Is Jay Cutler salary cap hit, the problem everyone proclaims it to be?

[Broc]

In response to post 65. I agree that the QB position isn't immune to a rebuild but Pace also isn't going to gut Cutler because he ruined your life broc.

Well no shit he's not going to do it because of me... he's going to do it because he doesn't want to get fired after 3 seasons hitching his wagon to Cutler like the last guy did.

Pace is paying average money at the QB position for an average QB, hardly to premium amount you have seem to fabricate. Sadly QB's get paid big money even if they are average. The contract has been team friendly for sometime now.

I think we have different ideas of what "team friendly" entails. Tom Brady's $14m salary with the Pats is "team friendly". They're getting league leading production for a below average cost. The Bills paying $800k for Tyrod Taylor (#6 w/103QBR) is "team friendly".

Paying $16m for #18th production isn't exactly what I'd call "team friendly". When you consider the sunk cost of that $54m guaranteed and $18m last year it's even less friendly. Just because new QB contracts keep going up doesn't mean our situation is preferable and we should be content to stand pat and do nothing.

Would it not be more "team friendly" for Pace to draft a 2nd or 3rd rounder that could put the team in a Russell Wilson type situation allowing him more money to building up the rest of the team around him like the Seahaws did? Clearly that's the ideal scenario is it not?

Now whether or not Pace is capable of drafting as well as they did building that team is another story but that's clearly the rebuild path I'd prefer the team follow as opposed to just continue trotting Cutler out there for the next 3 years repeating the same failed experiment hoping for different results.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Not just my words...

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000552279/article/qb-index-quarterseason-rankings-132

"Middle of the Pack" aka "Average"

http://fansided.com/2015/11/04/nfl-quarterback-rankings-week-9/

"Jason Campbell Division" :lmao:




I already have.. Alex Smith makes $15m this year, Tannehill makes $11m but neither of them were offseason options.

Hoyer making $5.2m was, Fitzpatrick making $3.2m was, McCown making $4m was and in hindsight should of been kept instead of extending Cutler that completely ridiculous contract.



You're missing my point. My point is that these scrub journeyman QB's out performing Cutler for cent's on the dollar puts a nail in the coffin of the "it's impossible to find an upgrade at QB so might as well not bother" narrative some here push. As if the idea of moving on from Cutler dooms the team to suck, which to me seems like an odd thing to fear when the team already sucks even with him. I simply disagree with the folks that come up with excuses for why we should stand pat and not attempt to improve the position.

When you're paying $16.5m for #18th ranked production clearly there is room for improvement. And if Pace isn't looking to improve the QB position just like every other position on the roster he's a shit GM. Throwing more 5th and 6th rounders (David Fales, Dan LeFevour, and Nathan Enderle) or UFA's (Hanie and Shane Carden) at the problem hoping to strike gold clearly hasn't worked and is a pretty shit strategy moving forward.

No, you are missing the point. Cutler is BETTER than Hoyer and McCown... the best FA options. I don't care what kind of 3 game stretch either of those 2 had. The career stats back this up.

You can get a below average QB for 3 million. But as soon as you become an established "average" QB, you are getting 12-18 million a year. A team would RATHER have an average established QB at that price as their FUCKING STARTER than a below average QB for 3 million.

 

[Larsonite]

Well no shit he's not going to do it because of me... he's going to do it because he doesn't want to get fired after 3 seasons hitching his wagon to Cutler like the last guy did.



I think we have different ideas of what "team friendly" entails. Tom Brady's $14m salary with the Pats is "team friendly". They're getting league leading production for a below average cost. The Bills paying $800k for Tyrod Taylor (#6 w/103QBR) is "team friendly".

Paying $16m for #18th production isn't exactly what I'd call "team friendly". When you consider the sunk cost of that $54m guaranteed and $18m last year it's even less friendly. Just because new QB contracts keep going up doesn't mean our situation is preferable and we should be content to stand pat and do nothing.

Would it not be more "team friendly" for Pace to draft a 2nd or 3rd rounder that could put the team in a Russell Wilson type situation allowing him more money to building up the rest of the team around him like the Seahaws did? Clearly that's the ideal scenario is it not?

Now whether or not Pace is capable of drafting as well as they did building that team is another story but that's clearly the rebuild path I'd prefer the team follow as opposed to just continue trotting Cutler out there for the next 3 years repeating the same failed experiment hoping for different results.

How many years had Brady made more than 14 mill and given his endorsements,he makes far more than that. He's kind of the exception not the rule.

