IST Cubs at Pirates

[DanTown]

Thats a bit over dramatic and he is now at over 50% k rate for the month of September. Yet again, if he continues to struggle his glove isn't substantially better than Baez or Castro if the bat is no where near. This isn't July. This is a playoff push. Maddon said moving Castro off short probably wouldn't have happened if he wasn't hitting so bad. I would sense they think the same about Russell. This isn't to hurt anyone feelings. This is putting your best lineup to win every night.

The difference between Russell batting ninth or say Castro is negligible where as Russell right now has defensive stats that are top 3-5 in the NL for the SS position and is a massive positive over what Starlin can do at the position. And this doesn't get into the whole fact that Russell is just 21 and you're not going to start benching 21 year olds who have a bad two weeks. And considering the fact Russell was playing well before this two week stretch, this seems like an overreaction to a bad two weeks.

 

[Parade_Rain]

44 posts since March of 2009 and the majority of them are in the Cubs forum the past couple of days. I wonder who DanTown is?

 

[brett05]

Hopefully Arrieta can go 7-8+ tonight.

Would really help to save the bullpen down the stretch.

I'm in love with pitching so I am rooting for Jake tonight.

 

[SilenceS]

The difference between Russell batting ninth or say Castro is negligible where as Russell right now has defensive stats that are top 3-5 in the NL for the SS position and is a massive positive over what Starlin can do at the position. And this doesn't get into the whole fact that Russell is just 21 and you're not going to start benching 21 year olds who have a bad two weeks. And considering the fact Russell was playing well before this two week stretch, this seems like an overreaction to a bad two weeks.

Its a bad 129 at bats. He is K'ing over 35% and batting around .210. I don't care that he is 21. It is a playoff push. You don't go oh well, lets burn because he is 21. the Cubs have options. Russell is going to have to go into a rotation sooner or later if he continues to do nothing at the plate. You forget Baez plays SS as well.

 

[willycat]

Its a bad 129 at bats. He is K'ing over 35% and batting around .210. I don't care that he is 21. It is a playoff push. You don't go oh well, lets burn because he is 21. the Cubs have options. Russell is going to have to go into a rotation sooner or later if he continues to do nothing at the plate. You forget Baez plays SS as well.

Except Baez hasn't played SS in the majors, except maybe as a fill-in for inning or two. There is no comparison between Russell and Castro in the field or in age and Castro is still only OK at bat.

 

[chibears55]

I'll have to disagree with you to a point here. I think you do look at numbers when you're building a team and not hope for a guy to be what he isn't. As an example Jon Lester is bad in April every damned year, this year there was dead arm which made it even worse but it wasn't the sole reason for him not being good that month. Cubs fans were shocked by his April performance but the evidence is in the numbers. Contrast with the fact that Lester also pitches his best ball in late August into September. That's your mitigating factor in why you'd want him on your team. Hammel is a bad second half pitcher. The numbers bear that out as well. People tried to justify last year for Hammel by saying he only had two bad starts for the A's which dragged his numbers down. Well that's not the whole truth he had two atrocious starts for Oakland and was average the rest of the time. That leads to a bad second half pitcher. The Cubs knew that too which is why they went out looking for a #3 starter at the deadline. They found the price to be too high and passed. I have no doubt that they know what Hammel is though and I also don't blame them for not mortgaging the future for a 2015 playoff run. Rock meets hard place. Hammel is what he is, the numbers in the second half tell that story. I don't blame fish for being fish or athletes being exactly who the numbers tell you they are.

I said I dont look at pitchers AS numbers ...
Meaning a 1 2 or 3 starting pitcher



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[SilenceS]

Except Baez hasn't played SS in the majors, except maybe as a fill-in for inning or two. There is no comparison between Russell and Castro in the field or in age and Castro is still only OK at bat.

What? Baez played SS the entire time Castro was out last year. Castro with the bat this month has been out standing and in his last 100 at bats is hitting with an OPS over .850. Russell OPS is in the .700 area plus the 35% K rate. These are significant gaps. Yet again, I am not saying bench him but simply go in a rotation and play the hot hand. He has been awful for awhile not just for a week.

