Game of Thrones Thread

[nc0gnet0]

I need to ask the question about Wight Walkers and the whole "They can't swim" thing...

Not sure why this makes sense exactly.

They can run, jump, grapple, fight.... but they cannot swim, impossible?

They can definitely sink to the bottom of a lake and at the very least move around and attach chains to a dead dragon.

They couldn't sink to the bottom of a body of water and walk across it and up the shore on the other side?

I don't really buy this notion that water saves you....

They can also jump off a 200 foot cliff, and get re-animated. And worst they could form a corpse land bridge in the shallows and walk over themselves.

 

[Ares]

House Glover are not peasants and the man they chose to be King bent the knee because of the threat. You would have yo be truly stupid to still downplay the threat.

I truly hope NK attacks House Glover and they request aid and Dany is like **** no. Can't waste lives trying to save stupid people.

I agree this is a human problem but I think we are largely the descendants of humans that were smart enough to chose survival over pettiness when their existence was threatened.

First it was The North and those peasants doing the glaring.

Now it is House Glover, which is made up of Lords and peasants alike.

Ok, let's talk about House Glover since you decided to move the goal posts.

House Glover is far enough South to think they can ride it out and protect themselves much like how Cersei is thinking.

It is dumb and childish, but again they're so far from the threat.... they've not seen it, they've only heard about it and they are clearly dumb/petty.

I am not justifying their actions or attitude, but they are realistic considering the nature of human beings, especially those in the context of this story.

Can we just agree the attitude/pettiness/bullshit you are bitching about with the North is very much realistic to human nature, and also agree it is very much going to harm them in their attempts to survive/beat the Night King?

 

[nc0gnet0]

Yeah see as a viewer, I agree... how could you not... we've seen the Night King and all he can do and the horde he is bringing to their door.

They have not seen it, only heard it, and they are stupid feudal peasants.

They don't grasp that they face extinction or even that they truly face the greatest threat possible.

This is a fundamental human problem.... we see it in our modern humans with regards to climate change lol

I know you think they should be this monolithic unified North that says "**** everything, we gotta fight the Night King" but they aren't....

Your expectations of human beings, especially feudal peasants circa 800-1200 is wildly unrealistic.

Put yourself in the shoes of a Northern peasant who cannot read, never ventures more than a mile or so from his home, and just generally hates anything disturbing his life. Winter is truly coming and you are trying to figure out how to survive it.... have enough food/shelter for you and your family. You heard those Lord fucktards decided on yet another fucking King in the North.... this Jon Snow, he will lead you to whatever.... blah blah you heard it before with dumbass Robb. Oh and now he shows up with a bunch of foreign troops and a foreign Queen....

You don't really know or understand the threat, you are a dumb fucking peasant who will continue to be a dumb fucking peasant until the ice zombies show up.

We can't get people on the same page in a day and age where we can reach a good 90% of people inside of 30 minutes via various digital communication forms if we have enough status/power.... now imagine trying to get feudal peasants on the same page across a giant landmass when they can't read or reason beyond the level of a child most of the time.

This would have some credence if we had seen any questioning by the Northern lords about the seriousness of the threat. What we have been shown though however is they accept the threat as real, and have bought in to the enormity of it as well. And if they needed proof, they have Bran. What has Bran said on the matter? We don't have time for this shit. We don't have time for any of it.

 

[remydat]

He is responsible for Ned and many more people that he and his murderous family killed. Ned was killed because of his incest with his sister.

LOL, now its he and his family, another weak attempt by you to move the goal posts. He is not responsible for Neds death because he didn't kill him, nor did he have him killed. Jamie was vehemently opposed to the killing of Ned Stark, as was Tywin and Cersei. Stop arguing some butterfly effect theory.

Been saying the same thing for 2 years so not sure why you felt the need to rehash. I don't agree with you. Perhaps it is time you get over that fact. Imagine blaming me because you decide to bring up a 2 year old debate. You can watch waiting for Jamie's redemption and I will watch waiting for Jamie to die hopefully in a most gruesome manner.

No, its about a redemption arc, not redemption. A redemption arc is a writing technique in which a character is initially seen as a bad guy or dark, and as the character grows and evolves, he becomes good. it really is that simple. It's not about sitting in judgment about whether or not the sum total of his good deeds somehow make up for his past transgressions. You have a personal belief that attempted murder is a non redeeming sin. I don't have a problem with that. It doesn't change the fact that he has been on a redemption arc. Your inability to separate the two concepts either seriously brings into question your intelligence, or is just more of the same Remy BS, where when your losing an argument, you try to change the argument. Not having it.

