Game of Thrones Thread

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

Been busy at work idk if it was posted but this battle looks so much more epic in the light

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bju1ep

 

[remydat]

Anyways, here is how I think the Game of Thrones should end.

Several times when Dany asks people that knew him about Rhaegar, the response is that he was the finest man they knew to the point people tolerated the mad king's rule on the basis that a Golden era would ensue once Rhaegar ascended to the throne.

Then Rhaegar threw it all away for love. Had he and Lyanna admitted their love Robert's Rebellion does not happen. Or if they had simply come to the realization that their love was not meant to be then Robert's Rebellion does not happen. Jon appears to have inherited his father's goodness. He also appears to have inherited his father's fatal flaw of allowing love to interfere with his judgment. I suspect he would give up his right to the throne for love ie Dany.

I think then at some point Dany will reflect on the stories she has heard about Rhaegar and come to realize that Jon does represent the best of them of won't allow him to give up the throne for love.

To me that would represent the best outcome given the arcs these characters have been on and also represent them learning from the mistakes of the past.

Of course it being GoT, I doubt this happens.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Anyways, here is how I think the Game of Thrones should end.

Several times when Dany asks people that knew him about Rhaegar, the response is that he was the finest man they knew to the point people tolerated the mad king's rule on the basis that a Golden era would ensue once Rhaegar ascended to the throne.

Then Rhaegar threw it all away for love. Had he and Lyanna admitted their love Robert's Rebellion does not happen. Or if they had simply come to the realization that their love was not meant to be then Robert's Rebellion does not happen. Jon appears to have inherited his father's goodness. He also appears to have inherited his father's fatal flaw of allowing love to interfere with his judgment. I suspect he would give up his right to the throne for love ie Dany.

I think then at some point Dany will reflect on the stories she has heard about Rhaegar and come to realize that Jon does represent the best of them of won't allow him to give up the throne for love.

To me that would represent the best outcome given the arcs these characters have been on and also represent them learning from the mistakes of the past.

Of course it being GoT, I doubt this happens.

I don't think they could have announced their love. She was betrothed to Robert. Choosing another was not an option. Look what that did for Rob Stark.

Interesting stuff with the comparison to Rhaegar and Jon. I'm sure Dany sees the obvious likeness and has since the beginning. Remember when Dany and Jon first met. Remember Dany had been told Rhaegar did not like fighting but learned to do it well because it was necessary. When Jon is allowed to mine for Dragon glass, the 2 talk. Jon mentions how Tyrion likes to talk. Dany says we all like to do what we're good at. Jon says, "I don't". Dany gives that look like *you sound like my brother*

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

That would be awful.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Except they were beholden just to a different Targ ie Robert. If the North intended to be free of their obligations to the throne then they would have set independence as a condition for siding with Robert. They did not. The North were still ostensibly under Robert's control. Robert does not have a Trace of Targ blood. He is cousins with the Mad King and next to Viserys and Dany had the highest claim to the throne (Jon's claim being unknown).

You just don't get it. Roberts grandmother was a targ. He was not cousins with The mad King, he was cousins with Rhaegar. The line of succession after his conquest ran through the Baretheon line of his grandfather, not the targaryan line of his grandmother. The fact that he had a small amount (25%) Targaryan blood played only a minor factor in deciding who of the three (Jon Arryan, Ned Stark, or Robert) were to be named King.

That is how the Maesters justified the Rebellion. It was a conflict between the Main Targ house and a branch house. In addition to the Mad King's father and Robert's grandmother being siblings, the founder of the Baratheon house was the half brother of Aegon himself so for all intents and purposes the Baratheon house is in fact Targ. Orys simply didn't take Targ as his last name as all of Aegon's other brothers and sisters because he was a bastard but by blood they are Targ. This would be like saying Gendry is not a Baratheon because he changed his last name to Jones due to being Robert's bastard. That is not how blood/family ties work. By blood Gendry and his descendants are Baratheon even if his last name changes. Likewise, by blood the Baratheons are Targ because their founder was in fact the brother of the founder of the Targ dynasty.