And if you expect to draft the next Russell Wilson with a 2nd or 3rd, you're nuts. Again, the exception, not the rule.

Lastly, all Cutler has to do is play better than he currently is and he's more than worth his contract. Given no WRs or his oline is shit, and he's in a new system, my guess is he will.

Sent from a spaghetti monster circling the earth

 

[PrideisBears]

Well no shit he's not going to do it because of me... he's going to do it because he doesn't want to get fired after 3 seasons hitching his wagon to Cutler like the last guy did.



I think we have different ideas of what "team friendly" entails. Tom Brady's $14m salary with the Pats is "team friendly". They're getting league leading production for a below average cost. The Bills paying $800k for Tyrod Taylor (#6 w/103QBR) is "team friendly".

Paying $16m for #18th production isn't exactly what I'd call "team friendly". When you consider the sunk cost of that $54m guaranteed and $18m last year it's even less friendly. Just because new QB contracts keep going up doesn't mean our situation is preferable and we should be content to stand pat and do nothing.

Would it not be more "team friendly" for Pace to draft a 2nd or 3rd rounder that could put the team in a Russell Wilson type situation allowing him more money to building up the rest of the team around him like the Seahaws did? Clearly that's the ideal scenario is it not?

Now whether or not Pace is capable of drafting as well as they did building that team is another story but that's clearly the rebuild path I'd prefer the team follow as opposed to just continue trotting Cutler out there for the next 3 years repeating the same failed experiment hoping for different results.

I guess we do have different opinions on team friendly because Cutler's contract can easily be cut. Using Brady and whoever the **** the bills QB doesn't deflate my argument. Brady's contract is structured differently and citing whoever the bills QB's passer rating doesn't mean anything. I bet yohlu had no idea who he was till the start of this season. If you think I'm on the never draft a QB wagon, you are mistaken. I've wanted one for about three years now. I know Cutler's time is closing

 

[Warrior Spirit]

How many years had Brady made more than 14 mill and given his endorsements,he makes far more than that. He's kind of the exception not the rule.

And if you expect to draft the next Russell Wilson with a 2nd or 3rd, you're nuts. Again, the exception, not the rule.

Lastly, all Cutler has to do is play better than he currently is and he's more than worth his contract. Given no WRs or his oline is shit, and he's in a new system, my guess is he will.

Sent from a spaghetti monster circling the earth

No we're talking endorsements? Haha. Think everybody has missed the point of this situation from the OP on. It's not that he's not worthy of the salary and it would better be spent elsewhere but this is a guy who's never been held accountable and then that big eared Emery gave him a contract that gave him further protection. Let's be honest, I seriously doubt he'd even be on the Bears this year if the cap wasn't going to be so insurmountable. Here the Bears sit at 2-5. That's what a Jay Cutler gets you.

 

[PrideisBears]

Spartan, can you leave so we can have a real football discussion for once? Your useless,inane regurgitation of " Jay is a loser" is worn out and unappreciated

 

[Thibetanus]

No we're talking endorsements? Haha. Think everybody has missed the point of this situation from the OP on. It's not that he's not worthy of the salary and it would better be spent elsewhere but this is a guy who's never been held accountable and then that big eared Emery gave him a contract that gave him further protection. Let's be honest, I seriously doubt he'd even be on the Bears this year if the cap wasn't going to be so insurmountable. Here the Bears sit at 2-5. That's what a Jay Cutler gets you.

By your last sentence, Ravens 2-6, Chargers 2-6, guess that's what Rivers and Flacco gets you eh?

 

[Larsonite]

No, you are missing the point. Cutler is BETTER than Hoyer and McCown... the best FA options. I don't care what kind of 3 game stretch either of those 2 had. The career stats back this up.

You can get a below average QB for 3 million. But as soon as you become an established "average" QB, you are getting 12-18 million a year. A team would RATHER have an average established QB at that price as their FUCKING STARTER than a below average QB for 3 million.

Or go into the draft wishing upon a star they draft a QB that is better than Cutler given how many young QBs fail and cost their team development time. Gabbert, RG3, Manziel, Weeden, Bradford... there's so many more first round failures but they're out of the league! You've got about a 40% chance of a bust in the first round, 20% average and 40% successful starter. That's a 60% chance you've wasted a pick, money and time. But even those numbers are skewed as the number one overall pick has a much much higher success rate of 60%. If you're not picking first overall, you've got a 30% success rate of finding a QB better than Cutler in the first round. Second round is 20%.

