If we lose out...

[patg006]

Getting a higher draft pick increases your chances of acquiring an impact player, whether through a direct pick or by having more draft capital to trade with.

You keep denying this completey obvious fact. I don't know why.

Because it's not 'an obvious fact.'

Why was Michael Strahan the 5th DE taken in 1993?

Clearly because John Copeland gave the Bengals a better chance to win going #4 overall? Or because Dan Williams gave the Broncos a better chance? Coleman Rudolph totally was better with the Jets. Eric Curry is in the hall of fame, right?

 

[BearsWillWin]

You ignored my question because you can't answer it.

I didn't ignore it. It just doesn't have anything to do with what I am saying.

There is no advantage in drafting #9 over #19.........because a good GM can find a great player at #19. And nothing suggest the team drafting at #9 is automatically going to be better than the team at #19.

 

[BearsWillWin]

I'm still waiting for the follow up to the Cedric Benson reference.

I mean you tried to say the Bears got Benson at #4 and then went to the Superbowl............like Benson was the reason they did.

Please, tell me more.

 

[bearmick]

Draft position doesn't mean as much as fans think it does.

Ah, now the crank is starting to move a little.

So you admit that draft position does mean something, and that there is some advantage in drafting higher. We merely disagree on the degree of that difference.

My point, which no one can refute, is losing now doesn't equal success later and that is why rooting to lose for draft position is stupid.

It's doesn't necessarily equal success, but it does increase the chances, as you've now admitted.

Cool.

 

[BearsWillWin]

We drafted Cedric Benson with the 4th overall pick in the draft....

we went to the superbowl that year?

we were the 4th worst team in football the year we drafted Benson... we went to the superbowl that year?

By the way, since you said you can remember the record of every team for the past 25 years...........

The Bears drafted Benson after the 04-05 season. His rookie year they won the division and lost to the Panthers in the playoffs. The next year is when they went to the Superbowl, 06-07.

You may want to check your memory.

 

[mecha]

Would anyone argue that "fat" Jeffery is lesser than the other receivers taken in the first last year?

What about the stats of first round busts? I'm just wondering. Tom Brady was taken in the 6th. Teams that are perennial playoff contenders aren't going to be drafting within the top 10 picks.. They seem to keep bearing fruit from the draft. I'm sure certain positions get picked higher to begin with like QBs or DEs. Mostly based on what they did at the college level which doesn't really indicate what they can do in the NFL by any means.

 

[BearsWillWin]

Ah, now the crank is starting to move a little.

So you admit that draft position does mean something, and that there is some advantage in drafting higher. We merely disagree on the degree of that difference.

I haven't moved the crank at all. There is no evidence to suggest drafting higher is an advantage because for every Andrew Luck there is more than one Jamarcus Russell.

It's doesn't necessarily equal success, but it does increase the chances, as you've now admitted.

When did I admit that?

In doesn't increase the chances. There is no proof of it.

If it did you wouldn't see teams like Jacksonville that routinely miss the playoffs.

 

[Chris Sojka]

Not the point he's making, genius.

He's saying talent can be found all over the draft, not just in the top 15, which even in a 'lose out' scenario the bears wont get Clowney anyways.

Do either of you understand what a fucking NFL projection is? or are you that new to football?

FFS if a player projects to be a career backup like Tom Brady and ends up turning into a 3 time Superbowl Champion and League MVP then wtf does that have to do with him actually turning out..

If New England or any other team projected him as a 3 time superbowl champ and future league MVP then he would have went in the 1st not the 6th round...

Get a fucking clue...

 

[BearsWillWin]

Get a fucking clue...

Because clearing projected player success is equal to actual player success?

If it were.........would the first round bust rate be around 50%, which is actually is, for the past 10 years in the NFL?


If you're the greatest mind on this board..............this board is fucked.

 

[Chris Sojka]

I wasn't arguing that we should load up on 6th round picks. But that didn't stop you from trying to pretend I did.



Moot point. We have no chance at Clowney outside of trading up this year. 6-10 won't get you Clowney and that is the worst this team can finish.



Clearly you enjoy trying to argue points I never made.

Let me say it again.......

Losing now doesn't equal automatic success later. So no fan should be rooting for losses.

So your point is... You don't know what will make us successful later... just that losing now definitely won't make us better because better draft picks don't necessarily get drafted earlier?

What is the point of the draft order if not to attempt to help balance the league and help the teams with lesser talent compete with the teams that have more talent?

 

[patg006]

Do either of you understand what a fucking NFL projection is? or are you that new to football?

