Game of Thrones Thread

[WestCoastBearsFan]

They did and he complied, that is common knowledge.

Yes but they did not take his advice on numerous occasions and it is showing. it is also common knowledge that George is not exactly completely sold on the direction of the show

 

[nc0gnet0]

I know, I chose to say The Vale rather than The Eyrie because every knight/man-at-arms in their Kingdom doesn't hangout with Robin Arryn in the Eyrie itself.

My main point was I see no evidence Dany would have somehow gotten Knights of the Vale from Winterfell or The Vale (Eyrie) to Dragonstone.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The Vale could have left some forces in the Vale ( I said Eyrie) or Dany could have left some Dothraki at Dragonstone. I didn't mean to say that some of the Vale forces were at Dragonstone.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Kills his love for his family-assuming Dany wants to hurt one of the starks

I know it’s not his legit family now that we have facts but there is so much damn foreshadowing. So I look to what bran was saying to Theon which is no matter what we are/were family. Even Jon called Ned our father to Theon although that was before he found out his lineage

My brother threw me a twist the betrayal might be someone involving all 3.....but who could that be?

Why do you keep saying the Starks are not Jon's legit family? They raised him, and he had just as much Stark blood as Sansa, Bran or Arya pumping through his veins.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Why, because his mom was a Stark instead of his dad? He is a blood relation to them and he was raised with them, Jon is a hell of a lot more of a Stark than Theon ever was. Jon is not killing Dany, no intentional betrayal, the closest thing will be what @Ares said earlier.



Jon is a fucking boy scout, if they blow that up and turn him into a villain at the very end that will be show breaking, stupid, and really piss off the fans.

Unless Dany go's bat-shit crazy like the mad king, and Jon is forced to make a decision just like jamie did and he has to kill dany. I hate the ending, but could see playing out that way.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Yes but they did not take his advice on numerous occasions and it is showing. it is also common knowledge that George is not exactly completely sold on the direction of the show

I will grant you that, but it has been said and confirmed by GRRM that the show and the books will correlate on the major plot points and the ending (who survives). Now, it's up too anyone to guess what should be considered a major plot point, such as, is who kills the NK a major plot point? I do realize that the NK is not a "thing" in the books, but that is not to say that a similar figure head will arise as the leader of the WW's.

 

[Ares]

In all fairness, Grrm had agreed to have the books finished before D & D caught up to him. It was GRRM that didn't meet those deadlines that forced D & D to finish the story on their own. GRRM has only himself to blame.

IMO butchering his story a bit is just part of distilling such a large/complex story into a TV show.

Whether GRRM finished the books or not, they began butchering his story while following his published works.

Where was the Myrcella's story in Dorne with Arys Oakheart? Arianne Martell?

Where was Mya Stone when Lady Stark went to the Eyrie?

Where was Quentyn Martell's story when he takes a cadre across the sea to bring Dany back to Dorne?

Where was Griff/Young Griff aka Jon Connington and an exiled Aegon Targaryen whom return to Westeros with the Golden Company to reclaim the Iron Throne and Jon Connington's Lordship?

I could go on and on, but they butchered his story apart many many times, simply because you can only tell so much of this story in a TV show.

I fully understand their need to do it, but from GRRM's perspective they still butchered the **** out of his story.

You have to be able to see both sides.

 

[nc0gnet0]

IMO butchering his story a bit is just part of distilling such a large/complex story into a TV show.

Whether GRRM finished the books or not, they began butchering his story while following his published works.

Where was the Myrcella's story in Dorne with Arys Oakheart? Arianne Martell?

Where was Mya Stone when Lady Stark went to the Eyrie?

Where was Quentyn Martell's story when he takes a cadre across the sea to bring Dany back to Dorne?

Where was Griff/Young Griff aka Jon Connington and an exiled Aegon Targaryen whom return to Westeros with the Golden Company to reclaim the Iron Throne and Jon Connington's Lordship?

I could go on and on, but they butchered his story apart many many times, simply because you can only tell so much of this story in a TV show.

I fully understand their need to do it, but from GRRM's perspective they still butchered the **** out of his story.

You have to be able to see both sides.

Oh I agree, but as you stated, it was a necessity, otherwise the show would have lasted 30 years, which would lead to a whole host of other problems (a 65 year old actor playing Jon snow, etc).