Orys was only the rumored bastard of Aegon, so that holds zero water in the argument.

I am aware of Jon's statements

That's all you need to know. Jon does not feel that he is beholding to Dany, AT ALL, because of her lineage. Now, it will be interesting to see how he feels about it since he was informed he too is a Targ. It will actually make him a hypocrit if he thinks his lineage gives him claim to the crown (without conquest that is).

but in the end, Jon sided with Dany.

Yes, he did. And as such, as so far as Jon is concerned, Dany should be queen, should she be victorious by conquest, not because of her lineage. I will give you the fact most others will not feel this way, and see Jon as the rightful heir, but for the moment I am just stating how Jon should feel about it all.

The North rebelled against the Lannisters whom they owed no loyalty as the Lannister's claim to the throne is actually founded on incest and false parentage.

In the show, Rob's motivation was not based on the lannisters claim to the crown (btw at the time it was Joffrey on the throne, and his parentage was in question, but not proven.) but the injustice in the beheading of Ned Stark. Robb wanted Joffrey's head, he had no desire for the crown.

edit. retracted

 

[nc0gnet0]

That doesn't really complicate things at all. Before the Europeans there was no United States, just land controlled by various Native American tribes. The Targ Dynasty is about as old as the United States so this would be like saying Native Americans being in control of America 300 years ago complicates the US today.

That's nothing at all like saying that and is so far out in left field I don't know where to begin. In order for it to be relevant, the indians would have to overthrow the US government, so go back and try again.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Anyways, here is how I think the Game of Thrones should end.

Several times when Dany asks people that knew him about Rhaegar, the response is that he was the finest man they knew to the point people tolerated the mad king's rule on the basis that a Golden era would ensue once Rhaegar ascended to the throne.

Then Rhaegar threw it all away for love. Had he and Lyanna admitted their love Robert's Rebellion does not happen. Or if they had simply come to the realization that their love was not meant to be then Robert's Rebellion does not happen. Jon appears to have inherited his father's goodness. He also appears to have inherited his father's fatal flaw of allowing love to interfere with his judgment. I suspect he would give up his right to the throne for love ie Dany.

I think then at some point Dany will reflect on the stories she has heard about Rhaegar and come to realize that Jon does represent the best of them of won't allow him to give up the throne for love.

To me that would represent the best outcome given the arcs these characters have been on and also represent them learning from the mistakes of the past.

Of course it being GoT, I doubt this happens.

I actually kind of agree with you on your end game.

A few caveats though. The tourney in which Rhaegar gave Lyanna the Rose, many thought that this would be an excuse for the 7 kingdoms to come together and declare the Mad King unfit for rule and appoint Rhaegar the king, right then and there. At this point, the mad king had not left the castle in several years. But the Mad King got whiff of this rumor, and did actually attend, and to make matters worse, Rhaegar met Lyanna, and all other plans got put on hold.

 

[Houston]

Beautiful.

 

[remydat]

Ncog

1. Your claim was that he only had a trace of Targ. Having 25% of something is not a trace. You are using the term incorrectly. Cousins are not trace relatives. They are one of the closest bonds relatives can have. And yes I meant cousins with Rhaegar. The point was that is a close relation not trace.

2. Yes it was rumored because he was a bastard. I am not saying it was used to justify his becoming King. I am saying the Baratheon's are in fact Targs. Orys was described as Aegon's one true friend and champion. I think it is pretty obvious that the reader is intended to accept the rumor as actually being true.

3. I never claimed that Jon feels he is beholden. I am saying the North never sought independence under Targ rule. They were not fighting for independence in Robert's Rebellion. They were fighting because they mistakenly believed Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna Stark and because the Mad King was too stupid to mediate the dispute and get to the truth and Rhaegar and Lyanna didn't admit the truth. The North did not gain independence as a result of Robert's Rebellion.

