Greatest team ever/Greatest bulls team ever

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Scottie Pippen simply never was a good enough scorer to carry a team to a championship. Sorry, Pippen-fornicators, but it's true. He was a more than viable scoring option (and all-around good offensive player) but he should thank (and I'm sure he has) Jordan for all six of those championships.

Guys like Tracy McGrady, Grant Hill, Allen Iverson, Anfernee Hardaway, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Dirk Nowitzki, Tim Duncan, Chris Webber, Derrick Rose, Amare Stoudemire, Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant, Reggie Miller, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Shaquille O'Neal, Kevin Garnett, Julius Erving, Moses Malone, Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp, Dominique Wilkens, Bernard King, Andrew Toney, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Bird, and many others are miles and miles ahead of Scottie Pippen scoring the ball.

 

[houheffna]

No, no, no, again, what im sayn is that pippen didn't have ample opportinity to be as succesfull as other players have.

Kobes first season when shaq left was atrocious. The lakers record was 35-47. And he had coron butler and lamar odom.

The year lebron james went to the finals was overrated. The east was terrible by then. And when he finally played a talented team, he played like shit. Sure he scored a fair amount of points, but he shot 25, 43, 39, 33% in the four games he played in the finals. And we all know what he did or didn't do this past year.

Kevin mchale took over the reigns in 89 and barely managed to finish above 500. The celtics went 42-40. With 7 of those wins comming vs expansion teams. But I will say that like pippen, he really didn't have a fair shot.

McHale is not a number one guy either...you rant and rave about what Pippen did with 2 allstars and a hall of fame coach...but, you don't want to recognize what Lebron did in 2007...Lebron beat the Detroit Pistons, who the year before took the Spurs to 7 games...I know you aren't going to bring up Big Ben leaving, because according to you, he was overrated. That said, Lebron accomplished a hell of a lot, and he didn't play with a championship team. There is a reason he shot the percentages he did. He was the only guy on that team that could play.

Scottie's defense was better than his offense. Offensively, he didn't have enough to be the man on a championship caliber team. He wasn't going to take over a game and control the tempo like Magic could, he wasn't going to hit big shots and will his team to victory like Jordan and Bird did. He wasn't the intimidating freak of nature that Barkley or Malone were. When given the opportunity, Pippen's numbers stayed the same, and in the playoffs, the Bulls needed a go to guy who could hit those big shots and could stop a run from the opposing team. Pippen was never that type of guy.

And I noticed Rami brought up Bernard King...franchise player right there, would drop 50 on you any given night. Was he in his prime a better player than Pippen? That is debatable. What' is not is that Bernard could lead a team offensively, so could Dominique. Pippen was a different player from them, Barry damn near singlehandedly won a title. All of those players were better scorers than Pippen was.

 

[97Bulls]

Scottie Pippen simply never was a good enough scorer to carry a team to a championship. Sorry, Pippen-fornicators, but it's true. He was a more than viable scoring option (and all-around good offensive player) but he should thank (and I'm sure he has) Jordan for all six of those championships.

Guys like Tracy McGrady, Grant Hill, Allen Iverson, Anfernee Hardaway, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Dirk Nowitzki, Tim Duncan, Chris Webber, Derrick Rose, Amare Stoudemire, Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant, Reggie Miller, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Shaquille O'Neal, Kevin Garnett, Julius Erving, Moses Malone, Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp, Dominique Wilkens, Bernard King, Andrew Toney, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Larry Bird, and many others are miles and miles ahead of Scottie Pippen scoring the ball.

But yet most of the players you mentioned have no championships to show for their amazing scoring. So who the hell cares?

16 of the players you mentioned have no championships
4 of the players you mentioned weren't even the leading scorers on the teams they won championships on

Don't even get me started on kobe bryants championship runs

Tim duncan wasn't that much better scorer than pippen. Neither was garnett.

And andrew toney? Come on. You'd pick andrew toney to be your franchise player over pippen? Toney was what jason terry is today

 

[97Bulls]

McHale is not a number one guy either...you rant and rave about what Pippen did with 2 allstars and a hall of fame coach...but, you don't want to recognize what Lebron did in 2007...Lebron beat the Detroit Pistons, who the year before took the Spurs to 7 games...I know you aren't going to bring up Big Ben leaving, because according to you, he was overrated. That said, Lebron accomplished a hell of a lot, and he didn't play with a championship team. There is a reason he shot the percentages he did. He was the only guy on that team that could play.

Your friggn incredible. Why make excuses for lebron literrally stinking up the gym, but attack the guy on your favorite team?

 

[houheffna]

Your friggn incredible. Why make excuses for lebron literrally stinking up the gym, but attack the guy on your favorite team?

