousands of years before they were written, thats not the same thing.

Okay, years later when they had writing they wrote down stories/legends. Still it does seem like they have been stuck in that same era for a long time. Come on guys printing press?

His world his rules. Maybe too much magic not enough science, like the Repu... nope!

 

[nc0gnet0]

Okay, years later when they had writing they wrote down stories/legends. Still it does seem like they have been stuck in that same era for a long time. Come on guys printing press?

His world his rules. Maybe too much magic not enough science, like the Repu... nope!

Well, it's an interesting discussion, for sure. For one GRRM is pretty sharp, and a student of history. For example. a lot of the inspiration for his novels was the war of Roses. What Sam discovered in the archives at the Wall, and his discovery that the first Lord Commander of the NW didn't appear to have been as long ago as original thought had reason. I wonder if more light will be shed on the matter when Sam starts copying the ancient scrolls he has been tasked with. Seeing how the Targaryen's only invaded westeros in the year 2 bc, and it is now only 300 AC, we know the Targaryen dynasty in Westeros lasted only 300 years, which coincendentally, is when Sam can only fully document the accruacy of recorded history.

"According to tradition, the known history of Westeros extends back over 12,000 years.[1] However, the oldest historic recounts in Westeros were written after the Andals' arrival to the continent, as the First Men used runes for carving on stone. Everything written about the Age of Heroes, the Dawn Age, and the Long Night originates from stories written down by septons thousands of years later. The accuracy of the legends and myths that recount much of this history is openly questioned by the maesters of the Citadel, amongst others.[2]"

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Timeline_of_major_events

 

[The Hawk]

Martin borrows from history, but this does not allow us to simply assume every single societal component of Medieval Europe can be assumed to be applicable to RR Martin's fantasy Westeros.

You can only see what he borrows and accept he borrowed it from history, but assuming other historical societal components are automatically applicable to a fantasy land is incorrect.

The only authority on Westeros society at the end of the day is RR Martin, if he writes it or says it, then you can assume applications of what he says to his world.

You should not assume societal applications of Medieval Europe will 100% apply to RR Martin's constructed fantasy land.

We know a lot about medieval history and can apply quite a bit of it to Martin's view of his story line. Who said anything about it being 100% applicable? I didn't. A person has to be blind and dumb not to see and understand the similarity of Martin's view of the culture of the time he is writing about and aspects of medieval culture.

 

[The Hawk]

In 2,000 years we went from figuring out how to plant crops and make swords to having the internet and a Space Station.

If Westeros were Europe they have been technologically stagnant for like 2,000-8,000 years.... also they have magic and Dragons and Ice Zombies and Westeros is not Europe, so this discussion becomes silly very fast.

Westeros is a fantasy continent on a fantasy planet created by a writer on Earth, you cannot and should not assume anything in Earth history is 100% applicable to Westeros or Game of Thrones simply because the time periods and technology are similar.

Why do you drum on with this 100% applicable nonsense. No one has stated that the two time periods are identical. Other stories written by other authors also take parts of medieval history and include them in their stories. King Arthur's story brings in magic, wizards, potions, etc. Other stories about that age, bring in dragons, witches, etc. as in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

 

[Ares]

We know a lot about medieval history and can apply quite a bit of it to Martin's view of his story line. Who said anything about it being 100% applicable? I didn't. A person has to be blind and dumb not to see and understand the similarity of Martin's view of the culture of the time he is writing about and aspects of medieval culture.

Yes but you went ahead and took concepts of Medieval/feudalism society and assumed it was true for Westeros, you cannot do that.

You cannot "apply quite a bit" of Medieval history to Martin's story.... only Martin can do that, you are not RR Martin, you cannot just say "Oh well Westeros is kinda like Medieval Europe, so I can apply stuff I know about Medieval society to Westeros".

That is what you have been doing, taking historical concepts that Martin DID NOT explicitly borrow and then presumed they are relevant to Westeros.

Idk why im bothering explaining this to you, as you won't understand it.

 

[Ares]

Why do you drum on with this 100% applicable nonsense. No one has stated that the two time periods are identical. Other stories written by other authors also take parts of medieval history and include them in their stories. King Arthur's story brings in magic, wizards, potions, etc. Other stories about that age, bring in dragons, witches, etc. as in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

You have been taking historical concepts and applying them to Westeros as if you can apply 100% of Medieval history to Westeros.

You are too dumb to talk.

 

[The Hawk]

Still not a docudrama, it's fiction, I have no idea why I am trying to explain things that are obvious, things everyone else accepts. You are literally the only one that gets everything wrong, all the time. Explaining things to you is a waste of time, and I'm ashamed that I keep forgetting that. Please continue to enjoy this realistic depiction of 1000 AD Earth.

Spare me your self absorbed egotistical assessment of yourself. YOu are making a stupid argument once again. No one here said that the story is a docudrama, idiot. In your pathetic zeal to insult me, you are literally making a fool of yourself. All that I said was the Martin takes aspects of medieval culture and weaves it into his story. Other authors have done the same in their stories. It is a backdrop that the everyday person has a knowledge of.

 

[The Hawk]

This thread really is glorious.

Actress who plays Daenerys: "...Daenerys and Khal Drogo’s arranged marriage, and the customary rape that followed..."

The Cawk: "Nah, she was definitely raped by her brother, not Drogo."

:hawked:

I actually never said that she was raped by her brother. What I am saying is that it is possible that she was raped by her brother. Clearly she was abused by her brother and he certainly lusted for her. But no writing by Martin describes her of being raped by her brother and people can argue that she was raped on her wedding night by Drogo. That is an open for debate kind of thing. Feminists certainly consider it rape. I've said what I think about it being a sort of cultural thing.