Greatest Player in your NBA history?

RamiTheBullsFan

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If Malone was intimidated he DEFINITELY doesn't get the nod over Kobe...who isn't intimidated by anything on the basketball court...

There were games where Kobe used to completely kill the Lakers with his ball-hogging and selfishness. Let's not pretend as though he did not have his flaws... his poor-shooting performances throughout his time in the Finals are evidence of that.
 

FirstTimer

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My original point was that nobody here can tell me that Kobe Bryant was flat out better than Karl Malone.
I can.

Kobe Bryant is/was flat out better than Karl Malone.

Utah wasn't supposed to win those series in the first place.

The second go around the Jazz were pretty much felt to be dead even with Chicago. Utah was the #1 overall seed and at worst the series was a coin flip. The Bulls weren't really necessarily "favored"
 

houheffna

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There were games where Kobe used to completely kill the Lakers with his ball-hogging and selfishness. Let's not pretend as though he did not have his flaws... his poor-shooting performances throughout his time in the Finals are evidence of that.

He has flaws...but he wasn't intimidated by anybody...including Jordan's Bulls...that goes back to Kobe as a teenager...
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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I can.

Kobe Bryant is/was flat out better than Karl Malone.



The second go around the Jazz were pretty much felt to be dead even with Chicago. Utah was the #1 overall seed and at worst the series was a coin flip. The Bulls weren't really necessarily "favored"

That's your opinion. But you can't really deny that Malone was the dominant defender of the two.

We are talking about guy A who can average:
37 points, 7 rebounds, and 6 assists on 46% shooting.

vs. guy B who can average:
30 points, 11 rebounds, and 5 assists on about 53% shooting.

It's tough to say that Player A is better; especially when you consider his own struggles in the playoffs.

And yeah, I know there were a lot of fools who said that Utah would beat the Bulls in 1998. But there wasn't a lot of rationality behind that thought process. The Bulls were obviously the better team going into the series. Most of it had to do with people saying the Bulls would be tired after surving Indiana in 7 games and the Jazz having all of that rest after a long lay-off. The Bulls were the rightful favorites in that '98 series despite not having the home-court advantage.

Something tells me that you laughed at the people who thought the Jazz would win, too...
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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He has flaws...but he wasn't intimidated by anybody...including Jordan's Bulls...that goes back to Kobe as a teenager...

Hell, Iverson wasn't intimidated by anything either. In fact, he came out and said that he didn't respect Michael Jordan because he thought he could beat him. Does that mean AI>Malone? I don't think so.

Dennis Rodman is probably the most athletic bodied PF in NBA history... if you had to fight through his tactics on the boards and defense, head-to-head, you would be intimidated, too. Not to mention when those other 4 guys the Bulls rolled with were all pretty damn good defenders, too.
 

FirstTimer

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That's your opinion. But you can't really deny that Malone was the dominant defender of the two.

We are talking about guy A who can average:
37 points, 7 rebounds, and 6 assists on 46% shooting.

vs. guy B who can average:
30 points, 11 rebounds, and 5 assists on about 53% shooting.
That ignores the obvious position difference.

By your logic you could say that Guy B: Malone is better than Jordan because even Jordan only shot around 50% for his career and never put up those rebounding stats.

That's an asinine way to look at the comparison...."blind resume"


And yeah, I know there were a lot of fools who said that Utah would beat the Bulls in 1998. But there wasn't a lot of rationality behind that thought process.
Completely incorrect.

The Jazz had beaten the Bulls twice in the regular season and had won more games during the season in general.

Neither team was really favored by much...if at all. Going in it was one of the most evenly matched Finals matchups at that time.

It's shocking how bad your recollection of that series is.



Something tells me that you laughed at the people who thought the Jazz would win, too...

Nope.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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I remember that series quite well. But I also remember the Bulls starting out very slowly that season because Pippen was out for 35 games.

They ended the season strong and went into the playoffs pretty healthy. But they did have a scare towards the end of the series where Rodman pretty much disappeared and then Pippen hurting his back on a dunk on the first play of Game 6.

The Bulls healthy were a much better team than the Jazz. And at the beginning of the series, there was not much inclination to believe that the Bulls would not be.
 

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RamiTheBullsFan

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You really obviously don't since Pippen was healthy for both regular season meetings the Bulls lost.




Except most predictions had that series going 7 games.

Well, those predictions were wrong. The Bulls were clearly the better team in that series and Game 3 was evidence of that... 96-54 destruction.

And I understand that losing both games against Utah was the reason the Bulls lost the tie-breaker to get home-court advantage in that series. But it's hard to give regular season games so much weight. I don't think the 3-0 record CHI has over MIA matters at all right now. And that 0-2 record vs. UT back then doesn't matter much either.
 

FirstTimer

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Well, those predictions were wrong.
Ok. And the predictions were a Stockton three pointeer from being right and having a Game 7.

What's your point?

I don't think the predictions also assumed Malone would curl up in the fetal position for 4 games and down the stretch of game 6.

Saying "Utah wasn't expected to win those series in the first place" implies Chicago was...when that wasn't completely the case. Most saw the series as a coin flip.
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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What's your point?