You are friggin incredible...why not grow up? Saying that Pippen wasn't as good as Bird or Baylor...or saying that Pippen wasn't the type of player offensively or mentally to be a franchise guy on a championship team is not attacking him, its calling it like I see it. I have no problems criticizing ANY player in the league. I am impartial, I am not a fanboy.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

But yet most of the players you mentioned have no championships to show for their amazing scoring. So who the hell cares?

16 of the players you mentioned have no championships
4 of the players you mentioned weren't even the leading scorers on the teams they won championships on

Don't even get me started on kobe bryants championship runs

Tim duncan wasn't that much better scorer than pippen. Neither was garnett.

And andrew toney? Come on. You'd pick andrew toney to be your franchise player over pippen? Toney was what jason terry is today

All of them are better scorers than Pippen. There are a LOT more players to add to that list, too. Those players never had Michael Jordan as a teammate. That is the biggest reason most of them are ringless.

Kobe Bryant has 2 Finals' MVPs. Kobe is no Jordan but Pippen isn't even in his league.

Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett were go-to guys offensively and considerably better scorers than Pippen. If Pippen was on either's team, he would be force feeding them the ball. Because Pippen made a living out of playing off of teammates throughout his entire career.

And Andrew Toney was Jason Terry?? That is not true at all. Toney was a much better pure scorer. Barkley called him the best teammate he ever played with.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Your friggn incredible. Why make excuses for lebron literrally stinking up the gym, but attack the guy on your favorite team?

The closest LeBron James ever came to stinking up the gym was in the 2010 second round versus Boston (after Game 3). Other than that, it is really hyperbole to say that. Even in the 2011 Finals, LeBron James played good team basketball. He just didn't play assertively enough and was criticized for it.

Some would say... he played too much like Pippen.

 

[houheffna]

The best way I could describe Andrew Toney...is Ben Gordon. A guard who at times could score at will and take over ball games. Doug Collins would make that comparison all the time. I am not a big Gordon guy...but he was a closer.

Comparing Lebron to Pippen in 2011 Finals is spot on. Lebron didn't have a bad series, he just didn't live up to expectations. He facilitated the offense and played well for 3 quarters...he just found out Wade ain't Jordan. Nobody is. Lebron is too skilled a player to allow himself to be second fiddle, but that is his choice. I think that position worked for Scottie just fine. Lebron can drop 40 on you in any given moment. Scottie wasn't that type of guy and didn't have to be. Between 1993 and 1995, Scottie had 1 game where he scored 40 points.

Could Scottie be a Magic Johnson type and fill the stat sheet across the board on the same level Magic could without having to score a bunch of points? Could Scottie win with Worthy and Jabbar?

 

[97Bulls]

All of them are better scorers than Pippen. There are a LOT more players to add to that list, too. Those players never had Michael Jordan as a teammate. That is the biggest reason most of them are ringless.

Kobe Bryant has 2 Finals' MVPs. Kobe is no Jordan but Pippen isn't even in his league.

Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett were go-to guys offensively and considerably better scorers than Pippen. If Pippen was on either's team, he would be force feeding them the ball. Because Pippen made a living out of playing off of teammates throughout his entire career.

And Andrew Toney was Jason Terry?? That is not true at all. Toney was a much better pure scorer. Barkley called him the best teammate he ever played with.

Scottie Pippen didn't have a great teammate alongside of him either. Why is this overlooked? Why can yoou easily see and forgive certain players for not having top flight teammaes but then knock pippen?

For instance garnett, he was worthless in the last few minutes of the game even ran away from the ball. He never led a team to a championship. And he had ample opportuniity unlike pippen, why is he forgiven?

And kobe has is one of the most overrated finals mvps ever. He's been blessed with being on the best team.

 

[97Bulls]

The closest LeBron James ever came to stinking up the gym was in the 2010 second round versus Boston (after Game 3). Other than that, it is really hyperbole to say that. Even in the 2011 Finals, LeBron James played good team basketball. He just didn't play assertively enough and was criticized for it.

Some would say... he played too much like Pippen.

Idiots say that he played like pippen. It wasn't his offense that was the problem, it was his defense. Jason terry and jose berea got into the lane whenever they felt like it and were sticking jumpers in his face. If james really played like pippen he'd have a ring. There's more ways to win a basketball game than just scoring.

 

[nwfisch]

Do we have to keep going over this, Pippen was #2 scorer on the Bulls championship teams. The point was that Lebron became more of a facilator instead of scoring...

 

[houheffna]

Scottie Pippen didn't have a great teammate alongside of him either. Why is this overlooked? Why can yoou easily see and forgive certain players for not having top flight teammaes but then knock pippen?

