Greatest team ever/Greatest bulls team ever

[scottiepippen1994]

You are using exhibition games against Angola to say that Pippen could have duplicated what Magic Johnson did? Are you friggin' kidding me?

You are going to compare what Pippen did against amateurs to what Magic did in the NBA? That is just plain stupid.

Magic was on another level from Pippen, right now you are saying that Pippen playing with Jordan, robbed Pippen of being Magic Johnson...think about that for a minute...let that marinate.

And again I ask, if Pippen is on the same team as Kobe...or Magic...who is the franchise player and who is the sidekick?

And tell me that don't sound like some of the dumbest shit ever spoken about basketball. Jordan taught Pippen HOW TO PLAY BASKETBALL. PIppen maximized his abilities playing with Jordan. Case closed.

LMAO
Pippen learned how to play basketball well before he ever met Michael Jordan.
How else would he have been a first round draft pick in the NBA and be picked in the top ten...
Your statement is ridiculous..Jordan may have helped him maximise his game, but he didn't teach him how to play basketball.
Pippen also had natural pointguard skills when he came in the NBA.
Some of Pippens first statements in his draft day interview was "I hope to work my way into the point guard position".

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[97Bulls]

You are using exhibition games against Angola to say that Pippen could have duplicated what Magic Johnson did? Are you friggin' kidding me?

You are going to compare what Pippen did against amateurs to what Magic did in the NBA? That is just plain stupid.

Magic was on another level from Pippen, right now you are saying that Pippen playing with Jordan, robbed Pippen of being Magic Johnson...think about that for a minute...let that marinate.

And again I ask, if Pippen is on the same team as Kobe...or Magic...who is the franchise player and who is the sidekick?

And tell me that don't sound like some of the dumbest shit ever spoken about basketball. Jordan taught Pippen HOW TO PLAY BASKETBALL. PIppen maximized his abilities playing with Jordan. Case closed.

No. I'm comparing what pippen and magic did on the same team. Both taking tuurns running the team. The greatestt team ever

And as far as franchise player/sidekick.... who gives a shit? If both players are intrumental to the teams success.

And lol at jordan taught scottie pippen how to play basketball. Get a friggn life. Why didn't he teach kwame broown? Or brad sellers?

 

[97Bulls]

Why are you still arguing on Pippen's behalf? You've already conceded that Kobe and Magic are better players.

Pippen couldn't get you 30 per-night if he did try. That is a fair knock on him relative to Kobe. He didn't demand a double or triple-team. Do you have any idea how much better you can make your teammates when you get that kind of respect from defenses? Pippen was the guy who benefited the most from Jordan being constantly doubled and tripled... and sometimes even quadrupled.
This is a dumb statement all the way around.

The year before LAL got Gasol, Bynum was a raw talent averaging 10 points in 20 minutes. That team's main roster was Kobe+Smush Parker+Lamar Odom+Luke Walton+Kwame Brown. They still made the playoffs.z
lol pippens starting 5 in 95 was armstrong, myers, kukoc, dickie simpkins, and luc longley. And he had that team on pace for 45 wins with less talent than what kobe had.
The year before that, Bynum rarely played at all and Chris Mihm and Brian Cook were the C+PF. Odom was playing the 3 as a natural 4. And Kobe STILL took the Suns to 7 games. That team was simply horrible and Kobe Bryant carried them down the stretch in a way Pippen could never dream of doing.
whoopdedamndo. The suns were put out in the next round. Go back and look at 95.

If you want to say something like Pippen could have done just as well in Kobe's spot, it is just as sane to say that Kobe could have done just as well in Pippen's spot.

Imagine Kobe in the 90's able to use his body and bump defenders and cause steals and get more easy transition baskets with Jordan as a teammate. It's fair to say Kobe would have averaged nearly 50% from the floor if not higher.

The muthafuka had shaq rami!!!!!!!!!! He's never been anywhere near 50%. Never. And you're always refering to how the change in rules helped players. It helped kobe too. I thing his ppg rose +4 with that rule change.

 

[97Bulls]

Guys like Stockton, Kidd, Mark Jackson, and Magic were amazing playmakers. Hell, I'd say even T-Mac, Anfernee Hardaway, and Grant Hill were noticeably better playmakers than Pippen. Pippen was a very good passer but he wasn't a great passer.

Lol you were 7 years old when those guys played. That all I'm gonna say.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

This is a dumb statement all the way around.

Yep. You obviously know nothing about basketball and how the game is played. When players get doubled then it HELPS THE OTHER 4 GUYS. This is common sense 101.

lol pippens starting 5 in 95 was armstrong, myers, kukoc, dickie simpkins, and luc longley. And he had that team on pace for 45 wins with less talent than what kobe had.

That '95 supporting cast is MUCH better than what Kobe had that season! You must be out of your damn mind.

whoopdedamndo. The suns were put out in the next round. Go back and look at 95.

And the Suns had much greater talent than the Lakers did.

The muthafuka had shaq rami!!!!!!!!!! He's never been anywhere near 50%. Never. And you're always refering to how the change in rules helped players. It helped kobe too. I thing his ppg rose +4 with that rule change.

