Game of Thrones Thread

ZOMBIE@CTESPN

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Dany def showing a shitty side to her as time goes on. Wonder when people will start taking notice that are so loyal to her.

It's like, everything is great and I'm the most amazing ruler, but do what I say or die.

Jon is 100% more about the people, but his actions back that up more than her "breaking chains". Feel like that's all she's really done is free slaves and provide an army to support the war against NK.

Her motives seem so selfish yet Jon time and time again so selfless. They are polar opposites. But we can look at their upbringing as well. He had Ned Stark as a father figure probably one of the most honorable people in this series. Who did Dany have? A bunch of manipulators one after the other. Lies after lies after lies for power
 

remydat

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He absolutely was creating the opportunity for Arya to get into the godswood!

I still don't see it. This was after a string of attacks directed at him and again no way Arya could have killed the NK before Jon is killed.

Unless you saying this is like Gendry getting back to Eastwatch, the ravens getting to Dany and her flying back to save Jon last season in that they just ignored any concept of time in favor of dramatic effect.
 

remydat

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Dany def showing a shitty side to her as time goes on. Wonder when people will start taking notice that are so loyal to her.

It's like, everything is great and I'm the most amazing ruler, but do what I say or die.

Jon is 100% more about the people, but his actions back that up more than her "breaking chains". Feel like that's all she's really done is free slaves and provide an army to support the war against NK.

What exactly are we talking about as her shitty side? I don't see it. She came to help Jon when frankly she probably didn't even need his armies to defeat Cersei, she went to the Dothraki's aid when the plot induced stupidity sent them on a suicide mission, and she fought the undead herself while Sansa was in the crypts cowering.

Is Jon more selfless? Sure I can agree with that but I am not seeing anything she has done that strikes me as overly shitty. Just think she is getting a raw deal for being a Targ and because the show may be setting her up to take a fall in favor of Jon.
 

ZOMBIE@CTESPN

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I still don't see it. This was after a string of attacks directed at him and again no way Arya could have killed the NK before Jon is killed.

Unless you saying this is like Gendry getting back to Eastwatch, the ravens getting to Dany and her flying back to save Jon last season in that they just ignored any concept of time in favor of dramatic effect.

So if you listen to jon he isn’t screaming he is saying gooooo goooo. Only person who goes to godswood is Arya. I have to rewatch the rest cause the person who alluded to this theory says you see the ww hair prop up as Arya passes them. Just imagine her being flash pretty much. Bottom line I would like some training with the faceless men lol
 

remydat

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So if you listen to jon he isn’t screaming he is saying gooooo goooo. Only person who goes to godswood is Arya. I have to rewatch the rest cause the person who alluded to this theory says you see the ww hair prop up as Arya passes them. Just imagine her being flash pretty much. Bottom line I would like some training with the faceless men lol

Oh I get what you are saying. Hence why I said unless they just ignored the concept of passage of time like they did earlier in the show.
 

ZOMBIE@CTESPN

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Oh I get what you are saying. Hence why I said unless they just ignored the concept of passage of time like they did earlier in the show.

Yeah they have botched the passage of time multiple times but they don’t care the yuppies excuse that stuff
 

Bears_804

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What exactly are we talking about as her shitty side? I don't see it. She came to help Jon when frankly she probably didn't even need his armies to defeat Cersei, she went to the Dothraki's aid when the plot induced stupidity sent them on a suicide mission, and she fought the undead herself while Sansa was in the crypts cowering.

Is Jon more selfless? Sure I can agree with that but I am not seeing anything she has done that strikes me as overly shitty. Just think she is getting a raw deal for being a Targ and because the show may be setting her up to take a fall in favor of Jon.
Not saying that she is a pieace of crap person. Her actions are more selfish than Jon. She has increasingly become more authoritarian as time has gone on. Her nerves get shot when people don't see eye to eye with her or bend the knee. Which she then threatens with death.

If you can't see that then agree to disagree. Nothing left to talk about there.
 