 

[CSF77]

No, my issue is with him..

I dont look at major league pitchers as numbers, i look at them as starting pitchers in the major league that despite what their paid are being paid to get hitters out and keep their team in games for a chance to win..

I dont expect pitchers to be right all 30+ starts, csuse yes there going to be a couple bumps... i just expect consistency throughout the season, not a great first half and horrible second. .

if the cubs are to be yearly playoff contenders now, they need to find starters who wont kill the bullpen in 2nd half and not put all the pressure on other starters to win..

He is being paid around 10 mil per. That is back of the rotation cash. That is what level he is performing at

First half his numbers were front of the rotation. Should they prorate that to him? Front of the rotation make 20 mil per. Seeing how his front end should be worth 10 mil and he only made 5 should they bonus him?

No and your point is just as ridiculous

 

[CSF77]

Except Baez hasn't played SS in the majors, except maybe as a fill-in for inning or two. There is no comparison between Russell and Castro in the field or in age and Castro is still only OK at bat.

Think he started a day

 

[CSF77]

What? Baez played SS the entire time Castro was out last year. Castro with the bat this month has been out standing and in his last 100 at bats is hitting with an OPS over .850. Russell OPS is in the .700 area plus the 35% K rate. These are significant gaps. Yet again, I am not saying bench him but simply go in a rotation and play the hot hand. He has been awful for awhile not just for a week.

I get it. You are not a fan of his. Meh

Still there is little problem going on now. With Soler out they are rotating them. The thing is it is not just Russell who needs time off it is Bryant also.

All things considered Maddon has done a very good job managing the situation. His first concern is giving rest vs playing the hot hand

 

[CSF77]

The biggest problem has been Schwarber. When he came up the O exploded. Now he is struggling. Most likely the rookie wall. That has been the biggest concern vs Russell 's production.

All about impact. Russell is a complementary player as is Castro and Coghland. Bryant, Baez, Schwarber and Rizzo are the guys that can put the team on their back. If they slump then it makes for a long day. You just hope one of them are hot that day

 

[chibears55]

He is being paid around 10 mil per. That is back of the rotation cash. That is what level he is performing at

First half his numbers were front of the rotation. Should they prorate that to him? Front of the rotation make 20 mil per. Seeing how his front end should be worth 10 mil and he only made 5 should they bonus him?

No and your point is just as ridiculous

I never said I cared how much he got paid or any pitcher for that matter..
All ive originally said was that id prefer a starter who consistent year round. . Not great in 1st half and suck in 2nd..
So.. your whole point and post was ridiculous

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[chibears55]

And Russell sits tonight with Baez at SS and Castro at 2B...

See how easy that was..lol


CHC at PIT: Fowler CF, Schwarber LF, Coghlan RF, Rizzo 1B, Bryant 3B, Montero C, Castro 2B, Baez SS, Arrieta P

2 games in row maddon has pitcher hitting 9th..
Wonder what change for him.

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[TC in Mississippi]

I said I dont look at pitchers AS numbers ...
Meaning a 1 2 or 3 starting pitcher



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You have to though. They are slotted like that for a reason. Now where they actually fall in the rotation varies. Hammel is still outperforming his career numbers but he's paid like a fringe 3 or 4 for a reason and that's where his numbers tend to fall. He's not there at the end. There have always been guys like that. Teams often ride them until the slide and then hopefully they have a guy outperforming his numbers in the second half, which the Cubs don't have, or go get a guy to move him down the order which the Cubs were unable to do. What you said, essentially, was that you hold him responsible for his second half performance, I don't disagree that there is an element of that, but really the guy is who he is and he's 33 years old. I find it hard to get mad, or even that frustrated, with a guy who does what he always does.

 

[chibears55]

You have to though. They are slotted like that for a reason. Now where they actually fall in the rotation varies. Hammel is still outperforming his career numbers but he's paid like a fringe 3 or 4 for a reason and that's where his numbers tend to fall. He's not there at the end. There have always been guys like that. Teams often ride them until the slide and then hopefully they have a guy outperforming his numbers in the second half, which the Cubs don't have, or go get a guy to move him down the order which the Cubs were unable to do. What you said, essentially, was that you hold him responsible for his second half performance, I don't disagree that there is an element of that, but really the guy is who he is and he's 33 years old. I find it hard to get mad, or even that frustrated, with a guy who does what he always does.