He didn't have Shaq or Gasol in 2005-2007. And after he got Gasol, he was hands-down the best player on that team and won championships. And Kobe was still somewhat raw the year of the rule change and his role on the team was increasing. Did you ever think of that? The rule changes hindered Kobe's ability on defense and helped his offense, even though his offense would have been disgusting regardless. You have ALREADY CONCEDED that Kobe was no Pippen. Why argue anymore? You've lost.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Lol you were 7 years old when those guys played. That all I'm gonna say.

Yet I saw them then and studied them for countless hours, days, and weeks after the fact and obviously know tons more about them than you do and why they were so successful and great at what they did and know how they effected their teams' success. Thanks for trying to be an asshole but I'm 23 years-old and obsessed with basketball. I'm not an idiot.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

LMAO
Pippen learned how to play basketball well before he ever met Michael Jordan.
How else would he have been a first round draft pick in the NBA and be picked in the top ten...
Your statement is ridiculous..Jordan may have helped him maximise his game, but he didn't teach him how to play basketball.
Pippen also had natural pointguard skills when he came in the NBA.
Some of Pippens first statements in his draft day interview was "I hope to work my way into the point guard position".

Of course Pippen had skills when he was drafted. He was an NBA player for Godsakes. The point is that Jordan is what elevated him to the next level. And it wasn't just his presence on the court by itself. It was the constant hounding and practicing and pressure that allowed Scottie to become a HOF caliber player. Pippen was not initially a great defender when he came into the league. Nor was he a very good shooter. Jordan's demands, talent, and work ethic, and leadership demanded that out of Pippen.

Pippen on the Sonic (never traded to the Bulls) would not have ended up a Hall of Famer in all likelihood. Probably a borderline all-star.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Seriously... how basketball Special person can somebody be to claim that the '95 Bulls' supporting cast wasn't as good as the '06 Lakers....

Toni Kukoc is as good as Lamar Odom pretty much on his own. Smush Parker was HORRIBLE... B.J. DESTROYS him! Kwame Brown was HORRIBLE too. I'll take Luc Longley over Kwame Brown any day of the WEEK! Hell, Andrew Bynum was pretty much useless back then too and did not play much at all. And Ron Harper destroys Luke Walton!

And using the Dream Team as a way of trying to argue for Pippen? That team would have destroyed every single opponent even if Jordan, Barkley, Malone, and Pippen never suited up!

And keep in mind that it has already been said by this same person that Pippen is not as good as Kobe or Magic... yet the argument keeps going and we are being called HATERS for speaking the truth!

Give me a damn break!!!

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

And SP94... you don't know how to give a rebuttal at all. Why respond to a post if you ignore literally every word except one little line that was taken COMPLETELY out of context from what Houff said?

It is almost unreal how ridiculous it is to try to reason and have a conversation with a person who does that. If this were a debate, you'd be disqualified. And yes I know a forum is not a debate hall. But seriously... if you are going to try to talk to people in a civilized way, why not try to respond to what the person actually says instead of fucking around with them like an asshole and taking what they said out-of-context

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

And 97 has to resort to little petty butthurt tactics like using my age, of all things, in a petty, irrelevant attempt to discredit me. You have completely ignored EACH point I've made and called it trash. Not once have you admitted when you were shown to have made a terrible point. Nor have you accepted when one of us, whether me/Code/Houf have made a good point.

 

[houheffna]

No. I'm comparing what pippen and magic did on the same team. Both taking tuurns running the team. The greatestt team ever

And as far as franchise player/sidekick.... who gives a shit? If both players are intrumental to the teams success.

And lol at jordan taught scottie pippen how to play basketball. Get a friggn life. Why didn't he teach kwame broown? Or brad sellers?

Pippen would not have been the NBA player he was had he not worked with Jordan...I never said Pippen didn't have talent...Jordan made him the player he was by working with him.

What is sad is you think Pippen was Magic Johnson...get your shit together before you tell someone else to get a life...

 

[houheffna]

Lol you were 7 years old when those guys played. That all I'm gonna say.

And how old were you when Magic Johnson was in his prime? How old were you when Elgin Baylor was playing?

Who the hell are you to put someone down for their age, your only argument about every player sans Pippen is they are overrated. You crap on what Magic can do by saying Pippen could have stepped in and did what he did...Pippen has NEVER been able to play on Magic's level...to make that statement is tragic. You have gone from Pippen was robbed of a DPOY award...to Pippen could have been a 3 time MVP in the 1980's? Give me a damn break.

find me one legit NBA fan (you ain't one) who would take Pippen as a better player than Kobe Bryant...one fan with any...ANY sanity. Find me one fan who thinks Pippen should even be mentioned in the same paragraph with Magic Johnson.

Saying that Pippen couldn't do what Stockton did is somehow a ludicrous statement? You think Stocktons grow on trees?

That said, you didn't answer my question, because you know the truth. If Magic and Kobe were on the same team as Pippen, who would be the franchise player and who would be the sidekick? Who gives a shit? You do! You have been making the same argument for months now. Pippen as franchise player wins titles, as if Jordan held him back.