For instance garnett, he was worthless in the last few minutes of the game even ran away from the ball. He never led a team to a championship. And he had ample opportuniity unlike pippen, why is he forgiven?

And kobe has is one of the most overrated finals mvps ever. He's been blessed with being on the best team.

EVERYBODY IS OVERRATED...but Pippen..lol...hilarious.

So now you lambast Kobe...you telling me now that Pippen > Kobe???

Oh boy...

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Scottie Pippen didn't have a great teammate alongside of him either. Why is this overlooked? Why can yoou easily see and forgive certain players for not having top flight teammaes but then knock pippen?

For instance garnett, he was worthless in the last few minutes of the game even ran away from the ball. He never led a team to a championship. And he had ample opportuniity unlike pippen, why is he forgiven?

And kobe has is one of the most overrated finals mvps ever. He's been blessed with being on the best team.

This is the truest statement on this thread.

 

[nwfisch]

I find it odd how 97Bulls and SP1994 keep living in 1994....Pippen didn't lead the Bulls to a title when he had a chance to.

 

[houheffna]

Do we have to keep going over this, Pippen was #2 scorer on the Bulls championship teams. The point was that Lebron became more of a facilator instead of scoring...

Exactly right...he WANTED to be Pippen...not Jordan. Its a shame because he is more talented than Pippen was...and Pippen agrees with that.

 

[houheffna]

I find it odd how 97Bulls and SP1994 keep living in 1994....Pippen didn't lead the Bulls to a title when he had a chance to.

He had ample opportunity to show how dominant he could be and whether he could be that franchise caliber guy. I just don't think he had the traits. He couldn't be to the Bulls what Reggie Miller was to the Pacers. That is the reason why Kukoc and B.J. took the big shots in that Knicks series. We all know who took the big shots for the Pacers in New York.

 

[97Bulls]

Do we have to keep going over this, Pippen was #2 scorer on the Bulls championship teams. The point was that Lebron became more of a facilator instead of scoring...

No.... the point is the heat lost cuz they couldn't stop the mavs PGs. James scored enough to for the heat to win. It was his defense that was shitty.

 

[97Bulls]

EVERYBODY IS OVERRATED...but Pippen..lol...hilarious.

So now you lambast Kobe...you telling me now that Pippen > Kobe???

Oh boy...

No. Its the precedent. You act like all these players traveled down the same path when they didn't. The best way to compare players is what they do in similar situations. Kobe Bryant won his championships cuz he had the best talent in the league. Certainly not because of his ability to take over games. He shot a terrible % in all his fianls excepr 1. He scores a lot of points cuz he takes a lot of shots. And he's not or was never asked to do everything on the court pippen did.

 

[houheffna]

No. Its the precedent. You act like all these players traveled down the same path when they didn't. The best way to compare players is what they do in similar situations. Kobe Bryant won his championships cuz he had the best talent in the league. Certainly not because of his ability to take over games. He shot a terrible % in all his fianls excepr 1. He scores a lot of points cuz he takes a lot of shots. And he's not or was never asked to do everything on the court pippen did.

Pippen was asked to back up Jordan...to make Jordan's job easier...that was harder than Kobe's job? I don't think so. Pippen was never asked to be the closer, to be the main guy...not while Jordan was there. Kobe has more talent so he was asked to do what you ask great players to do who are franchise players.

Kobe just happened to be top2 or 3 player in the league if not the best in the league when he won those titles. HE was the franchise player. You can say the same for Magic and Bird. They had the best talent in the league. But those teams would not have been championship caliber without the franchise players. Kobe took over games routinely. He was the closer. Pippen was never a closer, that is my point. B.J. and Kukoc don't take big shots in big games with Kobe on the floor...never would have happened. Kobe was the closer on 6 title runs...whether he did well or failed, he was overqualified for the job. Can't say that about Pippen.

Its also a bad comparison because Kobe is a better all around player than Pippen was. Kobe is talked about in comparison to Jordan, not Pippen...

Can't believe someone is discrediting Kobe, who is/was a better player than Pippen to prove a point.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Scottie Pippen didn't have a great teammate alongside of him either. Why is this overlooked? Why can yoou easily see and forgive certain players for not having top flight teammaes but then knock pippen?

For instance garnett, he was worthless in the last few minutes of the game even ran away from the ball. He never led a team to a championship. And he had ample opportuniity unlike pippen, why is he forgiven?

And kobe has is one of the most overrated finals mvps ever. He's been blessed with being on the best team.

The point is that Pippen wasn't an number 1 option scorer. Garnett ran away from the ball and Pippen didn't? Garnett performed offensively in the clutch better than Pippen did. These aren't knocks on Pippen- it's just pointing out how it was.

Kobe Bryant deserved those Finals MVP awards. And was a much better player than Pippen. What else needs to be said?