4. I am not saying Robb's reasons were because of lineage. I am saying the North owed the Lannisters no loyalty period because they are not the rightful rulers from a dynastic succession standpoint. Individual characters can feel how they want. But the entire premise for the rebellion was incorrect.

5. The point about the Native Americans is that no one gives a shit about 300 years ago. If Native Americans rose up and fought for independence from the USA, people aren't going to claim it is their land. What will determine the outcome is whether they win then they get to write history. So this idea that the North deserves freedom based on the fact they were free 300 years ago is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether they can win that freedom or not and their King bent the knee.

It is obvious that people gain the throne via conquest. My point was the North never sought independence from the Targ dynasty. They overthrew one Targ dynasty for personal concerns not independence. Personal concerns that are in part incorrect. And then they pledged themselves to another group of Targs even if their last name is Baratheon.

 

[remydat]

I don't think they could have announced their love. She was betrothed to Robert. Choosing another was not an option. Look what that did for Rob Stark.

Interesting stuff with the comparison to Rhaegar and Jon. I'm sure Dany sees the obvious likeness and has since the beginning. Remember when Dany and Jon first met. Remember Dany had been told Rhaegar did not like fighting but learned to do it well because it was necessary. When Jon is allowed to mine for Dragon glass, the 2 talk. Jon mentions how Tyrion likes to talk. Dany says we all like to do what we're good at. Jon says, "I don't". Dany gives that look like *you sound like my brother*

Betrothals are not absolute. Of course, admitting the truth would piss of the Barratheon's but it is unlikely the rebellion happens as they aren't going to get support from other houses simply because Lyanna chose the heir to the Iron Throne. Ned Stark for example would likely not have supported Robert's war if he understood that Lyanna actually loved Rhaegar.

Dany is probably thinking in her head how Jon being his son makes sense now and just too afraid to admit it. I hope at some point she does.

 

[Sculpt]

Did anyone else think the last ep was a bit too long...

repetitious in some of the fight and inside the castle chase arounds?

Don't get me wrong... it was good, but they didn't need to make it 82 minutes. 60 would have been fine, unless they wanted to add more character soap scenes.

 

[Hammer]

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Did anyone else think the last ep was a bit too long...

repetitious in some of the fight and inside the castle chase arounds?

Don't get me wrong... it was good, but they didn't need to make it 82 minutes. 60 would have been fine, unless they wanted to add more character soap scenes.

I think the length and action was good even if they could have provided better lighting as shown in bearzombie's post with this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bju1ep
Only other problem was it was a bit anticlimactic. At one point NK is baddasses as **** coming through the dragon fire unscathed and giving the grin, then he's taken out by a little girl. C'mon, man!!!

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

I think I’m more pissed I was wrong and missed the foreshadowing of her being the goat lol

This right here is how my brother reacted to the episode absolutely hated the episode. Epic rant lol

 

[Sculpt]

I think I’m more pissed I was wrong and missed the foreshadowing of her being the goat lol

This right here is how my brother reacted to the episode absolutely hated the episode. Epic rant lol

That's your brother's youtube rant, or just like how your brother reacted?

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

That's your brother's youtube rant, or just like how your brother reacted?

No no he is a doctor so won’t partake in any social media anything. This is just a good description of his reaction to the episode. He sent this to me earlier today lol

 

[Sculpt]

I think the length and action was good even if they could have provided better lighting as shown in bearzombie's post with this.

Only other problem was it was a bit anticlimactic. At one point NK is baddasses as **** coming through the dragon fire unscathed and giving the grin, then he's taken out by a little girl. C'mon, man!!!

Well, that's a fair opinion... = p But I was actually a little fatigued at a few of the repetitious scenes of battle and 'chasing around the castle'.

