Greatest team ever/Greatest bulls team ever

[scottiepippen1994]

So Pippen is the main reason the Bulls won their titles?

I don't think Rami and Hou are taking away what Pippen did, thery're putting him in his rightful place as a #2 player in those title runs.

With Jordan on those teams, of course Pippen was #2.
I never said he wasn't .

Consider this, if you put Jordan on any NBA team in history, he would be #1.
If Jordan was on the Celtics, Bird would be #2.
If you put Jordan on the Lakers, Magic would be #2.
If you put Jordan on the Rockets, Hakeem is #2.
If you put Jordan on the Jazz, Malone is #2.
If you put Jordan on the Knicks, Ewing is #2.
If you put Jordan on Dallas Mavericks, Dirrk is #2 And so on......You see what I'm getting at?????
If Jordan isn't on those Bulls teams, Pippen is #1.
Simple math sir.

 

[eternityw]

Not every player available to read the game in every moment and be successful on both sides on the floor... Jordan and Pippen was not only talented but they read the game perfectly and faster then their opponents. That is one of the reasons why bulls won 6 tittles in 90s. i see it that way. So Mj or Pip easily could be #1 players in any team of any era because they know what the game is all about and how to win it.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Wrong!!!!!!
The 1994 Bulls are an example of a team that lost the greatest player to ever play the game of basketball and still remain contenders defying major odds, and only losing 2 more games than the season before.....

I never claimed otherwise. I merely implied that the 1998 Bulls would have been contenders without Pippen too.

That is a team with big heart that got cheated with one fateful Hue Hollins call..The 94 team did not really struggle in the playoffs...They swept the first round and took the best defensive team in the east to 7 games.

That was a questionable call, but the Bulls should have been able to overcome it if they were truly the better team. A couple of those wins in that series vs. NY were comeback victories at home. It seems to me that is a very classic kind of struggling- just as I claimed.

If not for 1 major shift changing call, the 94 Bulls go to the ECON finals and destroy the Pacers taking them into the finals...

a) You don't know that the Bulls still would have won the series if that call had gone differently.

b) Even if they did win the series, the Pacers would have been no push-over.

And can't nobody here tell me the Bulls didn't hold the Pacers card that whole season......

Guess who "we" swept in the regular season last year- MIAMI! Yet, "we" lost to them in five games.

The Cavs lose there best player and fall to the bottom of the map..

the 2009 and 2010 Cavs were teams designed to have success in the regular season and not much more. Their only real weapon was LeBron James and had about 9 or 10 vital roleplayers.

After James left, Mo Williams was hurt, Shaq left, Ilgauskas left, Varejao was out the entire year, Jamario Moon was hurt, and so was Antawn Jamison.

That team going from #1 to #30 in the regular season had a lot more to do with the injuries than LeBron's departure.

The 2 teams cannot be compared...Get it right sir.....

LeBron James had a bunch of role players while the Bulls had Pippen and Grant with a bunch of roleplayers. And each team had a lot of depth, which helped them win in the regular season, but didn't have enough star power to win deep in the playoffs.

Blam- just successfully compared them.

It is very disturbing how the same 2 forum members have been working tirelessly all summer long to discredit Pippen over and over and over again with nothing really to stand on...Sounds like personal Pippen hate to me...WOW guys, WOW !!!!!

This summer, I have said that Pippen was the best perimeter defender of all-time and said that he is probably a top 5 SF. How is that discrediting him?

The real issue is you, and a couple of others, are overrating the hell out of Pippen.

What Pippen did that year was lead that team...

to a second round exit. Much like LeBron James last year. Derrick Rose led his team to a playoff exit to last year.

I'm sure you would agree that, in itself, doesn't make Rose and LeBron all-time greats.

With no warning, he was asked to fill the Shoes of Jordan and he did a hell of a job. That was a burden only elites could have handled. And the pressure of him being called "the heir to Jordan" had to be heavy as he basically became the league ambassador.

Pippen was an elite defender but wasn't an elite offensive player. He was a viable option. He was never a great team leader. His role was to be a number 2 man and he did a hell of a job.

If Jordan isn't on those Bulls teams, Pippen is #1.
Simple math sir.

Pippen could never dream of leading a team to a title. He is simply not good enough.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

I never claimed otherwise. I merely implied that the 1998 Bulls would have been contenders without Pippen too.