Not moving anything. Once again from the start of this debate 2 years ago, I have said Jamie was too blame for his family's misdeeds because he is a coward. He has also directly killed people.

Once again my point has always been Jamie is not being redeemed in my eyes. I am aware of your redemption arc point. I disagree as I did 2 years ago and for the very same reasons.

A redmeption arc is not a redemption arc if the audience does not think the person is redeemed. That is a subjective determination that each of us is entitled to make based on how the story resonates with us.

Time to move on Ncog. Nothing has changed from 2 years ago and nothing will.

 

[Ares]

This would have some credence if we had seen any questioning by the Northern lords about the seriousness of the threat. What we have been shown though however is they accept the threat as real, and have bought in to the enormity of it as well. And if they needed proof, they have Bran. What has Bran said on the matter? We don't have time for this shit. We don't have time for any of it.

Cept just because a Lord accepts something, doesn't ever mean 100% of their people will also agree/accept it.

In this level of tech, you can't even deliver messages to 100% of your people even if they would 100% agree.

Every single society in human history has prejudice and dissent and The North is no different.

Are we really arguing this?

You can't get ten random people in this world to agree to the toppings on a pizza, but you think the North would be monolithic in their acceptance/response to this threat.... how old are you?

 

[remydat]

First it was The North and those peasants doing the glaring.

Now it is House Glover, which is made up of Lords and peasants alike.

Ok, let's talk about House Glover since you decided to move the goal posts.

House Glover is far enough South to think they can ride it out and protect themselves much like how Cersei is thinking.

It is dumb and childish, but again they're so far from the threat.... they've not seen it, they've only heard about it and they are clearly dumb/petty.

I am not justifying their actions or attitude, but they are realistic considering the nature of human beings, especially those in the context of this story.

Can we just agree the attitude/pettiness/bullshit you are bitching about with the North is very much realistic to human nature, and also agree it is very much going to harm them in their attempts to survive/beat the Night King?

I said nothing of peasants. You did. I spoke of the whole North which includes House Glover.

See post 6769. I already conceded to Numbers it consistent. Still a good way to go extinct though.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Your reply is oddly specific considering how vague my challenge was lol

Let's align the analogy enough to be relevant.

If China was supposedly about to be invaded by Russia, and the United States sent 10,000 troops to fight and marched them thru Chinese villages to occupy Chinese territory.... yeah pretty sure they would be glared at.

And yes some extremists might try to kill a few.

EDIT: Also Russia suddenly has ice zombies, an ice dragon, and Putin can throw his magic ice spears like some mutant hybrid of Jay Cutler's arm strength and Payton Manning's accuracy.

The scale of things isnt right though, so to your analogy, which I accept in theory is more akin to this:


If zanzibar was supposedly about to be invaded by Russia, and the United States sent 10,000 troops to fight and marched them thru zanzibar villages to occupy zanzibar territory.... yeah pretty sure they would be glared at.

I don't think they would

 

[nc0gnet0]

Cept just because a Lord accepts something, doesn't ever mean 100% of their people will also agree/accept it.

In this level of tech, you can't even deliver messages to 100% of your people even if they would 100% agree.

Every single society in human history has prejudice and dissent and The North is no different.

Are we really arguing this?

You can't get ten random people in this world to agree to the toppings on a pizza, but you think the North would be monolithic in their acceptance/response to this threat.... how old are you?

You have to separate me from Remy first of all, although we share more in common than you and I on this matter. I have never brought into the discussion how the peasants may or may not feel. My comments have always been directly coupled to the ruling leaders of the houses themselves. How the peasants might feel about it is an entirely different discussion.

 

[Ares]

The scale of things isnt right though, so to your analogy, which I accept in theory is more akin to this:


If zanzibar was supposedly about to be invaded by Russia, and the United States sent 10,000 troops to fight and marched them thru zanzibar villages to occupy zanzibar territory.... yeah pretty sure they would be glared at.

I don't think they would

Agree to disagree then... there's always some subset of people who don't like foreign soldiers marching thru their village.

 

[Ares]

You have to separate me from Remy first of all, although we share more in common than you and I on this matter. I have never brought into the discussion how the peasants may or may not feel. My comments have always been directly coupled to the ruling leaders of the houses themselves. How the peasants might feel about it is an entirely different discussion.

Ok so let's end on this summary then.

1. Yes the Lords of the North as far as we can tell accept the threat of the Night King.

2. No not all the Lords are above being petty about Dany and her foreign soldiers even in the face of the Night King... hence House Glover and Lyanna Mormont.

