IST: Cubs vs. Pirates

[zack54attack]

Heck of a game today. STL loses too. Let's get that sweep tomorrow!

 

[Castor76]

In the previous 2 season, for the 45 games Rizzo batted Lead Off, he scored 24 runs and drove in another 17, not counting him driving himself in as well. He also has 11 HR in those games. While those don't extrapolate to glorious numbers over 162 games, if the "right" guys were hitting behind him, you probably get 175-200 runs created out of the position.

 

[greg23]

In the previous 2 season, for the 45 games Rizzo batted Lead Off, he scored 24 runs and drove in another 17, not counting him driving himself in as well. He also has 11 HR in those games. While those don't extrapolate to glorious numbers over 162 games, if the "right" guys were hitting behind him, you probably get 175-200 runs created out of the position.

So if I'm reading that right...he has...

45 games at leadoff
24 runs
28 rbi (17 not himself + 11 himself off his hr)

For a full season sounds like

86 runs
101 rbI
40 hr

Yeah; a waste to put that production in the leaded spot to go along with a .400+ obp

 

[SilentLurker]

So if I'm reading that right...he has...

45 games at leadoff
24 runs
28 rbi (17 not himself + 11 himself off his hr)

For a full season sounds like

86 runs
101 rbI
40 hr

Yeah; a waste to put that production in the leaded spot to go along with a .400+ obp

He wouldn’t do that over 162. Theo is stubborn on getting a real lead off hitter.

 

[TL1961]

Come on
Do you really think rizzo needs three hits to score from 1st base?
He's got the ml leading doubles hitter behind him and a bunch of guys who hit hrs

Tony Kemp is fast; should he lead off?
Almora is fast; should he lead off?
Heyward is fast; should he lead off?

Baseball has been slow to figure out lineup construction (100+ years) and esp today....just put your highest ob% guy #1 and next two best hitters 2 and 3 and go from there....ideally you'd like to alternate r-l but I'd rather have my better hitters getting more ab''s

Tony Kemp is not fast. (He also can't get on base and has absolutely zero chance of being a Cub in 2020.)
Albert Almora is not fast.

How can you say those players are fast?
Do you watch games? Or simply assume that non-power guys must be fast?

 

[TL1961]

So if I'm reading that right...he has...

45 games at leadoff
24 runs
28 rbi (17 not himself + 11 himself off his hr)

For a full season sounds like

86 runs
101 rbI
40 hr

Yeah; a waste to put that production in the leaded spot to go along with a .400+ obp

That would be far better at leadoff than we have been getting, and less than what he has been doing, and this is for a guy you are touting as "great" at leadoff.

86 runs? That would actually be well short of what should be expected from a top leadoff, no?

I like RIzzo, and he has done fine as leadoff. But I find it interesting that most every argument for keeping him at leadoff is that it boosts his personal numbers (except the above shows it really isn't a boost)

Shouldn't we be looking at boosting team success?

But here's the real question - If Rizzo was going to do that over a full stretch, and is really the "obvious answer", why does Joe Maddon remove him from the leadoff spot even after a torrid stretch?

Might Joe realize it is not best for the team long term?

 

[Diehardfan]

That would be far better at leadoff than we have been getting, and less than what he has been doing, and this is for a guy you are touting as "great" at leadoff.

86 runs? That would actually be well short of what should be expected from a top leadoff, no?

I like RIzzo, and he has done fine as leadoff. But I find it interesting that most every argument for keeping him at leadoff is that it boosts his personal numbers (except the above shows it really isn't a boost)

Shouldn't we be looking at boosting team success?

But here's the real question - If Rizzo was going to do that over a full stretch, and is really the "obvious answer", why does Joe Maddon remove him from the leadoff spot even after a torrid stretch?

Might Joe realize it is not best for the team long term?