What they get paid as, etc doesn't concern me

All I care about and my whole point is RESULTS

Your in the rotation for 30 + starts.. when it your turn to pitch , just do your job and give your team a chance to win. ..

Hammel did his job for most to all the first 15 starts, not so much his last 13 starts...

Wheather im paying a guy 7 mil or 17 mil a year, I expect him to be consistent and pitch good all 30 + starts not half or a certain amount depending on how much he paid or where he pitches in rotation. .

If he cant do his job and I understand their gonna have some bad games , then we find someone else who will.

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[TC in Mississippi]

What they get paid as, etc doesn't concern me

All I care about and my whole point is RESULTS

Your in the rotation for 30 + starts.. when it your turn to pitch , just do your job and give your team a chance to win. ..

Hammel did his job for most to all the first 15 starts, not so much his last 13 starts...

Wheather im paying a guy 7 mil or 17 mil a year, I expect him to be consistent and pitch good all 30 + starts not half or a certain amount depending on how much he paid or where he pitches in rotation. .

If he cant do his job and I understand their gonna have some bad games , then we find someone else who will.

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They will find someone else who will. I'm a little confused do you think this is lack of effort on Hammels part? Do you think he wants to be bad? Because I see a competitor who is pissed when he gets taken out of games and is more that happy to take the ball every fifth day and give it was he has. I think the lack of results is a byproduct of who he his. Maybe his arm gets tired. Maybe his arm slot moves a little due to season long fatigue and he can't find that rhythm that he needs to pitch like he did earlier in the season. I don't see any lack of effort and he's considered a hard worker. Again I see a guy who is what he is at 33 years of age. I'm not positive what you expect.

I want to see Hammell as no higher than a 4 slot next year and better the 5. If he was off the team I'd be happy. I have no animus towards the guy though.

 

[CSF77]

The whole point is he performed better than expected the first half and the 2nd half he fell down to what they paid for.

If you want a level of production you have to pony up for it. They opted to take the discount.

Not Hammel's fault. He is not this guy that you as a fan expected

So yes in a round about way what I posted was dead on. They did not pay for that level of production. That costs in the 15 mil range.

 

[JZsportsfan]

Russell has been playing at a much higher level in the 2nd half, maybe he wants him to get more ABs over the course of a game. Would make sense

 

[CSF77]

Russell has been playing at a much higher level in the 2nd half, maybe he wants him to get more ABs over the course of a game. Would make sense

My honest opinion. Gloss over. That decision was made the day they traded Shark. Castro's brain farts at SS were becoming a embarrassment to the company. This is a team trying to gain creditabity after tossing out fake managers and position players. The Russell deal was a robbery nothing less.

So yes it was bound to happen. It is coming at a time where the Cubs a becoming the media darlings again. Or inother words cash cow. And another Castro sleeping or looking at butterfly's moment on ESPN would make nanagment look like bone heads for tossing him out there.

Some times it is not about the numbers. This time I believe it was about credability

 

[chibears55]

They will find someone else who will. I'm a little confused do you think this is lack of effort on Hammels part? Do you think he wants to be bad? Because I see a competitor who is pissed when he gets taken out of games and is more that happy to take the ball every fifth day and give it was he has. I think the lack of results is a byproduct of who he his. Maybe his arm gets tired. Maybe his arm slot moves a little due to season long fatigue and he can't find that rhythm that he needs to pitch like he did earlier in the season. I don't see any lack of effort and he's considered a hard worker. Again I see a guy who is what he is at 33 years of age. I'm not positive what you expect.

I want to see Hammell as no higher than a 4 slot next year and better the 5. If he was off the team I'd be happy. I have no animus towards the guy though.

I see a guy who hasn't performed well his last 13 starts as his 5 + ERA indicates. .
Not about his effort or being a competitor. .

His results are bad...

I wont be sad if they move him in off season and upgrade over him..

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