Garza To Rangers -- Olt, Edwards, Grimm to Chi (Post 607)

[nwfisch]

we really don't know the parameters of the trade at this point, just speculation as to whom is being discussed.

And that speculation is showing me that the Cubs are going to lose this trade like the Rays did 2+ years ago.

 

[FirstTimer]

And that speculation is showing me that the Cubs are going to lose this trade like the Rays did 2+ years ago.

Long term the Rays might still win the deal. Chris Archer could end up being the real deal. He's really come along.

 

[nwfisch]

Long term the Rays might still win the deal. Chris Archer could end up being the real deal. He's really come along.

Well considering Garza will probably be off the Cubs in 2013...and Archer is still on the Rays...yeah I'd say the Rays win.

 

[FirstTimer]

Well considering Garza will probably be off the Cubs in 2013...and Archer is still on the Rays...yeah I'd say the Rays win.

Then how did the Rays lose the trade 2 years ago?

 

[nwfisch]

Then how did the Rays lose the trade 2 years ago?

Because Garza was pitching for the Cubs at a solid level.

 

[FirstTimer]

Because Garza was pitching for the Cubs at a solid level.

But,
Well considering Garza will probably be off the Cubs in 2013...and Archer is still on the Rays...yeah I'd say the Rays win.
...


...
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[nwfisch]

I guess its the pessimistic Cub fan in me, but I just don't see how the team gets better trading Garza, especially looking at the names involved in potential talks.

 

[FirstTimer]

I guess its the pessimistic Cub fan in me, but I just don't see how the team gets better trading Garza, especially looking at the names involved in potential talks.

I think a lot of it has to do with what Garza wants to be paid in his extension

 

[nwfisch]

I think a lot of it has to do with what Garza wants to be paid in his extension

I know that, I still am not enthused by the names or players being brought forward.

There's risk in maintaining Garza, not only for the money, but more importantly his health. That's why I don't think the Cubs have much (any) leverage in this situation. I don't see a team giving 2-3 nice prospects for Garza for a 2+ month rental. It seems like stupid overpay deadline deals have went the way of the dodo bird.

We'll see what happens.

 

[dabynsky]

Fun fact, Chris Archer has already thrown more shutouts for the Rays than Matt Garza has for the Cubs.

Anyways, the have been a huge number of different packages that have been speculated about so far. We will see what is settled on upon finally, but I feel much better about the return for Matt Garza now then I did a month ago.

 

[dabynsky]

Cubs Den is saying that one of the holdups is the fact that Cubs are insisting on getting Luke Jackson in the deal and that Texas is balking.

http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2013/07/matt-garza-to-texas-likely-today/

 

[SilenceS]

Action Jackson or tell them to go eff themselves.

 

[SilenceS]

@ESPNBruceLevine: Mr Matt Garza on my flight to Denver. Not traded yet!

@ESPNBruceLevine: Garza told me he has not heard a thing from the Cubs .

@ESPNBruceLevine: Garza said he was originally set to pitch on Saturday but was told Monday instead.

 

[SilenceS]

Oh and I wouldn't count my chickens with Archer. His ERA looks nice but all the numbers behind him scream luck. He still has high base on balls. His K rate is really low for him. His BABIP is unsustainable. He is still young, but he isn't lighting the world on fire by any means.

Hak Ju Lee is the one that I always thought could be something. The Rays have to see how he turns out when he comes back from injury. The rest was garbage.

 

[dabynsky]

Oh and I wouldn't count my chickens with Archer. His ERA looks nice but all the numbers behind him scream luck. He still has high base on balls. His K rate is really low for him. His BABIP is unsustainable. He is still young, but he isn't lighting the world on fire by any means.

Hak Ju Lee is the one that I always thought could be something. The Rays have to see how he turns out when he comes back from injury. The rest was garbage.

I am hardly stating Chris Archer is going to be a Cy Young candidate, but they have six years of a high upside arm that is performing well right now. So to sit here and say that the Rays definitively lost the trade is silly. Hak-ju Lee was the guy I was bemoaning losing at the time of the trade as well. For all those that wanted to move Castro off of SS he was actually a guy that could do that with his glove.

 

[KBIB]

I'm higher on Olt than I am Ramirez, but not by much. Ramirez has pitched much better this year than last year, although he's spent this season at AA. If the Cubs do end up going with a package of Olt, Ramirez and Edwards, they must've been extremely underwhelmed with what other teams offered them. You could assume that Boston and Texas would've been the most desperate teams given their injury issue in the rotation.

I am open to trading Garza, but that's a horrible package. Two 25 year old prospects and a guy who is 155 pounds would be the key piece and he is really far from helping the Cubs.


If the offers aren't good, then don't trade him. Its that easy.


CHAMPS!!!

 

[SilenceS]

I am hardly stating Chris Archer is going to be a Cy Young candidate, but they have six years of a high upside arm that is performing well right now. So to sit here and say that the Rays definitively lost the trade is silly. Hak-ju Lee was the guy I was bemoaning losing at the time of the trade as well. For all those that wanted to move Castro off of SS he was actually a guy that could do that with his glove.

Whats your definition of high upside? I find him to be no better than maybe a 3 if he hits his potential. He has control issues. He isn't a kid anymore. He will be 25 before season ends.

 

[dabynsky]

Whats your definition of high upside? I find him to be no better than maybe a 3 if he hits his potential. He has control issues. He isn't a kid anymore. He will be 25 before season ends.

I think 3 isn't a terrible thing. I wish the Cubs had more guys capable of being 3s in the system that were anywhere near close to producing. The control issues are real, but the guy also strikes a ton of guys out. That is the upside which if he could cut down on the walks he could be more than that 3. We shall see what he becomes but the stuff means there is upside there.

 

[SilenceS]

I think 3 isn't a terrible thing. I wish the Cubs had more guys capable of being 3s in the system that were anywhere near close to producing. The control issues are real, but the guy also strikes a ton of guys out. That is the upside which if he could cut down on the walks he could be more than that 3. We shall see what he becomes but the stuff means there is upside there.

I will say that it was between him and McNutt on who was going. The Rays got the better one. Damn! Also, remember when people were in an uproar when Derosa was traded.(At least on CBS) Archer was one of the guys. Hendry was smart with that trade. Derosa never really produced again after that.

 

[dabynsky]

I will say that it was between him and McNutt on who was going. The Rays got the better one. Damn! Also, remember when people were in an uproar when Derosa was traded.(At least on CBS) Archer was one of the guys. Hendry was smart with that trade. Derosa never really produced again after that.

DeRosa is the only guy Hendry ever sold high on. Wasn't the idea that the Cubs were going to use those prospects to flip for Peavy, but Crane put the kibosh on that because they had frozen the Cubs payroll essentially?

Hendry made some great trades in his time here. Unfortunately a lot of his free agent deals didn't work out with combined a lack of impact talent coming from the minors meant three years in a row of declining results and time to move on.

Back to the topic at hand, seems like it is Rangers at this point. Perhaps Buchholz news will break later that might force Boston to get more involved, but I think they have real fear of losing any deal with the Cubs from a PR standpoint.