I can't believe some players are whining about Lovie still..

[KittiesKorner]

See, the problem with this argument BM is that I need to know who would have beaten had Lovie gotten a good OC? Hester? Aromashadu? Bradley? I just don't see the "gems"(Angelo speak), that never blossomed under Drake or Lovie.

The problem always was TALENT. And that falls SQUARELY on the Ange"loof". As evidence, you see that once a new GM comes in a gets a REAL wr, you saw the results.

You CAN'T miss that much on draft picks(especially high ones) and not expect that there would not be an affect. It's the reason we HAD to sign bums like R. Williams....


BEARS

thomas, you have to admit that we weren't exactly running a brain trust in OCs. Shea -- screen pass on 3rd and long, or really whatever down. Turner seemed stubborn to the point of obtuse (sometimes running too much, other times passing too much), and I tend to defend him more than a lot of people do. Martz was great in his prime but ran such a bespoke and outdated mad scientist offense that nobody liked it until he gave in and let us run more. Tice was, well, Tice. Who couldn't see that train wreck coming aside from a sizable portion of toolsheds on the CBMB.

As the HC, unfortunately, neglect in that department falls on you and I've heard it directly from a player that Lovie more or less didn't even deal with the O but left it up to his coordinators. Delegation? Fine. But come on.

And if we are going to skew towards one phase over another, why not offense for fucking once in the Bears history, you know?

 

[bearmick]

See, the problem with this argument BM is that I need to know who would have been good had Lovie gotten a good OC? Hester? Aromashadu? Bradley? I just don't see the "gems"(Angelo speak), that never blossomed under Drake or Lovie.

The problem always was TALENT. And that falls SQUARELY on the Ange"loof". As evidence, you see that once a new GM comes in a gets a REAL wr, you saw the results.

You CAN'T miss that much on draft picks(especially high ones) and not expect that there would not be an affect. It's the reason we HAD to sign bums like R. Williams....

I know you are not a Lovie hater. I am talking about others on here who've I constantly debated with....


BEARS

We can argue about how much % of the blame in that regard falls on Angelo and Lovie respectively. The in game management still wasn't good. Way too many stupid challenges, stupid time outs, stupid decisions. All of it together, coupled with missing the playoffs 5 out of 6 years, coupled with his part in the failure to build a competent offensive coaching staff - that's going to get any HC fired eventually.

 

[Uncle Zeek]

See, the problem with this argument BM is that I need to know who would have been good had Lovie gotten a good OC? Hester? Aromashadu? Bradley? I just don't see the "gems"(Angelo speak), that never blossomed under Drake or Lovie.

The problem always was TALENT. And that falls SQUARELY on the Ange"loof". As evidence, you see that once a new GM comes in a gets a REAL wr, you saw the results.

You CAN'T miss that much on draft picks(especially high ones) and not expect that there would not be an affect. It's the reason we HAD to sign bums like R. Williams....

I know you are not a Lovie hater. I am talking about others on here who've I constantly debated with....


BEARS

Every team has busts. Some teams take lesser talent and develop them into solid players. Lovie did that with guys like Wright, Conte, Hell, Look at Melton.
But it never happened on the offensive side of the ball. Never.

 

[Thomas31]

thomas, you have to admit that we weren't exactly running a brain trust in OCs. Shea -- screen pass on 3rd and long, or really whatever down. Turner seemed stubborn to the point of obtuse (sometimes running too much, other times passing too much), and I tend to defend him more than a lot of people do. Martz was great in his prime but ran such a bespoke and outdated mad scientist offense that nobody liked it until he gave in and let us run more. Tice was, well, Tice. Who couldn't see that train wreck coming aside from a sizable portion of toolsheds on the CBMB.

As the HC, unfortunately, neglect in that department falls on you and I've heard it directly from a player that Lovie more or less didn't even deal with the O but left it up to his coordinators. Delegation? Fine. But come on.

And if we are going to skew towards one phase over another, why not offense for fucking once in the Bears history, you know?

I can agree with this. The constant hit and miss in creating an offense was ultimately Lovie downfall. I honestly thought Martz was going to work out. I never trusted Tice. Lovie put too much trust in other people to do what he thought they could. He got fired for it. I understand it. All I'm saying is that Emery goes and get's Marshall and Bennet. Are those NOT significant upgrades in talent? Did Angelo ever bring a wr of Marshall's level to the Bears? Musin maybe, but he was on the wrong side of his age...


BEARS

 

[Warrior Spirit]

As a HC, Lovie was good in that he kept the team together and on the same page and had their respect so you didn't see the bs problems you'd see happen between players on other teams. Other than that, he was just too inept offensively and unwilling to bend and make the needed adjustments. I, too, believe he'd be best served to just return as a DC. Over the years, his assistants kept getting the hammered lowered on them. It was only a matter of time before the one most accountable for it all, had to feel the wrath of that hammer.