 

[number51]

Unless Dany go's bat-shit crazy like the mad king, and Jon is forced to make a decision just like jamie did and he has to kill dany. I hate the ending, but could see playing out that way.

The only way that could happen is if they do a huge time jump in the last 3 episodes, flash forward a few years and Dany has descended into madness like her dad. If the last 3 take place in less than a year Dany losing her shit would also be show breaking, she can be a *****, but no sign of her being a psycho, total deus ex machina move. I really hope they are above that.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Couldn't Jon Snow still be the prince that was promised without having to have killed the NK? Basing that off of the NK being discussed above not being prominent in the books and people wondering why he was brought back from the dead.

They've done such a build up of his character. I think he still has a huge role to play in the story unfolding.

He was the leader of the army of the living. If you look at it as the Prince that was promised will lead the people to victory over the dead, it could work.

The more I think about it the heroes of this saga are the Starks. Not the Lannister’s, not the targaryans etc but the Starks. Jon isn’t a stark though.......i think that is why bran will be the ruler. Where Arya role was to Assasinate the nk jon was brought back to life to deal with Dany

No doubt. In the beginning, Starks were dropping like flies. Now the pack survives and will surely rule.

What exactly are we talking about as her shitty side? I don't see it. She came to help Jon when frankly she probably didn't even need his armies to defeat Cersei, she went to the Dothraki's aid when the plot induced stupidity sent them on a suicide mission, and she fought the undead herself while Sansa was in the crypts cowering.

Is Jon more selfless? Sure I can agree with that but I am not seeing anything she has done that strikes me as overly shitty. Just think she is getting a raw deal for being a Targ and because the show may be setting her up to take a fall in favor of Jon.

Jon's integrity is above all others, the kind of man you'd want to rule which is why he has in spite of the fact he never wanted to. I don't have a problem with Dany other than her demanding everybody and their mother bend the knee or die. I love her character but that 1 fault is a major one so I can see that spoiler being posted coming to fruition. What I'd rather see and expected to see was her aligning her thinking more to Jon's way. People are influenced most by those closest to them, would stand to reason she'd get over all that "bend the knee" shit and be more like her nephew... who she fucked.

Problem with that notion is RR Martin has his own vision of how this story goes and they butchered much of it in the name of making it a reasonable TV show.

They simply couldn't open and follow the number of threads he did in his books.

I get why they had to do it, but you really can't come back after ripping up alot of his story and go "Now finish our version of the story plz"

GRRM don't want to be responsible for a hacked together version of the ending of his story, the show writers and producers have to own that.

Will we ever know what his initial version was gonna be? Highly doubt it. Will he ever finish? Don't think the effort's there and the visceral fat will surely catch up to him faster than the will to finish the books.

Is everyone just saying this like it is something that will happen because some ass hat on reddit said it, or is it for some other reason?

I get that distinct impression.

Spoiler

Seems like all have seen the spoiler mentioned by nc0gnit0... even those that pretend to hate spoilers. In a way, I could see it happening not only after seeing episode 3 but long before the season started, the actress portraying Dany said they had her do some crazy shit. And the show runners have made comments about the ending in a way that makes me think more fans than not are not going to like it at all. There was also a picture from the shooting that was posted, maybe 6 months ago, that was said to be Jon stabbing Dany. It wasn't an angle you could really tell he was stabbing her so who knows? I kinda blew it off thinking it just doesn't fit the way I envisioned the story going.

It is one of these prophesy things from the books, I believe.

When Dany is in Qarth someone (House of the Undying?) tells her she will endure 3 betrayals.

She has endured two supposedly, so the third one must be coming, and people think Tyrion will be the one to betray her.

I personally imagine Varys betraying her if anyone.

One for blood, one for gold, one for love. Hell, maybe Jon does stab her. ?‍

In all fairness, Grrm had agreed to have the books finished before D & D caught up to him. It was GRRM that didn't meet those deadlines that forced D & D to finish the story on their own. GRRM has only himself to blame.

HBO threw millions and millions at him and he lost interest in completing his work. Human nature.

 

[nc0gnet0]

The only way that could happen is if they do a huge time jump in the last 3 episodes, flash forward a few years and Dany has descended into madness like her dad. If the last 3 take place in less than a year Dany losing her shit would also be show breaking, she can be a *****, but no sign of her being a psycho, total deus ex machina move. I really hope they are above that.