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This show has gotten unbelievably soft and frankly the writers don't have a damn clue what they were doing! They hype up the White Walkers for 7 seasons and Winter lasts 80 damn minutes. This last episode was the writers trying to get rid of the White Walkers because they messed up in a serious way after Tywin's death when they decided to pivot from a show about people to a show about ice zombies. Arya is one of my favorite characters but having her kill the NK was one of the dumbest endings imaginable. I don't know how the show can go from putting Ned's head on a spike and performing an abortion at the Red Wedding to having Arya survive a Darth Vader style choke hold from the NK. We didn't even get a back story to the White Walkers or anything. Talk about a one dimensional "bad person" villain, which is the exact opposite of what this show got its name for. Also, wtf is wrong with Jon? This guy has to be the worst field commander in the 7 kingdoms right? How the hell do you sit there and think to yourself charging the Dothraki horde right at the Wights was a good idea. This dude can not win a battle for himself and is seriously lacking in the "decision making" department. Dany is also definitely her daddy's daughter and should not be allowed anywhere near the throne. I honestly hated Stannis' character so much but looking back now, he should have ended up with the throne, at least he has a basic understanding of how to command an army. There is honestly nobody left who deserves the throne and maybe that is the point the writers are trying to make but I have no clue Team Winterfell defeats Cersei and the Golden Company with out an army unless they predictably have Arya assassinate her. So much for the Prince that was Promised.
 

ZOMBIE@CTESPN

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I just rewatched it

It is 100% a distraction to get Arya into the godswood when John yells at the dragon. You see the ww hair move as Arya quickly gets to the nk

Another observation bran was warged most of the episode. Was he only the crows or anything else? Can’t tell if he was more influential in other things. I don’t get the point into warging into the crows and doing nothing with that
 

ruprecht

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This show has gotten unbelievably soft and frankly the writers don't have a damn clue what they were doing! They hype up the White Walkers for 7 seasons and Winter lasts 80 damn minutes. This last episode was the writers trying to get rid of the White Walkers because they messed up in a serious way after Tywin's death when they decided to pivot from a show about people to a show about ice zombies. Arya is one of my favorite characters but having her kill the NK was one of the dumbest endings imaginable. I don't know how the show can go from putting Ned's head on a spike and performing an abortion at the Red Wedding to having Arya survive a Darth Vader style choke hold from the NK. We didn't even get a back story to the White Walkers or anything. Talk about a one dimensional "bad person" villain, which is the exact opposite of what this show got its name for. Also, wtf is wrong with Jon? This guy has to be the worst field commander in the 7 kingdoms right? How the hell do you sit there and think to yourself charging the Dothraki horde right at the Wights was a good idea. This dude can not win a battle for himself and is seriously lacking in the "decision making" department. Dany is also definitely her daddy's daughter and should not be allowed anywhere near the throne. I honestly hated Stannis' character so much but looking back now, he should have ended up with the throne, at least he has a basic understanding of how to command an army. There is honestly nobody left who deserves the throne and maybe that is the point the writers are trying to make but I have no clue Team Winterfell defeats Cersei and the Golden Company with out an army unless they predictably have Arya assassinate her. So much for the Prince that was Promised.


I agree with much of this. They dilly dallied for 2 episodes and took the easy route to dismiss the NK. Jon is an idiot when it comes to battle-I submit the Battle of the Bastards as evidence. Arya is not one of my favorite characters (not even close actually), but they have decided to make her the ultimate badass. All 72lbs of her.
They created a compelling figure in the NK and then wasted it, imo.
I liked the Stannis character.
Anyway, they have everybody talking now (good and bad) and we are along for the ride regardless of how they mangle it.
 