My original point was that I don't think that Kobe Bryant is a lock in the "top 10 players" discussion. Malone was one of those 10 names that I said you could make a case for over Kobe. Granted- I didn't feel as comfortable saying Malone>Kobe over those other nine names>Kobe. So I see where you are coming from.
 

houheffna

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Hell, Iverson wasn't intimidated by anything either. In fact, he came out and said that he didn't respect Michael Jordan because he thought he could beat him. Does that mean AI>Malone? I don't think so.

Dennis Rodman is probably the most athletic bodied PF in NBA history... if you had to fight through his tactics on the boards and defense, head-to-head, you would be intimidated, too. Not to mention when those other 4 guys the Bulls rolled with were all pretty damn good defenders, too.

First and foremost...Malone was NOT intimidated by Rodman or anybody else that I remember. Secondly, on Kobe, I agree with Jalen Rose. Kobe is not Jordan, but he is the remix. I would like to see that Iverson quote too...I really don't remember him saying he didn't respect Michael Jordan...
 

RamiTheBullsFan

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First and foremost...Malone was NOT intimidated by Rodman or anybody else that I remember. Secondly, on Kobe, I agree with Jalen Rose. Kobe is not Jordan, but he is the remix. I would like to see that Iverson quote too...I really don't remember him saying he didn't respect Michael Jordan...

I was a little off with the quote, but here it is:

Back in 1996, Michael Jordan told Allen Iverson “If you don’t respect anyone in this league, you have to respect us (referring to the Bulls)." Iverson replied: “I don’t have to respect anybody.”
 

scottiepippen1994

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Dailymotion - 227's YouTube SCOTTIE PIPPEN #33-NBA-Power & Grace Part III - a Sports & Extreme video As I read this thread there is one very important player that is not mentioned...SCOTTIE PIPPEN.........????????????....I would put Scottie Pippen right behind Jordan as a top player of all time in the catagory of impact on a team...Certainly a top small forward of all time....He was a player that played multiple positions at the same time..(The Oscar Robertson of his era)....Not only was he probabely one of the top defenders of all time, but very good at getting his teammates involved with the offensive game..He could score himself very well but his greatest impact was how he made his teams better overall....He also was a forward with a point guard mentality. As far as comparing him to Jordan, just think of the 1994 season..The yearbefore our record was 57-25....in the first season without Jordans presents, Scottie lead his team to 55 wins and if not for the worst playoff call in history(east semifinals game 5-Hue Hollins) he would of probabely won a title the first year without his airness....Imagine what that would of done to jordans legacy....A conspiracy???????....After gutting the Bulls team further that summer (horacegrant, scottwilliams,billcartwright,johnpaxson,etc etc....) , Scottie then lead his team in every single team catagorty from 1994-95t season.......With this said, I have o put Scottie Pippen at number 2 for best all time player.....A player that makes the whole team go as a unit is the most valuable thiiing a player can bring to a game.......SCOTTIE PIPPEN.......P.s, he also was cheated out of a Jordanless championship in 2000(game 7 Lakers-+blazers).....A man truely cheated in the history books to protect Jordans Legacy....He even got screwed out of a decent statue that should of been as big as Jordans outside of the U.C ...
 

scottiepippen1994

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[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykYBfA79O38]YouTube - ‪Scottie Pippen - Out of the Dark‬‏[/ame]
Ill take Scottie Pippen on my team before anyone in the League today...
 

AE23

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yeah, Pippen is def top 50 of all time, getting overlooked (in this thread, lol) will happen when your playing next to arguably the G.O.A.T
 

houheffna

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Nobody is overlooking Pippen...he just isn't as good a player as Kobe, Lebron, Wade...guys like that. And there was a guy who came after him who would have been on the alltime list had he stayed healthy...Grant Hill...no doubt about that.

Pippen is the greatest perimeter defender ever in my opinion. But offensively, he lags behind the top guys quite a bit.
 

scottiepippen1994

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Nobody is overlooking Pippen...he just isn't as good a player as Kobe, Lebron, Wade...guys like that. And there was a guy who came after him who would have been on the alltime list had he stayed healthy...Grant Hill...no doubt about that.

Pippen is the greatest perimeter defender ever in my opinion. But offensively, he lags behind the top guys quite a bit.
He doesn't lag behind those other players offensively that much...He didn't have to score 30 points a night with Jordan on his team...Plus he made sure others score....Pippen could score in every way that there was to score when needed1 on 1 against any of the players mentioned in this thread, he would defensively shutt them down so they can't score there average...which means he wins.....
 

houheffna

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He doesn't lag behind those other players offensively that much...He didn't have to score 30 points a night with Jordan on his team...Plus he made sure others score....Pippen could score in every way that there was to score when needed1 on 1 against any of the players mentioned in this thread, he would defensively shutt them down so they can't score there average...which means he wins.....

When I say lag behind...he can't score with Lebron, Wade or Kobe...not even close. Pippen would never have been a 30ppg guy with efficiency. He was not on that level.
 

FuninDaSun

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How about the best team? If that's the case, I say the fab 5 out of Michigan.... They got rid of those short shorts trend...
 

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