Sent from a spaghetti monster circling the earth

 

[Larsonite]

No we're talking endorsements? Haha. Think everybody has missed the point of this situation from the OP on. It's not that he's not worthy of the salary and it would better be spent elsewhere but this is a guy who's never been held accountable and then that big eared Emery gave him a contract that gave him further protection. Let's be honest, I seriously doubt he'd even be on the Bears this year if the cap wasn't going to be so insurmountable. Here the Bears sit at 2-5. That's what a Jay Cutler gets you.

Nah

Sent from a spaghetti monster circling the earth

 

[Broc]

Cutler is BETTER than Hoyer and McCown...

On paper. In reality, this season, he's being out played.

You can get a below average QB for 3 million. But as soon as you become an established "average" QB, you are getting 12-18 million a year. A team would RATHER have an average established QB at that price as their FUCKING STARTER than a below average QB for 3 million.

Sure if they're a contending team obviously they'd rather have the better player, but the Bears aren't a contending team and won't be any time soon. I see little reason to continue overpaying at the QB position if it's no longer necessary. The team is 12-20 under Cutler the past 3 years with 1 playoff appearance. We can sign any FA off the street to continue losing games and not making the playoffs while Pace rebuilds the rest of the roster.

 

[Broc]

Or go into the draft wishing upon a star they draft a QB that is better than Cutler given how many young QBs fail and cost their team development time. Gabbert, RG3, Manziel, Weeden, Bradford... there's so many more first round failures but they're out of the league! You've got about a 40% chance of a bust in the first round, 20% average and 40% successful starter. That's a 60% chance you've wasted a pick, money and time. But even those numbers are skewed as the number one overall pick has a much much higher success rate of 60%. If you're not picking first overall, you've got a 30% success rate of finding a QB better than Cutler in the first round. Second round is 20%.

So what's the plan then Larsonite? Pace rebuilds the team and we wish upon a star that Cutler can finally get it done in his 14th or whatever season?

 

[WindyCity]

Average money, with little left guaranteed.

I don't think that his contract will factor in much to the decision on Cutler.

The Bears will struggle to spend the 70 million in cap space they will have.

 

[WindyCity]

So what's the plan then Larsonite? Pace rebuilds the team and we wish upon a star that Cutler can finally get it done in his 14th or whatever season?

Let Cutler play for 2016 maybe 2017 while you groom his replacement.

Let him take the hits that will come with rebuilding and developing an OL.
Let him help Jeffery continue to develop and White to get settled in the NFL.

When you have the next guy ready trade and or cut him.

 

[Broc]

Let Cutler play for 2016 maybe 2017 while you groom his replacement.

Let him take the hits that will come with rebuilding and developing an OL.
Let him help Jeffery continue to develop and White to get settled in the NFL.

When you have the next guy ready trade and or cut him.

I'm actually fine with keeping Cutler around for another year or two.. I'd just prefer it be in a backup role because Pace hit on a 2nd rounder. Call me crazy but I'd much rather see the next QB develop on the field along with the rest of the team that way they're both "ready" at the same time. Do you really want to waste the newly rebuilt teams "window" finding out the new QB that's been on the bench watching Cutler play actually sucks when they finally put him out there? I don't.

 

[PolarBear]

So many more pressing needs and problems.

First the Bears need to upgrade the O-line, get about 3 new CB's (two that can actually start), an ILB, another edge rusher and probably another decent DE in their rotation.

 

[Bearly]

I'm actually fine with keeping Cutler around for another year or two.. I'd just prefer it be in a backup role because Pace hit on a 2nd rounder. Call me crazy but I'd much rather see the next QB develop on the field along with the rest of the team that way they're both "ready" at the same time. Do you really want to waste the newly rebuilt teams "window" finding out the new QB that's been on the bench watching Cutler play actually sucks when they finally put him out there? I don't.

You crazy guy.

 

[Broc]

So many more pressing needs and problems.

First the Bears need to upgrade the O-line, get about 3 new CB's (two that can actually start), an ILB, another edge rusher and probably another decent DE in their rotation.

Sorry but unless your team already has an elite QB it's always going to be you're biggest and most pressing need. All the others positions you mention can far more easily be addressed in FA compared to the FA QB market which is an even bigger joke than it was last year.