3. Based on the angry glares of the peasants in the last episode, some subset of the Northern peasants are ignorant of the threat and are being petty/racist/xenophobic over their own survival either in line with their Lords or contrary to them.

4. All of these behaviors are realistic of human beings whether you agree with them or not.

 

[remydat]

Ok so let's end on this summary then.

1. Yes the Lords of the North as far as we can tell accept the threat of the Night King.

2. No not all the Lords are above being petty about Dany and her foreign soldiers even in the face of the Night King... hence House Glover and Lyanna Mormont.

3. Based on the angry glares of the peasants in the last episode, some subset of the Northern peasants are ignorant of the threat and are being petty/racist/xenophobic over their own survival either in line with their Lords or contrary to them.

4. All of these behaviors are realistic of human beings whether you agree with them or not.

Pretty accurate except I think we don't really know what the peasants think or believe so there is a bit of projection there. It could very well be the case that like the Lords they understand the threat and still decide to be petty. Not speaking of you specifically but I find there is a tendency to imagine in stories like these that peasants are some downtrodden class victims of their circumstances when in reality peasants or the poor to be more generally are no different than the rich at times when it comes to being petty, xenophobic, racist or anything else.

You have to separate me from Remy first of all, although we share more in common than you and I on this matter. I have never brought into the discussion how the peasants may or may not feel. My comments have always been directly coupled to the ruling leaders of the houses themselves. How the peasants might feel about it is an entirely different discussion.

I never brought in the discussion peasants. Ares did. My comments were about the North as a whole and at some point Ares starting talking about peasants and I guess assumed that is what we were discussing.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

@number51 is responsible for the last few pages.

 

[Ares]

They can also jump off a 200 foot cliff, and get re-animated. And worst they could form a corpse land bridge in the shallows and walk over themselves.

Or the winter that comes along with them/Night King could freeze water enough to traverse it... or build like iceberg ships... or Night King could just tow a barge of them with his dragon.

I feel like if the Night King were to win on the main landmass and Winter thus kept spreading, the seas would not save anyone... Iron Islands in particular, Night King would figure out how to get his zombies to them and overrun them.

Now I have this image of Night King spearfishing Kraken from his dragon so he can create Wight Kraken that transport the Wights to battle on various islands.

 

[Bears_804]

Now I have this image of Night King spearfishing Kraken from his dragon so he can create Wight Kraken that transport the Wights to battle on various islands.

 

[Bigfoot]

Do you think Bronn will kill Tyrion or Jaime?

I dont think he will; if anything he will die fighting with them

 

[SilenceS]

Thanks for waking up Remy guys

 

[Ares]

I dont think he will; if anything he will die fighting with them

I think Tyrion's "Remember, whatever they pay you... I'll double it" will come into play.

The show will try to make you think Bronn about to do Cersei's bidding, but then he will reveal himself and be like "Remember when you said you'd double it...."

I can't imagine Bronn serving Cersei's interests over Jamie/Tyrion... much less fucking killing Tyrion/Jamie.

Bronn was friends with Tyrion, saved his life, and told if this exact situation ever came up... tell me and ill double the money.

Bronn was also close with Jamie.... both teaching him to fight with his off-hand, and having gone to battle together.

Bronn has no loyalty to Cersei aside from money, and Tyrion planted the seed to counter this situation.

 

[KittiesKorner]

thanks for the predictions, guys. NOT

 

[remydat]

Well, no, for 8,000 years he has been dormant. he hasn't been roaming around looking for the wall, or a way to get past it. His recent awakening was spurred on by a recent event, be it the comet, Bran being born, or something else is unknown. This has been correlated (his awakening) by the Wildlings. Now, I don't know if he was really truly dormant, or just happy to stay in the far North, away from all manor of men, but his activity in the land of men North of the wall is a recent event, and it happened well before he touched bran.

Saw a fan theory that he is a greenseer (theory linked to him possibly being Bran) so he foresaw Dany acquiring dragons and thus laid a trap that would force her to come rescue them.

While there are other means to getting around the wall, those means are more time consuming and would leave them vulnerable to attack so he waited until he could acquire a dragon to destroy the wall and enter en masse.

 

[Ares]

Another random question.

Why hasn't Dany had any kind of saddle built for at least Drogon?

Seems like you could at least have one that hooks around the spikes or wedges in between them.

You could go all the way and lash it around the underside of the dragon, but Dany would have to do it herself cuz Drogon would prolly fucking eat anyone else who tried to do such a thing.

Idk, I would want some kind of saddle or something to anchor me to the dragon so I don't accidentally fall off and die and ruin the fate of Westeros lol