IST: Cubs vs. Brewers

[TL1961]

This board needs a giant tampon!

 

[Jorgeramos]

This board needs a giant tampon!

So do the players.

 

[beckdawg]

Should of been listening to me...����

I'm not 100% gonna say they won't make it..

It just on paper you expect a whole lot more then the performance we see on a nightly basis..too much talent on this team for the inconsistencies...

Why it been frustrating..

Also..

It goes to the front office maybe not doing enough to address needs before deadline especially with bullpen ..
Wilson wasn't enough

Maddon with some of his lineup and bullpen decisions..
No.. we don't know what said behind the doors but damn it just don't seem like he getting these guys up and going for these games..

The players.... we're in September, you got a chance to do what very very few teams are able to do..
Win another division title and a shot at winning back to back WS..

How do you not get up and motivated for that every game..
where that fire in the belly being at home this weekend playing a division rival with a shot at taking them out of contention..


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Think it's less to do with before the deadline moves and more to do with waiver moves. The cubs were doing quite well up until Arrieta/Lester got hurt and it pushed Monty into the rotation. And obviously Wilson has been pretty crap but the idea there was presumably for him to have a bigger impact than he has. I obviously wasn't a fan of that move to begin with but that was the logic behind it. Had they managed to keep Monty in the pen I think they would have been fine from a BP standpoint.

As for the players, I just don't buy the idea that they lack passion. I think it's tired rhetoric in sports because if you see the shit the players to through just to prepare for a season I find it incredibly unlikely they are going to say yeah **** it I don't care. Also I don't buy it because wanting to get hits badly doesn't make it happen. I do agree they aren't playing 100% but my reasoning as to why is fatigue. They've had 4 days off in 2 months and I doubt Heyward Rizzo and Bryant have even sat on non-days off since then. I certainly don't recall any games off hand. Javy likely too has played every day save for the one he got hurt sliding into 2nd and the next day.

Ultimately they are going to have to start winning games again to make the playoffs. But the "why" they aren't winning has nothing to do with passion.

 

[Globetrotter]

15-0

Perfect time for a Schwarber HR.

 

[chibears55]

Think it's less to do with before the deadline moves and more to do with waiver moves. The cubs were doing quite well up until Arrieta/Lester got hurt and it pushed Monty into the rotation. And obviously Wilson has been pretty crap but the idea there was presumably for him to have a bigger impact than he has. I obviously wasn't a fan of that move to begin with but that was the logic behind it. Had they managed to keep Monty in the pen I think they would have been fine from a BP standpoint.

As for the players, I just don't buy the idea that they lack passion. I think it's tired rhetoric in sports because if you see the shit the players to through just to prepare for a season I find it incredibly unlikely they are going to say yeah **** it I don't care. Also I don't buy it because wanting to get hits badly doesn't make it happen. I do agree they aren't playing 100% but my reasoning as to why is fatigue. They've had 4 days off in 2 months and I doubt Heyward Rizzo and Bryant have even sat on non-days off since then. I certainly don't recall any games off hand. Javy likely too has played every day save for the one he got hurt sliding into 2nd and the next day.

Ultimately they are going to have to start winning games again to make the playoffs. But the "why" they aren't winning has nothing to do with passion.

I don't buy fatigue as an excuse..

We can go back and forth with our opinions and all on it..

Amongst other reasons with this, i just dont buy being exhausted from playing a game for 3 + hours a day..
And with the Cubs and the way Maddon juggles line up everyday, they don't all play every game..

What they do after their baseball hours is on them and if that what wears them out , then they need to address that part of their life..






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[ijustposthere]

I've said this more times than I think anyone should have had to.....the only bad decision by a manager is one that does not work. It's just that simple. Making all the moves by the so-called book on baseball and having them not work....are bad decisions. Maddon chose to go against baseball's rules of logic and won a World Series. There is no guarantee that if had done anything differently than he did that he would have gotten the same result. Zero, zip, nada. So the clowns that insist that he's not doing his job, really need to extract your heads from your collective asses. By the time this season has ended he will have amassed close to 300 wins, 3 playoff appearances and a World Series in his 3 years here. If you don't like what he's doing, there are plenty of other managers managing teams that are on the outside looking in....go follow them, they do it all by "the book".

You're only looking at two results. W or L. There are many other variables that lead there. The game shouldn't have been close. Maddon's decisions got the Indians back into it TWICE. He had a bad game, but the players picked him up. Not sure why that comes off as so disturbing to people. It's just something to discuss. If he had managed a great game, he'd be commended. But he didn't. That doesn't take anything away from him as a manager, the Cubs as a team, or the victory.

 

[ijustposthere]

I don't buy fatigue as an excuse..

We can go back and forth with our opinions and all on it..

Amongst other reasons with this, i just dont buy being exhausted from playing a game for 3 + hours a day..
And with the Cubs and the way Maddon juggles line up everyday, they don't all play every game..