You've got Trumaine Johnson, Janoris Jenkins, or Josh Norman for CB help... Marshal Yanda or Okung for Oline help.... Derrick Johnson, Rolando McClain, Brandon Marshall for ILB help... Bruce Irvin, Aldon Smith for pass rush help... Muhammad Wilkerson if you want another stud DE.

If you want a legit QB prospect with an actual chance to develop into something you're going to have to invest a high pick. They don't HAVE to take one in the 1st, a 2nd or 3rd works too, but this strategy of waiting until the 5th or 6th rounds to take whatever is left on the scrap heap is simply not cutting it.

 

[Willis1524]

Sorry but unless your team already has an elite QB it's always going to be you're biggest and most pressing need. All the others positions you mention can far more easily be addressed in FA compared to the FA QB market which is an even bigger joke than it was last year.

You've got Trumaine Johnson, Janoris Jenkins, or Josh Norman for CB help... Marshal Yanda or Okung for Oline help.... Derrick Johnson, Rolando McClain, Brandon Marshall for ILB help... Bruce Irvin, Aldon Smith for pass rush help... Muhammad Wilkerson if you want another stud DE.

If you want a legit QB prospect with an actual chance to develop into something you're going to have to invest a high pick. They don't HAVE to take one in the 1st, a 2nd or 3rd works too, but this strategy of waiting until the 5th or 6th rounds to take whatever is left on the scrap heap is simply not cutting it.

I agree with this. Its time to invest a high draft pick at QB.

 

[Larsonite]

So what's the plan then Larsonite? Pace rebuilds the team and we wish upon a star that Cutler can finally get it done in his 14th or whatever season?

Build the defense and oline so you have an asset. Draft a QB not to replace Cutler but to be his back up and learn the offense and how to be a pro. The back up will tell you, by his play in practice, when it's time to move on from Cutler. But don't expect to get a higher return than you have at the moment.

Given all the needs we currently have, it'll take time for all of this to come to fruition. Building around Cutler will not only be beneficial for him but for the next QB. But that time won't be for another 3 years given Cutler's contract, the time it takes to properly develop a QB and the resources needed to build the rest of the team.

I have no problem with drafting a QB this offseason but I do think we have more pressing needs than replacing Cutler. Even if we do draft a QB, will it be worth the savings in 2017-2018 if he's not ready and isn't very good?

Keep in mind the draft pick you're using on a position that takes the most time for a positive return. It could mean the defense or oline is missing a potential key contributor.

Let's say we take a CB and LB with our first two picks. It's your pick and you've got an option of drafting the 5th rated QB or the 3rd rated OG. The QB will take a few years to be ready to play and has a low percentage of being a quality starter but the OG could start day one and should be a solid starter. What would you do? I take the OG because I think it will help immediately and is a much safer pick. I then consider each round after that to draft a QB, not to replace Cutler, but Clausen.

What i like about this approach is that we can focus a year or two on the rest of the team and still develop a back up. In 2017-2018 I make it a priority to draft a high round QB. In 2019 We can cut Cutler and play the late round pick we've developed, restructure Cutler for a few more years or play the young QB we drafted a year or two ago. But by then the answer should be clearer.

In short, I wait on drafting a high round QB for at least a year or two.

Sent from a spaghetti monster circling the earth

 

[PolarBear]

Sorry but unless your team already has an elite QB it's always going to be you're biggest and most pressing need. All the others positions you mention can far more easily be addressed in FA compared to the FA QB market which is an even bigger joke than it was last year.

You've got Trumaine Johnson, Janoris Jenkins, or Josh Norman for CB help... Marshal Yanda or Okung for Oline help.... Derrick Johnson, Rolando McClain, Brandon Marshall for ILB help... Bruce Irvin, Aldon Smith for pass rush help... Muhammad Wilkerson if you want another stud DE.

If you want a legit QB prospect with an actual chance to develop into something you're going to have to invest a high pick. They don't HAVE to take one in the 1st, a 2nd or 3rd works too, but this strategy of waiting until the 5th or 6th rounds to take whatever is left on the scrap heap is simply not cutting it.

I am with you about taking a high rated prospect. What I don't want the Bears to do is go into this next draft saying we have to take a QB this year in the first 3 rounds and pass up on studs at other positions that the Bears could plug in as starters. I do not see a QB being worthy of a top 10 pick this year. Cook is close but I don't see him being any better than Jay.

Why not rebuild the rest of the team around Jay properly and have a crack at the playoffs over the next two seasons? If there is a QB prospect there you like over the next two off-seasons, by all means take him but I just don't see any top guys being worthy THIS YEAR.