They have tried a pretty substantial amount of guys at leadoff and the fact is they have not found a replacement for Fowler. At the moment, Rizzo is the flavor of the day and it's working. You keep doing it till it's not working.

 

[greg23]

That would be far better at leadoff than we have been getting, and less than what he has been doing, and this is for a guy you are touting as "great" at leadoff.

86 runs? That would actually be well short of what should be expected from a top leadoff, no?

I like RIzzo, and he has done fine as leadoff. But I find it interesting that most every argument for keeping him at leadoff is that it boosts his personal numbers (except the above shows it really isn't a boost)

Shouldn't we be looking at boosting team success?

But here's the real question - If Rizzo was going to do that over a full stretch, and is really the "obvious answer", why does Joe Maddon remove him from the leadoff spot even after a torrid stretch?

Might Joe realize it is not best for the team long term?

Please find me a leadoff hitter in today's game that has

280+ ba
400 + obp
900 + ops
40+ hr
100 + rbi
With 86 runs (not up to him to score; dependent on guys behind him)

I bet you'd find......nobody

 

[Discus fish salesman]

Please find me a leadoff hitter in today's game that has

280+ ba
400 + obp
900 + ops
40+ hr
100 + rbi
With 86 runs (not up to him to score; dependent on guys behind him)

I bet you'd find......nobody

If you list enough numbers it makes it near impossible to find that player, but there are without a doubt better leadoff options. The first two box scores I looked at had LeMahieu and Lindor leading off. I’d take either of them leading off ahead of Rizzo

Also nationals have two great leadoff options in Turner and Eaton. I’d love to have one of them at the top of the lineup.

 

[SilenceS]

 

[anotheridiot]

He wouldn’t do that over 162. Theo is stubborn on getting a real lead off hitter.

Imagine the outrage if Theo gave Fowler that 100 million dollar deal the Cardinals did.

Nico should foot the bill to leadoff, but he swings alot and hits the baseball instead of taking walks so he will be chastised for that anyway.

 

[CSF77]

Imagine the outrage if Theo gave Fowler that 100 million dollar deal the Cardinals did.

Nico should foot the bill to leadoff, but he swings alot and hits the baseball instead of taking walks so he will be chastised for that anyway.

I would keep Nico as is. He is a great hitter first and you want that with men on base.

 

[CSF77]

Sing along.

If it ain't broke.

Then don't fix it.

 

[MDB111™]

Imagine the outrage if Theo gave Fowler that 100 million dollar deal the Cardinals did.

Nico should foot the bill to leadoff, but he swings alot and hits the baseball instead of taking walks so he will be chastised for that anyway.

Christ he is young though. All that can be corrected and his ceiling is high as of now.

 

[TL1961]

They have tried a pretty substantial amount of guys at leadoff and the fact is they have not found a replacement for Fowler. At the moment, Rizzo is the flavor of the day and it's working. You keep doing it till it's not working.

I don't have a problem with that.

But to think the team - possibly with a new manager - enters 2020 expecting Rizzo to lead off is nuts.

 

[TL1961]

Sing along.

If it ain't broke.

Then don't fix it.

The discussion was exclusively about entering 2020 with the plan to have Rizzo the leadoff man. We were not discussing 9-15-19.

 

[SilenceS]

I don't have a problem with that.

But to think the team - possibly with a new manager - enters 2020 expecting Rizzo to lead off is nuts.

Theo said not having a lead off hitter is squarely on his shoulders

 

[Discus fish salesman]

Theo said not having a lead off hitter is squarely on his shoulders

Yeah

 

[SilentLurker]

I would keep Nico as is. He is a great hitter first and you want that with men on base.

yes. he's the only guy on the cubs who's not trying to hit the ball out of the ballpark every ab. I guess these days they call this an old fashioned baseball player. Baseball would be so much better with more Bob Denier's.

 

[SilentLurker]

Yeah

I didn't hear that but if he said that that's nice. Too bad it's 3 years too late.