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I just rewatched it

It is 100% a distraction to get Arya into the godswood when John yells at the dragon. You see the ww hair move as Arya quickly gets to the nk

Another observation bran was warged most of the episode. Was he only the crows or anything else? Can’t tell if he was more influential in other things. I don’t get the point into warging into the crows and doing nothing with that
I think he already knew how this was all going to play out which is why he gave Arya the valerian steel dagger in S7. My guess is he was checking out King's Landing to see what Cersei has planned for them
 

ZOMBIE@CTESPN

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Well the writers of the show ran out of source material. And they aren’t as talented as grrm. They might have been good at taking source material and making it possible in show format but once that was over it is what it is. Blame fat **** for not finishing his work to go work on prequels
 

ruprecht

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Well the writers of the show ran out of source material. And they aren’t as talented as grrm. They might have been good at taking source material and making it possible in show format but once that was over it is what it is. Blame fat **** for not finishing his work to go work on prequels

I do, having waited years for him to wrap shit up.
 

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I agree with much of this. They dilly dallied for 2 episodes and took the easy route to dismiss the NK. Jon is an idiot when it comes to battle-I submit the Battle of the Bastards as evidence. Arya is not one of my favorite characters (not even close actually), but they have decided to make her the ultimate badass. All 72lbs of her.
They created a compelling figure in the NK and then wasted it, imo.
I liked the Stannis character.
Anyway, they have everybody talking now (good and bad) and we are along for the ride regardless of how they mangle it.
I mean what is the show actually about? Is it a show about people will do anything for power and title or is it a show about how people would rather stay in their comfort zones and in this case squabble about who gets to sit on the throne? The writers apparently could not choose one or the other so they decided to kinda sorta make it about both and then **** one of the best shows in a while in the process bc they have no plot line
 

Ares

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This show has gotten unbelievably soft and frankly the writers don't have a damn clue what they were doing! They hype up the White Walkers for 7 seasons and Winter lasts 80 damn minutes. This last episode was the writers trying to get rid of the White Walkers because they messed up in a serious way after Tywin's death when they decided to pivot from a show about people to a show about ice zombies. Arya is one of my favorite characters but having her kill the NK was one of the dumbest endings imaginable. I don't know how the show can go from putting Ned's head on a spike and performing an abortion at the Red Wedding to having Arya survive a Darth Vader style choke hold from the NK. We didn't even get a back story to the White Walkers or anything. Talk about a one dimensional "bad person" villain, which is the exact opposite of what this show got its name for. Also, wtf is wrong with Jon? This guy has to be the worst field commander in the 7 kingdoms right? How the hell do you sit there and think to yourself charging the Dothraki horde right at the Wights was a good idea. This dude can not win a battle for himself and is seriously lacking in the "decision making" department. Dany is also definitely her daddy's daughter and should not be allowed anywhere near the throne. I honestly hated Stannis' character so much but looking back now, he should have ended up with the throne, at least he has a basic understanding of how to command an army. There is honestly nobody left who deserves the throne and maybe that is the point the writers are trying to make but I have no clue Team Winterfell defeats Cersei and the Golden Company with out an army unless they predictably have Arya assassinate her. So much for the Prince that was Promised.

There was no "pivot" by the writers.... they were following RR Martin's story.

I think your dislike of say the course of events in the last 2-3 seasons is a symptom of how the show writers did have to pivot from translating RR Martin's published works into TV seasons/episodes, to translating unfinished Winds of Winter manuscript into TV seasons/episodes, and now season 7 and 8 where they had to pivot to fabricating TV seasons/episodes simply from an outline he gave them of how he intended the story to wrap up.

When a guy like RR Martin writes manuscripts in the thousands of pages, which are edited into books that are hundreds of pages, and all you have to do is translate it into TV, that looks great!

When he writes hundreds of pages of manuscript for an unfinished book, and you have to kinda fill in the gaps both where you diverged from him on the show and where he simply hasn't truly finished writing, that is challenging, but still produces solid TV.

When he babbles a vague outline of the remainder of a plot that has dozens and dozens of threads which in many cases were dead ends or deceptions, and you have to take notes and then try to do all the original writing of every event, every conversation, every fight/battle.... that is extremely challenging and it shows in the quality/depth of the content they have produced for seasons 7 and 8.

Look, they were more/less promised by him that the final 2 books would be written and probably published by the time they got 5-6 seasons deep.

He didn't even deliver a full manuscript of Winds of Winter, much less the final book (Something about Spring... A Dream of Spring?)... so it isn't shocking the show had to narrow the plot to a handful of threads and finish them out as best they could.