I agree.

 

[nc0gnet0]

He was the leader of the army of the living. If you look at it as the Prince that was promised will lead the people to victory over the dead, it could work.
No doubt. In the beginning, Starks were dropping like flies. Now the pack survives and will surely rule.
Jon's integrity is above all others, the kind of man you'd want to rule which is why he has in spite of the fact he never wanted to. I don't have a problem with Dany other than her demanding everybody and their mother bend the knee or die. I love her character but that 1 fault is a major one so I can see that spoiler being posted coming to fruition. What I'd rather see and expected to see was her aligning her thinking more to Jon's way. People are influenced most by those closest to them, would stand to reason she'd get over all that "bend the knee" shit and be more like her nephew... who she fucked.
Will we ever know what his initial version was gonna be? Highly doubt it. Will he ever finish? Don't think the effort's there and the visceral fat will surely catch up to him faster than the will to finish the books.
I get that distinct impression.

Spoiler

Seems like all have seen the spoiler mentioned by nc0gnit0... even those that pretend to hate spoilers. In a way, I could see it happening not only after seeing episode 3 but long before the season started, the actress portraying Dany said they had her do some crazy shit. And the show runners have made comments about the ending in a way that makes me think more fans than not are not going to like it at all. There was also a picture from the shooting that was posted, maybe 6 months ago, that was said to be Jon stabbing Dany. It wasn't an angle you could really tell he was stabbing her so who knows? I kinda blew it off thinking it just doesn't fit the way I envisioned the story going.

One for blood, one for gold, one for love. Hell, maybe Jon does stab her. ?‍
HBO threw millions and millions at him and he lost interest in completing his work. Human nature.

There is no arguing that the show made GRRM a very very rich man. And while I know his books were incredibly successful by themselves, the show brought him mainstream. He seems more interested in collecting his fees for ever ****-con under the sun. And your right, human nature.

 

[WestCoastBearsFan]

I will grant you that, but it has been said and confirmed by GRRM that the show and the books will correlate on the major plot points and the ending (who survives). Now, it's up too anyone to guess what should be considered a major plot point, such as, is who kills the NK a major plot point? I do realize that the NK is not a "thing" in the books, but that is not to say that a similar figure head will arise as the leader of the WW's.

I think my biggest problem is that show's version of how we got to these "major plot points" are going to completely different and likely far worse than the books (if GRRM ever feels like writing again). The attention to detail and the complex personal relationships with multiple layers have all gone away since the writers lost the ability to copy and paste. If there is a NK equivalent in the books I can promise you he will not be the flat, over hyped, and frankly useless "bad person" villain we got in S8. Not to mention their shameless sell out of the signature GOT brutality that we can kill your favorite character at any time for some stupid Disney happy ending. For example, Jon should have died at least 5-10 times by now??

 

[remydat]

Kills his love for his family-assuming Dany wants to hurt one of the starks

I know it’s not his legit family now that we have facts but there is so much damn foreshadowing. So I look to what bran was saying to Theon which is no matter what we are/were family. Even Jon called Ned our father to Theon although that was before he found out his lineage

My brother threw me a twist the betrayal might be someone involving all 3.....but who could that be?

Well Tyrion could betray for blood ie family, gold ie gets paid as well and for love because he loves say Sansa.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The Vale could have left some forces in the Vale ( I said Eyrie) or Dany could have left some Dothraki at Dragonstone. I didn't mean to say that some of the Vale forces were at Dragonstone.

Think show runners confirmed that Dothraki basically done in the show.

Basically used as canon fodder in the end.

 

[remydat]

IMO butchering his story a bit is just part of distilling such a large/complex story into a TV show.

Whether GRRM finished the books or not, they began butchering his story while following his published works.

Where was the Myrcella's story in Dorne with Arys Oakheart? Arianne Martell?

Where was Mya Stone when Lady Stark went to the Eyrie?

Where was Quentyn Martell's story when he takes a cadre across the sea to bring Dany back to Dorne?

Where was Griff/Young Griff aka Jon Connington and an exiled Aegon Targaryen whom return to Westeros with the Golden Company to reclaim the Iron Throne and Jon Connington's Lordship?

I could go on and on, but they butchered his story apart many many times, simply because you can only tell so much of this story in a TV show.

I fully understand their need to do it, but from GRRM's perspective they still butchered the **** out of his story.