What they do after their baseball hours is on them and if that what wears them out , then they need to address that part of their life..






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I bet you don't even walk out to get the mail on a humid day without hurrying back to the air conditioner. They do more than just "play a game" 3 hours a day. Everyone acts like athletes don't do shit. If you think it's so easy, why aren't you doing it?

 

[beckdawg]

Amongst other reasons with this, i just dont buy being exhausted from playing a game for 3 + hours a day..

Think you're misunderstanding what i mean by fatigue. It's not that they are fatigued in a cardio sense. It's that bumps and bruises add up. I'll give you a perfect example. Remember when Bryant slid into third and caught his ring finger and pinky on a guys cleat? He played through that injury and it totally sapped his power for 3-4 weeks. Say you get hit by a pitch. You probably play the next game but you're going to be sore as hell and you're going to swing more tender. Maybe you slightly pull your hamstring running the bases. There's literally any number of things that could happen. Those things add up and the cubs have been without Russell and Contreras for around a month.

As for juggling the line up, sure he does that but it's generally moving Happ around and subbing in Zobrist/Schwarber/Jay/Almora. Heyward Baez Rizzo and Bryant rarely sit.

Edit: also to give an idea of what I'm talking about here, we know for a fact that Lackey went on the DL with plantar fasciitis. That's literally an injury people get from being on their feet too much and stressing the ligaments in their heel. This is the kind of wear and tear you deal with during a season and when you play almost non-stop for 2 months you're not going to be playing 100%. That's not excuse making it's just reality. It's why MLB schedules off days during the season. It just so happens that the cubs had a bunch of rain outs during the first half that loaded the back end of their schedule in an unfavorable manner.

 

[Diehardfan]

You're only looking at two results. W or L. There are many other variables that lead there. The game shouldn't have been close. Maddon's decisions got the Indians back into it TWICE. He had a bad game, but the players picked him up. Not sure why that comes off as so disturbing to people. It's just something to discuss. If he had managed a great game, he'd be commended. But he didn't. That doesn't take anything away from him as a manager, the Cubs as a team, or the victory.

All you're doing is surmising what might have happened if he did things differently....the only thing for sure was the result. W or L. Yeah....that's kinda why they keep the standings because that's all that matters.

 

[chibears55]

I bet you don't even walk out to get the mail on a humid day without hurrying back to the air conditioner. They do more than just "play a game" 3 hours a day. Everyone acts like athletes don't do shit. If you think it's so easy, why aren't you doing it?

Tell us what they did this morning after they woke up from a full night sleep , that physically drained them before the first pitch..
Then tell us what physically draining stuff their doing tonight before they go to bed..

I'll bet after they showered and dressed most went home to their wives and girlfriends, others probably went out to dinner and drinks..
They should all be in bed by 1000 or 1100 to get up in morning have breakfast and get to WF by whatever time they need to be there to get ready and loose for game..
Whoooo that draining

Their baseball life and what they do during a season is not physically draining...

They don't wake up at 5 in morning put in an 8 hour work day go home and deal with family bills and other things that need to be tended to every day 365 days a year..

They play a 3+ hour game 162 days over 6 months...
Most to all don't even play in all 162, then there the SP Bench players Relievers ...

So again...



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[chibears55]

Think you're misunderstanding what i mean by fatigue. It's not that they are fatigued in a cardio sense. It's that bumps and bruises add up. I'll give you a perfect example. Remember when Bryant slid into third and caught his ring finger and pinky on a guys cleat? He played through that injury and it totally sapped his power for 3-4 weeks. Say you get hit by a pitch. You probably play the next game but you're going to be sore as hell and you're going to swing more tender. Maybe you slightly pull your hamstring running the bases. There's literally any number of things that could happen. Those things add up and the cubs have been without Russell and Contreras for around a month.

As for juggling the line up, sure he does that but it's generally moving Happ around and subbing in Zobrist/Schwarber/Jay/Almora. Heyward Baez Rizzo and Bryant rarely sit.

Edit: also to give an idea of what I'm talking about here, we know for a fact that Lackey went on the DL with plantar fasciitis. That's literally an injury people get from being on their feet too much and stressing the ligaments in their heel. This is the kind of wear and tear you deal with during a season and when you play almost non-stop for 2 months you're not going to be playing 100%. That's not excuse making it's just reality. It's why MLB schedules off days during the season. It just so happens that the cubs had a bunch of rain outs during the first half that loaded the back end of their schedule in an unfavorable manner.

Ok...
Those are injuries ..
Yea I agree it hard if your trying to play with a nagging injury..


Fatigue to me is being tired, exhausted..
That just don't fly for me as an excuse

If their tired or exhausted then their doing non baseball related things after games or days off that they shouldn't be doing if it makes them feel that way..
That on them to change it

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[beckdawg]

Ok...
Those are injuries ..
Yea I agree it hard if your trying to play with a nagging injury..