I still don't excuse some of their bonehead writing as I've discussed, but they didn't really pivot the writing.... RR Martin did... he forced them into writing the ending for him, and it shows, in a bad way unfortunately.
 

ZOMBIE@CTESPN

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I think he already knew how this was all going to play out which is why he gave Arya the valerian steel dagger in S7. My guess is he was checking out King's Landing to see what Cersei has planned for them

Well I have a few mysteries that I think mean something

-what did Tyrion and bran talk about in episode 2. They shared a look before the battle a very strange look with meaning

-when Melisandre left Westeros where did she go? Do the god of light worshipers have a temple? Is it the house of faceless men?

-and lastly what was bran doing being warged the whole episode

Those are somethings I would like answered but likely just over thinking things and are just not important anymore
 

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Well the writers of the show ran out of source material. And they aren’t as talented as grrm. They might have been good at taking source material and making it possible in show format but once that was over it is what it is. Blame fat **** for not finishing his work to go work on prequels
I agree to an extent. It has been well documented that GRRM has creative disagreements with the writers of the show and when they ran out of material to copy and paste they should have asked George for creative direction instead of being arrogant enough to think they could do a good enough job on their own
 

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There was no "pivot" by the writers.... they were following RR Martin's story.

I think your dislike of say the course of events in the last 2-3 seasons is a symptom of how the show writers did have to pivot from translating RR Martin's published works into TV seasons/episodes, to translating unfinished Winds of Winter manuscript into TV seasons/episodes, and now season 7 and 8 where they had to pivot to fabricating TV seasons/episodes simply from an outline he gave them of how he intended the story to wrap up.

When a guy like RR Martin writes manuscripts in the thousands of pages, which are edited into books that are hundreds of pages, and all you have to do is translate it into TV, that looks great!

When he writes hundreds of pages of manuscript for an unfinished book, and you have to kinda fill in the gaps both where you diverged from him on the show and where he simply hasn't truly finished writing, that is challenging, but still produces solid TV.

When he babbles a vague outline of the remainder of a plot that has dozens and dozens of threads which in many cases were dead ends or deceptions, and you have to take notes and then try to do all the original writing of every event, every conversation, every fight/battle.... that is extremely challenging and it shows in the quality/depth of the content they have produced for seasons 7 and 8.

Look, they were more/less promised by him that the final 2 books would be written and probably published by the time they got 5-6 seasons deep.

He didn't even deliver a full manuscript of Winds of Winter, much less the final book (Something about Spring... A Dream of Spring?)... so it isn't shocking the show had to narrow the plot to a handful of threads and finish them out as best they could.

I still don't excuse some of their bonehead writing as I've discussed, but they didn't really pivot the writing.... RR Martin did... he forced them into writing the ending for him, and it shows, in a bad way unfortunately.
Hasn't George been on record talking about some major disagreements he has with the show? After all ASOIAF is his baby in a sense and they really should have relied on his input more IMO
 

Ares

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I agree to an extent. It has been well documented that GRRM has creative disagreements with the writers of the show and when they ran out of material to copy and paste they should have asked George for creative direction instead of being arrogant enough to think they could do a good enough job on their own

Problem with that notion is RR Martin has his own vision of how this story goes and they butchered much of it in the name of making it a reasonable TV show.

They simply couldn't open and follow the number of threads he did in his books.

I get why they had to do it, but you really can't come back after ripping up alot of his story and go "Now finish our version of the story plz"

GRRM don't want to be responsible for a hacked together version of the ending of his story, the show writers and producers have to own that.
 

Ares

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Hasn't George been on record talking about some major disagreements he has with the show? After all ASOIAF is his baby in a sense and they really should have relied on his input more IMO

See my last post.... they diverged from him because his story had way too many threads to follow in a TV show.

But as a writer, I can tell you, it would rustle the **** outta me.... I would be irritated they were butchering my story in some aspects and have the attitude "You guys wanted to take over and rip it apart, you finish it"
 

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