I didn't mind the ending at all. I dug it. Good place to end it. But that needed to be tightened up a bit.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

I think you have to get over the fact Arya killed death

Little people often do extraordinary things in movies/shows. Hobbits defeating all odds to save middle earth is a great example of it

But the lighting absolutely was shit. If they wanted to create the effect that’s fine do it when the Dothraki are eliminated then go to a normal setting for the audience

 

[nc0gnet0]

Ncog

1. Your claim was that he only had a trace of Targ. Having 25% of something is not a trace. You are using the term incorrectly. Cousins are not trace relatives. They are one of the closest bonds relatives can have. And yes I meant cousins with Rhaegar. The point was that is a close relation not trace.

Not even close. It is still legal in most states to marry your cousin. From a genetics standpoint, marrying your cousin only carries a 2-3% increase in risk. Not even sure where you come up with the "bond" statement. Many only meet their cousins once or twice a year.

Ory's married Betha Blackwood, thus Rhaelle was only 50% targ to start. She them married Ormund, a non targ again, losing her right by name and resulting in offspring that were 25% targ blood. They had one child, Steffon who had 25% targ blood, and did not carry the targaryan name. Steffon then married another non targ, Cassanna Estermont, and the resultant children now had 12.5% targ blood. Robert was one of those children. So Robert has 12.5% targ blood and is twice removed from the Targaryan name. I stand by my trace argument. Robert's rebellion was not fought because Robert felt he had a claim to the throne do to his lineage, it was only offered up after the fact. You loose.

2. Yes it was rumored because he was a bastard. I am not saying it was used to justify his becoming King. I am saying the Baratheon's are in fact Targs. Orys was described as Aegon's one true friend and champion. I think it is pretty obvious that the reader is intended to accept the rumor as actually being true.

Rumors should not be presented as fact. Debate 101. Baretheons are not targs, they are Baretheons, end of story. Silliness. Gendry, If he were to be legitimized, would be the heir because of his Baretheon heritage, not his targ lineage.

3. I never claimed that Jon feels he is beholden. I am saying the North never sought independence under Targ rule. They were not fighting for independence in Robert's Rebellion. They were fighting because they mistakenly believed Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna Stark and because the Mad King was too stupid to mediate the dispute and get to the truth and Rhaegar and Lyanna didn't admit the truth. The North did not gain independence as a result of Robert's Rebellion.

Jon speaks for the North, or did you miss that part? I never said the North claimed independence, so another straw man.

4. I am not saying Robb's reasons were because of lineage. I am saying the North owed the Lannisters no loyalty period because they are not the rightful rulers from a dynastic succession standpoint. Individual characters can feel how they want. But the entire premise for the rebellion was incorrect.

Again, debate 101. Rumors are not to be presented as fact. Joffrey's real parents was never proven, your suggesting that we the viewer and they the characters are privy to the same information. Failed debate 102.

5. The point about the Native Americans is that no one gives a shit about 300 years ago. If Native Americans rose up and fought for independence from the USA, people aren't going to claim it is their land. What will determine the outcome is whether they win then they get to write history. So this idea that the North deserves freedom based on the fact they were free 300 years ago is irrelevant. What is relevant is whether they can win that freedom or not and their King bent the knee.

Deserves? Huh? what? What is relevant is if they can win, or negotiate, their independence.

It is obvious that people gain the throne via conquest. My point was the North never sought independence from the Targ dynasty. They overthrew one Targ dynasty for personal concerns not independence. Personal concerns that are in part incorrect. And then they pledged themselves to another group of Targs even if their last name is Baratheon.

And my point was that whether or not they originally sought independence is of little consequence. Stop inserting the independence argument, it's stupid and another made up Remy argument. Your trying to combine two argument into one to make a weak claim.

the two arguments

1) Does the North feel that the Targaryan's have a right by blood to the crown?

The answer is quite clearly No, they do not. Jon could not have been any more clear on that, so why you continue this like a 3rd grader is beyond me.

2) Did the North seek independence from the crown in either the war of 5 kings or Robert's rebellion?

No, they did not. They were opposed to the current ruler, but never were seeking independence. This is a recent development.

 

[ruprecht]

I was disappointed with the end to the Night King....

Same here.