ZOMBIE@CTESPN
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Dec 19, 2012
- Posts:
- 18,211
- Liked Posts:
- 15,542
- Location:
- MICHIGAN
Wtf have you guys done with this thread
Game of Thrones Thread
- Thread starter Rush
- Start date
- Joined:
- Nov 27, 2014
- Posts:
- 17,912
- Liked Posts:
- 2,836
Actually, the longest reunion would be between Jorah and Lady Mormont, as Jorah had already been exiled prior to the start of the show.
The hound was at Wf in season 1. Not sure how much ineraction he had with Bran though.
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 58,235
- Liked Posts:
- 35,298
Discussed the show which I think is the purpose of thread.
- Joined:
- Nov 27, 2014
- Posts:
- 17,912
- Liked Posts:
- 2,836
No, a redemption arc is a writing tool employed by the writer to show character growth. As such, it is up to the writer to decide if the character is on a redemption arc, not you. Disagree all you want. Redefine all you want. Your still wrong. The fact you don't see it just means your not digesting the story in the way the writer intended. Time for you to admit you were wrong.
- Joined:
- Nov 27, 2014
- Posts:
- 17,912
- Liked Posts:
- 2,836
It will make more sense in a few episodes. Jamie is about to become a hero. Which is the exact opposite of the villian he was in season 1. Which is the very definition of a redemption arc. I brought it up for discussion at this time because it is quite obvious he is on trial in the next episode.
I actually thought Remy might admit he was wrong. Everyone else knows he is.
*I did think by know we would be discussing what is in store for jamie in the remainder of the season.
there is strong evidence jamie makes it out alive, or at least until the very last episode
- Joined:
- Sep 12, 2010
- Posts:
- 41,612
- Liked Posts:
- 12,465
Not wholly a hero, no. But the qualities are there and heroic acts have been performed. You are right that he has done bad things under Cersei's influence and good when not under that influence. But it's not for you to say whether the show has shown a redemptive arc or not. You don't have to like it, agree with it, or ever forgive the crimes. Fact is the show has clearly shown him to have a redemptive arc.
Nearly every character, even the most loved, has done bad things. Even the ultra-honorable Ned Stark beheaded a man cause he didn't believe the story he was telling was actually true when, in fact, it was. While I don't think you deny the show has depicted Jaime as having a redemptive arc, at what point do you think he'd gain redemption or do you think he never can? Going to Winterfell to help in the fight was a bold move. Some redemption there, perhaps? What if he were to save lives in the upcoming battle? More redemption there? What if the victim of one of his crimes is totally forgiving with him because he sees he can do far more good than harm as the Living fight for their lives? What if he saves the life of the one he crippled or one of his siblings that his family has long been at odds with? What if he puts down that woman who was a bad influence even though he still loves her but as in the case of the Mad King he finds it necessary to save the entire population? These would all seem to be both heroic and redemptive acts to me. How about you?
- Joined:
- Sep 12, 2010
- Posts:
- 41,612
- Liked Posts:
- 12,465
Kinda looking forward to Jon Snow/Kingslayer reunion. The 2 have not met again since episode 2, after their talk. A lot has happened since. Back then Jaime acted like Jon was throwing his life away by joining the Night's watch. Now Jon has been a King who is leader to the Living in the only war that ever mattered.
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 58,235
- Liked Posts:
- 35,298
This argument is dumb. A redemption arc is a vague term with no dictionary definition so by its very nature is subjective. You don't have ownership over the word to tell people how it should be defined. All we can do is explain how we define the term and then offer our opinion based on our definition. Case in point.
https://hinative.com/en-US/questions/231083
A redemption arc is a story where the character goes through many obstacles and makes up for something bad they have done. For example, a bad guy might be evil at the beginning of a story but by the end of the story he saves the world and becomes good.
If I don't think Jamie has made up for the bad shit he has done then he can't be on a redemption arc. So again, you are arguing the same shit from two years ago. I understand the word is subjective so if that is your opinion then do you. You are being fanatical in refusing to accept the fact the term is vague and trying to demand I adhere to your definition as if you are the final arbiter as to what constitutes a redemption arc.
We disagree on the definition. We have always disagreed on the defintion and you have no standing to claim ownership over how such a subjective and vague term is defined.
Last edited:
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 58,235
- Liked Posts:
- 35,298
Let me put a simple question to you to illustrate my point. If the Night King came right after he killed the Mad King, do we think Jamie would fight against it? My answer is yes so there is no redemptive arc because it is the same character.