FFS if a player projects to be a career backup like Tom Brady and ends up turning into a 3 time Superbowl Champion and League MVP then wtf does that have to do with him actually turning out..

If New England or any other team projected him as a 3 time superbowl champ and future league MVP then he would have went in the 1st not the 6th round...

Get a fucking clue...

Oh shit, captain revisionist history is here!

Were surely doomed now........

 

[Chris Sojka]

Because clearing projected player success is equal to actual player success?

If it were.........would the first round bust rate be around 50%, which is actually is, for the past 10 years in the NFL?


If you're the greatest mind on this board..............this board is fucked.

So wait the 1st round is 50% bust...

what is the 2nd round turnout?

then the 3rd round turnout?

would those stats suggest that the later you draft the worse your chances are on striking gold on a projected talent? the answer is yes

 

[rhino369]

1) You can't purposely tank when you still have a shot ( even though it's maybe 15% chance) to make the playoffs. You look like weak ass bitches and the coach will lose the players respect.

2) Of course higher draft picks give you better shots at getting better players.

3) But it's only a probability of getting better players. And even then, the players are only marginally better.

4) Nobody in the NFL tanks games. So the common wisdom is that it's not worth it. That doesn't mean it's not worth it, but it gives that opinion some weight.

 

[Chris Sojka]

By the way, since you said you can remember the record of every team for the past 25 years...........

The Bears drafted Benson after the 04-05 season. His rookie year they won the division and lost to the Panthers in the playoffs. The next year is when they went to the Superbowl, 06-07.

You may want to check your memory.

Either way we went from a shitty team to a winning the division and then the next year ended up in the Superbowl... So we went from really bad to superbowl contenders in 2 years

 

[Chris Sojka]

1) You can't purposely tank when you still have a shot ( even though it's maybe 15% chance) to make the playoffs. You look like weak ass bitches and the coach will lose the players respect.

2) Of course higher draft picks give you better shots at getting better players.

3) But it's only a probability of getting better players. And even then, the players are only marginally better.

4) Nobody in the NFL tanks games. So the common wisdom is that it's not worth it. That doesn't mean it's not worth it, but it gives that opinion some weight.

Suck for luck didn't happen? Curtis Painter wasn't set up to fail and the team didn't tank the season? they could have traded for a QB... they could have released Painter and picked up a FA to come in and try and turn it around... they didn't

they tanked the season... now stfu... get a clue

 

[BearsWillWin]

So your point is... You don't know what will make us successful later... just that losing now definitely won't make us better because better draft picks don't necessarily get drafted earlier?

Holy shit! You can read. I was beginning to wonder.

What is the point of the draft order if not to attempt to help balance the league and help the teams with lesser talent compete with the teams that have more talent?

And it works when GMs spot the right talent. It doesn't when they don't. A great GM though can find players to help his team regardless of draft position.

The first round tends to be a crap shoot.

 

[BearsWillWin]

would those stats suggest that the later you draft the worse your chances are on striking gold on a projected talent? the answer is yes

What they suggest is that drafting 5th doesn't mean you will get a better player than the team drafting 25th.

 

[BearsWillWin]

Either way we went from a shitty team to a winning the division and then the next year ended up in the Superbowl... So we went from really bad to superbowl contenders in 2 years

But did we do so because we drafted 4th in the first round?

That is a yes or no question...........please answer.

 

[patg006]

Suck for luck didn't happen? Curtis Painter wasn't set up to fail and the team didn't tank the season? they could have traded for a QB... they could have released Painter and picked up a FA to come in and try and turn it around... they didn't

they tanked the season... now stfu... get a clue

They had the 3rd toughest schedule, Peyton Manning got injured, Jim Caldwell was a terrible coach post-Dungy.

And I didn't know a team tanking for the #1 pick found a way to beat the division champ Texans or spoil the Titans, who ended up missing the playoffs that year with Curtis Painter as their quarterback.

Dan Orlovsky started and lost a game stepping out of bounds for a safety.

No, it was an inside job to get Andrew Luck.

You're the one who needs to stfu and get a clue.

 

[rhino369]

The Colts sucked that year, but it wasn't an intentional sucking. They didn't sell out their future by trading away future draft picks but they didn't purposely lose either. They switched QBs after Painter sucked it up for 2/3 of a season. They won 2 games, nearly losing that top draft pick. If it was intentional they were doing a poor job.

There are plenty of teams who are totally out of contention right now. Why aren't they all tanking? Hey maybe that Viking committed the facemask so they can get Johhny Manzel.