Grown men should never whine and cry, especially when they're paid handsomely for merely playing a real fun game.

 

[KittiesKorner]

No angelo was always shopping in filene's basement and I think he felt the heat when he went for peppers and cutler near the end and thought 'there's your blue chip players on o and d, happy?' He never seemed to get the idea of moving parts working in unison and his overloading and drafting at certain positions, effectively stunting the development of the prior year's pick at said positions, drove me batshit.

I think his ultimate downfall really was the 2007 draft where he felt like all picks were luxuries

 

[bearmick]

In hindsight, I still think it's funny that for many of us, our main comfort heading into the 2012 draft was that at least the days of taking undersized defensive linemen were over.

 

[KittiesKorner]

I only just noticed that Babich is the DC for the Jaguars now.

 

[Uncle Zeek]

I can agree with this. The constant hit and miss in creating an offense was ultimately Lovie downfall. I honestly thought Martz was going to work out. I never trusted Tice. Lovie put too much trust in other people to do what he thought they could. He got fired for it. I understand it. All I'm saying is that Emery goes and get's Marshall and Bennet. Are those NOT significant upgrades in talent? Did Angelo ever bring a wr of Marshall's level to the Bears? Musin maybe, but he was on the wrong side of his age...


BEARS

Did Angelo ever have the opportunity to get a Brandon Marshall and pass it up? People act like Emery is some freekin god for making that trade. 25 GM's would have made that trade. The only reason 24 of them didn't was because they didn't have Jay Cutler on their team and never had a chance.

 

[KittiesKorner]

In hindsight, I still think it's funny that for many of us, our main comfort heading into the 2012 draft was that at least the days of taking undersized defensive linemen were over.

And in 2013, we were like "emery's gonna score" and he picks an o-lineman who's started 5 games in college. Sure hope that doesn't come back to bite us. Long seems a lot more game-ready than Carimi (read: no injury history and he's not a tackle) but I just don't know yet

 

[bearmick]

And in 2013, we were like "emery's gonna score" and he picks an o-lineman who's started 5 games in college. Sure hope that doesn't come back to bite us. Long seems a lot more equipped than Carimi (read: no injury history) but I just don't know yet

Did you see the clip of them interviewing Long after practice today? I almost get the feeling that he doesn't quite believe that he's ready for this yet. Hopefully his confidence grows as they go through camp and he gets some action in PS games.

 

[KittiesKorner]

Did you see the clip of them interviewing Long after practice today? I almost get the feeling that he doesn't quite believe that he's ready for this yet. Hopefully his confidence grows as they go through camp and he gets some action in PS games.

yeah, he wasn't as cocky, probably because they rotated him in for brown with the first team, and then rotated him right back out again. I do like his 'tude though. I'd be thrilled if he turns out to beast but it's a crap shoot.

 

[Thomas31]

Did Angelo ever have the opportunity to get a Brandon Marshall and pass it up? People act like Emery is some freekin god for making that trade. 25 GM's would have made that trade. The only reason 24 of them didn't was because they didn't have Jay Cutler on their team and never had a chance.

Oh no. I do not have a high opinion of Emery at all yet. I do not like his "project" 1st round picks the past two years. I am taking a wait and see approach with him and Trestman. Could be the offensive explosion that many Bears fans have always wanted, or it could all blow up in our face....

And with all these single year contracts, I honestly have no clue on the direction the team is going. We don't even know if the supposed "franchise quarterback" will even be back next year....

BEARS

 

[KittiesKorner]

2014 could be "tilt" mode

 

[Thomas31]

2014 could be "tilt" mode

lol.....agreed....


BEARS

 

[bearmick]

I think one thing we should be thankful to Lovie and Angelo for is that, for the first time since the late 80s, the Bears have had a strong identity. That can only happen when you have a strong, successful core on at least one side of the ball.

I just hope that the next decade isn't like the 90s, when we never had that at all.

 

[KittiesKorner]

agreed. trestman is growing on me as a coach from what I've read today. yeah, it's premature, but the way he broke down what they were trying to accomplish in practice in the post-practice pressers was so much more specific, even regarding the D, than Lovie's "Jesus take the wheel" approach

 

[StrongerThanAll]

The OP is either self employed from birth or never had a boss he liked. This shit is more natural in any line of work than the common flu.

BTW I am glad lovie is gone, but to be shocked that some people actually liked their coworker this is childish and totally disconnected from what the professional level of football really is. A JOB

 

[Uncle Zeek]

agreed. trestman is growing on me as a coach from what I've read today. yeah, it's premature, but the way he broke down what they were trying to accomplish in practice in the post-practice pressers was so much more specific, even regarding the D, than Lovie's "Jesus take the wheel" approach

Turns out, a coach can articulate without handing out copies of the game plan.

 

[KittiesKorner]

Turns out, a coach can articulate without handing out copies of the game plan.

fair point.