The same Jamie who killed the mad king to save thousands would fight the Night King to save a continent. He would do it even if you erased every single story line he has had between killing the mad king and now. So that is not a redemptive arc to me as nothing that happened the past 8 seasons actually impacts what everyone is presuming will be his redemption ie fighting the Night King.
Let's contrast that with say Bronn. If Bronn ends up betraying Cersei, do we imagine he would have done so back in season 1 under the same circumstances? I think the answer is no because Bronn has actually changed from the start of the show based on the relationships he has formed. Now this is a bit of speculation as we haven't seen what Bronn will do but hopefully you get the point.
A proper redemption arc IMHO generally requires the person to essentially arrive at a different conclusion based on the experiences he has had since the book started. Season 1 Jamie makes the same decision as Season 2 Jamie when it comes to fighting the NK for the fate of humanity as the stakes are even higher than when he killed the mad king.
Now you may disagree with how I chose to consider what constitutes redemption but again it is a subjective determination and you are free to define and view it differently.
Last edited:
- Joined:
- Aug 25, 2012
- Posts:
- 16,971
- Liked Posts:
- 10,875
- Location:
- Funk & Wagnalls' porch
My favorite teams
Time to lighten things up a bit.
- Joined:
- Sep 12, 2010
- Posts:
- 41,612
- Liked Posts:
- 12,465
Kinda get your point. Jaime was never as dishonorable as the Kingslayer name implied. It was just that when separated from Cersei more good than bad came from him and when with her and serving her best interests, more bad than good. Even going all the way back to when slaying the mad King, his intentions were good, kill the one who aims to kill all. Still the show does show an arc of sorts that the majority would agree is a redemption arc. His character has changed in small ways along the way which happened to coincide with the long time he spent away from Cersei. Now we see a less smug, more remorseful Jaime. Think we're about to see him do a whole lot of good for both the Starks and the welfare of Westeros in general. This is a change for him as before he wanted to just stay in the background as his world revolved around Cersei. Now he wants to make a difference, do what he knows is right and put his differences with the Starks behind him. When he left Cersei, it was because she'd reached a point he wasn't willing to accept. Maybe the old Jaime would have accepted it but not this time.
- Joined:
- Sep 12, 2010
- Posts:
- 41,612
- Liked Posts:
- 12,465
More on Mel and those symbols. Makes the symbols seem more relevant to the story line than I thought and makes a lot of sense.
- Joined:
- Aug 25, 2012
- Posts:
- 16,971
- Liked Posts:
- 10,875
- Location:
- Funk & Wagnalls' porch
My favorite teams
At 17:30 the guy who wrote the show explaines the symbols.
ZOMBIE@CTESPN
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Dec 19, 2012
- Posts:
- 18,211
- Liked Posts:
- 15,542
- Location:
- MICHIGAN
I said the same thing to my brothers last season about Euron being more a cartoon character then a sinister mofo the book made him out to be
- Joined:
- Aug 25, 2012
- Posts:
- 16,971
- Liked Posts:
- 10,875
- Location:
- Funk & Wagnalls' porch
My favorite teams
I loved the comparison "Book Euron makes tv Euron look like a Disney Pirate Of The Caribbean".
- Joined:
- Sep 12, 2010
- Posts:
- 41,612
- Liked Posts:
- 12,465
Yeah, by far, my least favorite character.
- Joined:
- Jan 4, 2011
- Posts:
- 46,498
- Liked Posts:
- 34,147
- Location:
- Chicago
Ramsay Bolton on screen wasn't much better, tbh
- Joined:
- Aug 25, 2012
- Posts:
- 16,971
- Liked Posts:
- 10,875
- Location:
- Funk & Wagnalls' porch
My favorite teams
So the guy that castrates, murders, and rapes, is worse in the book? What's worse than the shit we saw him do, bad tipper, lot's of puns?
- Joined:
- Jan 4, 2011
- Posts:
- 46,498
- Liked Posts:
- 34,147
- Location:
- Chicago
I meant the way it was acted
- Joined:
- Sep 12, 2010
- Posts:
- 41,612
- Liked Posts:
- 12,465
Think he made for a far better character and was far more sinister and easy to hate, a great villain. Thinking showrunners toned down Euron as to not take any of the villainous affect away from Cersei or in anyway empower her to a less extent. Even while the show is focused, for the next 3 episodes, on the war with the dead, it's still about the Game of Thrones and will end with the war to take Cersei off that throne.
Members online NOW
- Member
- Admin
- Mod
- Donor
- HOF
Staff online NOW
-
bamainatlantaYou wake him up, you keep him up