That was a questionable call, but the Bulls should have been able to overcome it if they were truly the better team. A couple of those wins in that series vs. NY were comeback victories at home. It seems to me that is a very classic kind of struggling- just as I claimed.



a) You don't know that the Bulls still would have won the series if that call had gone differently.

b) Even if they did win the series, the Pacers would have been no push-over.



Guess who "we" swept in the regular season last year- MIAMI! Yet, "we" lost to them in five games.



the 2009 and 2010 Cavs were teams designed to have success in the regular season and not much more. Their only real weapon was LeBron James and had about 9 or 10 vital roleplayers.

After James left, Mo Williams was hurt, Shaq left, Ilgauskas left, Varejao was out the entire year, Jamario Moon was hurt, and so was Antawn Jamison.

That team going from #1 to #30 in the regular season had a lot more to do with the injuries than LeBron's departure.



LeBron James had a bunch of role players while the Bulls had Pippen and Grant with a bunch of roleplayers. And each team had a lot of depth, which helped them win in the regular season, but didn't have enough star power to win deep in the playoffs.

Blam- just successfully compared them.



This summer, I have said that Pippen was the best perimeter defender of all-time and said that he is probably a top 5 SF. How is that discrediting him?

The real issue is you, and a couple of others, are overrating the hell out of Pippen.



to a second round exit. Much like LeBron James last year. Derrick Rose led his team to a playoff exit to last year.

I'm sure you would agree that, in itself, doesn't make Rose and LeBron all-time greats.



Pippen was an elite defender but wasn't an elite offensive player. He was a viable option. He was never a great team leader. His role was to be a number 2 man and he did a hell of a job.




Pippen could never dream of leading a team to a title. He is simply not good enough.

Yet you still don't get the memo.
Its understandable because you were too young to remember.
To argue over somthing you didn't witness consistanly back then is kind of insulting.

And no, the Bulls were not championship contenders without Pippen in 1998, just a slightly above 50p team that struggled with Jordan having to do everything kind of like the 1980s pre Pippen ..

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Yet you still don't get the memo.
Its understandable because you were too young to remember.
To argue over somthing you didn't witness consistanly back then is kind of insulting.

And no, the Bulls were not championship contenders without Pippen in 1998, just a slightly above 50p team that struggled with Jordan doing having to do everything kind of like the 1980s pre Pippen ..

The Bulls certainly would have been title contenders in 1997-98 even if Pippen never played a single minute.

I know all about 1993-94. I know basketball better than you give me credit for. Anything that happened since Larry Bird or Magic Johnson came into the league, I am quite familiar with.

Here's a fun fact: Pippen never led a team to a championship. Nor could he have done so, realistically. There has only been one player not as good as Pippen to ever lead a team to an NBA championship. And that man was Chauncey Billups- who was the benefit of having 4 other borderline all-stars on his team, and a Karl Malone injury in the Finals that helped him get there.

Name me a team that Pippen could have led to a championship and tell me the year. Just think of one up and I'll debunk it for you.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

The Bulls certainly would have been title contenders in 1997-98 even if Pippen never played a single minute.

I know all about 1993-94. I know basketball better than you give me credit for. Anything that happened since Larry Bird or Magic Johnson came into the league, I am quite familiar with.

Here's a fun fact: Pippen never led a team to a championship. Nor could he have done so, realistically. There has only been one player not as good as Pippen to ever lead a team to an NBA championship. And that man was Chauncey Billups- who was the benefit of having 4 other borderline all-stars on his team, and a Karl Malone injury in the Finals that helped him get there.

Name me a team that Pippen could have led to a championship and tell me the year. Just think of one up and I'll debunk it for you.

Well for 1, the 1994 Bulls is a team Pippen could of lead to a championship if not for Hue Hollins...I wish he would of got hit by a bus before the game.
For 2, if Pippen wouldn't have been past his prime and 35 years old, he could of lead the Blazers to a championship.
3, he could of lead the Pacers to a championship....The pacers neever had a real small forward other thn an old Mullin and Jalen Rose who really was a 2guard in a small forwards body...Put Pippen on the 1998 Pacers instead of Mullin, they win it all....Yeah, I know you will say that Reggie Miller would of been the leader, but that would not be true...All Miller did was score and he was not an elite defender...Reggie would of been number 2 to Pippen..Pippen would of lead that team in most catagories and would of been there best play maker....I can think of more teams in the 90s that Pippen would of lead but ill wait for you to debunk this one first...
Speaking of debunking, maybe you should join the ghosthunters and debunk ghosts..LoL

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Well for 1, the 1994 Bulls is Hue Hollins got hit by a bus before the game.