NOBODY said Pippen wasn't instrumental to the Bulls titles, so you can keep that b.s. I asked you a simple question...you know the answer and can't admit it because it shits on your argument. Pippen couldn't take Gasol and beat the Celtics...Pippen couldn't take Worthy and Jabbar and beat the Celtics...because he wasn't as good as those players. I would go so far as to say you couldn't replace Worthy with Pippen and win like they did. Why? Pippen couldn't score like Worthy could.

And you continue to point to Kobe's FG%...look at the two player's true shooting percentages. Kobe's is better...why? Because he was a better long range shooter, and a much better free throw shooter. We don't even have to get technical. I don't have to talk about Kobe's superior ability to create off the dribble and his volume shooting being a necessity. Pippen, comparable to players at his position, was a horrendous free throw shooter. The best at that position routinely shot 80% from the line...Pippen spent a lot of his career shooting like a center from the free throw line. Kobe is an 11-time all defensive player...so he is proven to be a great defender, but he is a much better offensive player than Pippen was. Scoring 50 points wasn't Pippen's game...because Pippen couldn't score 50 points. Stop the madness...

 

[houheffna]

If Pippen didn't play with Jordan for the majority of his career, I think he would have been like Richard Jefferson.

that might be a fair assessment.

 

[y2ktors]

If Pippen didn't play with Jordan for the majority of his career, I think he would have been like Richard Jefferson.

I totally disagree. Pippen is a true ballhandler. He didn't need anyone to help create shot opportunities like Jefferson does as well as being a superior defender to Jefferson.

Pippen helped MJs game just as much as Jordan helped Pippen.

 

[Crystallas]

Pippen helped MJs game just as much as Jordan helped Pippen.

No, Jordan helped Pippen improve his game 10 fold. Pippen helped Jordan improve his game considerably less.

 

[nwfisch]

LOL at Pippen helping Jordan as much as Jordan helping Pippen. C'mon guys, really?

It's OK to say Pippen was 2nd to Jordan on the Bulls, it's OK to say he got help. Pip's definitely a top 50 all-time player. That's nothing for Bulls' fans to be disappointed in.

 

[97Bulls]

Yep. You obviously know nothing about basketball and how the game is played. When players get doubled then it HELPS THE OTHER 4 GUYS. This is common sense 101.
Not in kobes case. Kobe doesn't. Make. His teammates better. They make him better


That '95 supporting cast is MUCH better than what Kobe had that season! You must be out of your damn mind.
Andrew bynum even at 19 was better than luc longley. Odom at that stage was better than kukoc, who still was adjusting to the nba game. Parker and Myers are about even. Kwame brown was a solid defender. You're just takin out your ass. Even if you say the talent was relatively equal, pippen still did a better job than kobe in similar situations.


And the Suns had much greater talent than the Lakers did.
So, they weren't champions or even western conference champs.


He didn't have Shaq or Gasol in 2005-2007. And after he got Gasol, he was hands-down the best player on that team and won championships. And Kobe was still somewhat raw the year of the rule change and his role on the team was increasing. Did you ever think of that? The rule changes hindered Kobe's ability on defense and helped his offense, even though his offense would have been disgusting regardless. You have ALREADY CONCEDED that Kobe was no Pippen. Why argue anymore? You've lost.

And how was he raw? Wasn't he around 26 when the nba made those rule chages? Come on. And while its true brryant was the best player on the lakers, its also true that the lakers won with their rebounding and size. Which greatly negated kobe inefficient shooting.

 

[97Bulls]

Pippen would not have been the NBA player he was had he not worked with Jordan...I never said Pippen didn't have talent...Jordan made him the player he was by working with him.

What is sad is you think Pippen was Magic Johnson...get your shit together before you tell someone else to get a life...

I agree jordan helped pippen develope. But I stop short at the references to jordan teaching pippen how to play basketball.

I also don't see how this is even relevant. What if jordan never played under phil jackson? What if magic isn't passing to a bunch of players capable of scoring 20 ppg? And played in an uptempo offense? What if pippen got with an offensive minded coach like don nelson?
There's just too much conjesture in this way of thinking.

We should just stick to what we actually saw

 

[houheffna]

I agree jordan helped pippen develope. But I stop short at the references to jordan teaching pippen how to play basketball.

I also don't see how this is even relevant. What if jordan never played under phil jackson? What if magic isn't passing to a bunch of players capable of scoring 20 ppg? And played in an uptempo offense? What if pippen got with an offensive minded coach like don nelson?
There's just too much conjesture in this way of thinking.

We should just stick to what we actually saw

Yeah, we should, that way we don't speculate that Pippen could have been just as successful as Magic Johnson. It is hilarious that you and others think the difference between Pippen and Magic is personnel and not skill level.

It makes me think you never actually saw Magic Johnson in his prime play basketball.

 

[houheffna]

Pippen helped MJs game just as much as Jordan helped Pippen.

Pippen is famous because he played with Jordan. Jordan is famous because he is FRIGGIN' MICHAEL JORDAN!!!

I can't believe some of this stuff I am reading...