You have to be able to see both sides.

Well you could have told the full story. Just would have taken more episodes.

Oh I agree, but as you stated, it was a necessity, otherwise the show would have lasted 30 years, which would lead to a whole host of other problems (a 65 year old actor playing Jon snow, etc).

Not really. A standard network TV show has 24 episodes in a season. More than enough to tell this story in the same eight seasons. You would just have had to sacrifice on budget most likely.

 

[remydat]

Jon's integrity is above all others, the kind of man you'd want to rule which is why he has in spite of the fact he never wanted to. I don't have a problem with Dany other than her demanding everybody and their mother bend the knee or die. I love her character but that 1 fault is a major one so I can see that spoiler being posted coming to fruition.

Jon didnt have to bend the knee. She also didnt make Jamie bend the knee.

Again the only people I recall this happening to recently was the Tarleys who had just fought a war and tried to kill her and then refused to recognize her claim. You dont survive long in a hostile world by leaving enemies alive who refuse to submit.

Are there others you are referring to?

 

[remydat]

I think my biggest problem is that show's version of how we got to these "major plot points" are going to completely different and likely far worse than the books (if GRRM ever feels like writing again). The attention to detail and the complex personal relationships with multiple layers have all gone away since the writers lost the ability to copy and paste. If there is a NK equivalent in the books I can promise you he will not be the flat, over hyped, and frankly useless "bad person" villain we got in S8. Not to mention their shameless sell out of the signature GOT brutality that we can kill your favorite character at any time for some stupid Disney happy ending. For example, Jon should have died at least 5-10 times by now??

The plot armor has increased exponentially on this show. To think we went from Ned, Catelyn and Robb Starks deaths to Samwell and every major character alive after being overrun by the undead is amazing.

 

[WestCoastBearsFan]

The plot armor has increased exponentially on this show. To think we went from Ned, Catelyn and Robb Starks deaths to Samwell and every major character alive after being overrun by the undead is amazing.

They went from putting heads on sticks, killing pregnant women, killing a son in front of his mother, and a father burning his own daughter alive to absolutely no main characters dying in the "biggest battle in cinematic history". What a joke. I mean ffs they could have at least had Tyrian and Sansa kill themselves down in the crypts like we all thought they would but nope the now apparently Princess who was Promised had to have the cheesiest death in a while

 

[Bears_804]

Jon didnt have to bend the knee. She also didnt make Jamie bend the knee.

Again the only people I recall this happening to recently was the Tarleys who had just fought a war and tried to kill her and then refused to recognize her claim. You dont survive long in a hostile world by leaving enemies alive who refuse to submit.

Are there others you are referring to?

She wants total domination from the throne. If you want to argue she didn't outright threaten death, then so be it. If you don't bend the knee she views you as an enemy. Now what does she do to enemies? What would she do to people that didn't support her as the queen of the seven kingdoms? Let them just live peacefully ever after creating their own kings and ruling their own lands without recognizing her?

I don't see that going over very well.

 

[remydat]

She wants total domination from the throne. If you want to argue she didn't outright threaten death, then so be it. If you don't bend the knee she views you as an enemy. Now what does she do to enemies? What would she do to people that didn't support her as the queen of the seven kingdoms? Let them just live peacefully ever after creating their own kings and ruling their own lands without recognizing her?

I don't see that going over very well.

So Lincoln wanted total domination of the South? If Texas wanted to secede when Obama got elected or California because of Trump, do you think they are allowed to do so?

All nations generally fight to maintain control over their lands so not sure your point. Whether that fight is considered good or not depends on how the nation conducts its business and nothing from Dany thus far suggests she is an evil ruler. Her offer to Jon was not total domination. It was for them to carry on as they had been doing for several hundred years now.

 

[Bears_804]

So Lincoln wanted total domination of the South? If Texas wanted to secede when Obama got elected or California because of Trump, do you think they are allowed to do so?

All nations generally fight to maintain control over their lands so not sure your point. Whether that fight is considered good or not depends on how the nation conducts its business and nothing from Dany thus far suggests she is an evil ruler. Her offer to Jon was not total domination. It was for them to carry on as they had been doing for several hundred years now.

You can't compare a fictional world where a woman with her tits pushed up rules with dragons vs Abraham Lincoln and real world issues.

She would have eventually taken the North by force if John refused to bend the knee.