For all you know, the Knicks would have won Game 6 in Chicago.

Here's a fact: Bulls lost to NY. They could not have beaten the Rockets. The Knicks and Rockets were flat-out better teams than the 1994 Bulls.

For 2, if Pippen wouldn't have been past his prime and 35 years old, he could of lead the Blazers to a championship.

Pippen was worn down that year and was a shell of what he used to be. But, even in his prime, Pippen couldn't have been the first scoring option on that team.

3, he could of lead the Pacers to a championship....The pacers neever had a real small forward other thn an old Mullin and Jalen Rose who really was a 2guard in a small forwards body...Put Pippen on the 1998 Pacers instead of Mullin, they win it all....Yeah, I know you will say that Reggie Miller would of been the leader, but that would not be true...All Miller did was score and he was not an elite defender...Reggie would of been number 2 to Pippen..Pippen would of lead that team in most catagories and would of been there best play maker....I can think of more teams in the 90s that Pippen would of lead but ill wait for you to debunk this one first...

Pippen and Reggie Miller in 1998 is a toss-up. I'd say Pippen was still a better player but he wasn't nearly the scorer Miller was. Miller is easily the first option.

Chris Mullin was a great asset for that Pacer team because he helped them spread the floor. I don't think the 1998 Pacers (w/ Pippen) would have necessarily beaten the Bulls (w/ Pippen) despite how that series did go 7 games (all the home games won by the home team).

Speaking of debunking, maybe you should join the ghosthunters and debunk ghosts..LoL

Cute.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

How in the hell were the Knicks flat out better????
Explain.
The team you say was so much better barely got away from that grueling 7 game series.
The only thing that got them past the Bulls was the homecourt advantage and that is all..

As far as the Pacers, the Bulls matched up better against them that the Knicks..
The Bulls would of got past the Pacers in six at worst.

The only thing the Rockets had on the Bulls was Hakeem and nothing else....

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

How in the hell were the Knicks flat out better????
Explain.
The team you say was so much better barely got away from that grueling 7 game series.
The only thing that got them past the Bulls was the homecourt advantage and that is all..

As far as the Pacers, the Bulls matched up better against them that the Knicks..
The Bulls would of got past the Pacers in six at worst.

The only thing the Rockets had on the Bulls was Hakeem and nothing else....

Patrick Ewing was a dominant scorer and the Knicks had the better defensive and rebounding team. Also, the Knicks had better guard play in the form of John Starks, Derek Harper, and Hubert Davis.

It is a testament to the heart of the Bulls (not only Pippen) that they were able to even take them to 7 games.

They were in position to steal the series from the Knicks... and I do mean steal it.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Homecourt Advantage won and that is all..............Period, end of discussion.

 

[houheffna]

Many considered the Knicks the better team in 1993, in 1994 the Knicks returned with a similar team practically and the Bulls didn't have Jordan. The Knicks were considered the better team in 1994 most definitely. Even after the Bulls fantastic season...the Knicks were the class of the East, nobody believed in the Hawks either...

And remember, the Knicks had homecourt in 1993 too...Bulls won in 6...with a littlle bit of a deeper team for the Knicks...

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Jordan had rodman too.

Pippen had Kukoc, too.

 

[97Bulls]

So the implications are that if Pippen had a Pippen. like figure next to him, he is more successful as the main guy than Jordan was? Is that what you are saying? Not based on reality, but what Jordan was "on pace" to do without Pippen...is that what you are saying?

No I'm not implying that. I'm just trying to show that he was a franchise player. Playing behind the greatest franchise player ever.

And allow me to address your insistance on using the word "fantasy". This is all fantasy heff. The 86 celtics will never be able to play the 96 bulls.

And your no more qulified to say pippen wasn't a franchise player as I am to say he was. What I maintain is based on what he did in 94 and 95, he is a franchise player. Now if hee fell flat on his face like mchale in 89, or james in 07, or kobe when shaq left, or wade in 09 I believe; or dirk in 07, etc then id be more inclined to agree.