Fatigue to me is being tired, exhausted..
That just don't fly for me as an excuse

If their tired or exhausted then their doing non baseball related things after games or days off that they shouldn't be doing if it makes them feel that way..
That on them to change it

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Fatigue was probably a bad word but like I didn't want to say injuries because that tends to mean like DL stint type things. More just nagging pain or whatever. For example, let's say you're moving someone's house. The next day you're probably really sore but I'm not sure you're "injured." I'm not saying playing a game of baseball is quite that stressful especially for trained athletes but if you're playing a game 56 out of 60 days you're going to have some aches and pains and that's going to effect your play.

It's probably fair to say a lot of teams are going to run into that though I do think the number of rain outs puts the cubs slightly less advantageous in that regard. I think what really compounds it is that without Contreras and Russell your back ups become starters and your depth becomes back ups. So where as you might previously have had Russell and Baez at SS/2B and say Schwarber Happ in LF/CF with Zobrist, Almora, and Avila on the bench you now playing 2 of those ph bats daily and your bench is shorter. And likewise with their pitching having injuries to Arrieta/Lester recently plus some bad outings you're pushing deeper into the bullpen for innings. A day off helps you reset that bullpen and would give you some extra time to heal up.

Like I said I'm not really making excuses for them. You play the games on the day they are set. But if you're looking for an answer to the question of "why" they seem flat I think that is a reasonable assumption. I think most everyone would agree they are a better team than they often play like. I just don't buy the idea that they lack heart. You don't come back the way they did in the NLCS without heart. You don't win the WS down 3-1 without heart. I just think they are a team that's a little banged up and need someone to carry them through a tough part of the schedule. A week or two ago that was Rizzo. Before he got hurt it was Contreras.

I can't tell you who if anyone that will be but that's what they need. From my view they just look like a team that is running on empty and who need a spark. Hopefully Contreras and return and give them a spark.

 

[chibears55]

Fatigue was probably a bad word but like I didn't want to say injuries because that tends to mean like DL stint type things. More just nagging pain or whatever. For example, let's say you're moving someone's house. The next day you're probably really sore but I'm not sure you're "injured." I'm not saying playing a game of baseball is quite that stressful especially for trained athletes but if you're playing a game 56 out of 60 days you're going to have some aches and pains and that's going to effect your play.

It's probably fair to say a lot of teams are going to run into that though I do think the number of rain outs puts the cubs slightly less advantageous in that regard. I think what really compounds it is that without Contreras and Russell your back ups become starters and your depth becomes back ups. So where as you might previously have had Russell and Baez at SS/2B and say Schwarber Happ in LF/CF with Zobrist, Almora, and Avila on the bench you now playing 2 of those ph bats daily and your bench is shorter. And likewise with their pitching having injuries to Arrieta/Lester recently plus some bad outings you're pushing deeper into the bullpen for innings. A day off helps you reset that bullpen and would give you some extra time to heal up.

Like I said I'm not really making excuses for them. You play the games on the day they are set. But if you're looking for an answer to the question of "why" they seem flat I think that is a reasonable assumption. I think most everyone would agree they are a better team than they often play like. I just don't buy the idea that they lack heart. You don't come back the way they did in the NLCS without heart. You don't win the WS down 3-1 without heart. I just think they are a team that's a little banged up and need someone to carry them through a tough part of the schedule. A week or two ago that was Rizzo. Before he got hurt it was Contreras.

I can't tell you who if anyone that will be but that's what they need. From my view they just look like a team that is running on empty and who need a spark. Hopefully Contreras and return and give them a spark.

No .. I agree it's not that they lack heart and all, of course they want to win

Sometimes during a long season a team or some players can get complacent and just need to get that fire back in their belly..

Sometimes it could take getting punched in the mouth like they did today and losing at home to Brewers or maybe even a good ol fashion bench clearing situation could spark them..
Maddon going on a bit of a tirade..lol

They need something to push them over in these next couple weeks


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[TL1961]

Then tell us what physically draining stuff their doing tonight before they go to bed..

I'll bet after they showered and dressed most went home to their wives and girlfriends,.....

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Hmmmm....
��

 

[Parade_Rain]

This board needs a giant tampon!

Blame jorgeramos, not the entire board.

 

[chibears55]

No Schwarbs again today...

Bryant in LF
LaStella 3B

Let get a win today

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[PickSix]

Somebody hit the damn ball.

 

[chibears55]

Cardinals about to sweep Pirates..

Brewers on way to sweep Cubs..

5 game lead about to turn to 2 if bats continue to sleep..

Remember when I said this was a big weekend and some ??? at me and disagreed..

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[Ari Bear]

Somebody hit the damn ball.

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[Globetrotter]

Bust out the brooms.