What's more, is that pippen diidnt have 8 full years to really build a legacy of his own. Neither did mchale. But the celtics were barely 500. And they still had a good team.

 

[97Bulls]

The Bulls certainly would have been title contenders in 1997-98 even if Pippen never played a single minute.

I know all about 1993-94. I know basketball better than you give me credit for. Anything that happened since Larry Bird or Magic Johnson came into the league, I am quite familiar with.

Here's a fun fact: Pippen never led a team to a championship. Nor could he have done so, realistically. There has only been one player not as good as Pippen to ever lead a team to an NBA championship. And that man was Chauncey Billups- who was the benefit of having 4 other borderline all-stars on his team, and a Karl Malone injury in the Finals that helped him get there.

Name me a team that Pippen could have led to a championship and tell me the year. Just think of one up and I'll debunk it for you.

I'm trying to figure out why the bulls wouldn't have won in 94 with mitch richmond.

 

[97Bulls]

Pippen had Kukoc, too.

Dude, did you read my post? Their teams were essentially the same except jordan had rodman instead of grant. And scott burrell instead of pete myers. And kukoc was in his fourth year as opposed to being a rookie.

 

[houheffna]

No I'm not implying that. I'm just trying to show that he was a franchise player. Playing behind the greatest franchise player ever.

And allow me to address your insistance on using the word "fantasy". This is all fantasy heff. The 86 celtics will never be able to play the 96 bulls.

And your no more qulified to say pippen wasn't a franchise player as I am to say he was. What I maintain is based on what he did in 94 and 95, he is a franchise player. Now if hee fell flat on his face like mchale in 89, or james in 07, or kobe when shaq left, or wade in 09 I believe; or dirk in 07, etc then id be more inclined to agree.

What's more, is that pippen diidnt have 8 full years to really build a legacy of his own. Neither did mchale. But the celtics were barely 500. And they still had a good team.

James fell on his face HOW in 2007? Kobe fell HOW? McHale failed HOW? How did Pippen succeed where those players failed?

And I would say Pippen fell flat on his face in 1994 in game 3...he got up, but he fell flat on his face...and please don't try to pass off that Pippen was a more successful franchise player than Kobe or Lebron...that just isn't true.

What critieria are you using to say Pippen succeeded and Lebron and Kobe fell flat on their faces?

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Pippen came back with the fire and passion.

 

[97Bulls]

James fell on his face HOW in 2007? Kobe fell HOW? McHale failed HOW? How did Pippen succeed where those players failed?

And I would say Pippen fell flat on his face in 1994 in game 3...he got up, but he fell flat on his face...and please don't try to pass off that Pippen was a more successful franchise player than Kobe or Lebron...that just isn't true.

What critieria are you using to say Pippen succeeded and Lebron and Kobe fell flat on their faces?

No, no, no, again, what im sayn is that pippen didn't have ample opportinity to be as succesfull as other players have.

Kobes first season when shaq left was atrocious. The lakers record was 35-47. And he had coron butler and lamar odom.

The year lebron james went to the finals was overrated. The east was terrible by then. And when he finally played a talented team, he played like shit. Sure he scored a fair amount of points, but he shot 25, 43, 39, 33% in the four games he played in the finals. And we all know what he did or didn't do this past year.

Kevin mchale took over the reigns in 89 and barely managed to finish above 500. The celtics went 42-40. With 7 of those wins comming vs expansion teams. But I will say that like pippen, he really didn't have a fair shot.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

going back to the argument i made earlier

pippen can arguably "matchup" with bird..but if we're looking at the years in question..bird is head and shoulders above pippen

again, if i had to choose i pick the 96 bulls..but the 86 celts certainly have a case


i've already said this but i felt like saying it again

 

[97Bulls]

going back to the argument i made earlier

pippen can arguably "matchup" with bird..but if we're looking at the years in question..bird is head and shoulders above pippen

again, if i had to choose i pick the 96 bulls..but the 86 celts certainly have a case


i've already said this but i felt like saying it again

Lol no prob bro. Why is he head and shoulders above pippen? Are you going by their rank all-time? Cuz that has no bearing on how they would fair in a series vs each other.