IST: Cubs vs. Reds

[TC in Mississippi]

Should be based off tie breaker rules to find the top 2.

No, there would be 2 games. Here's how that would work:

In case of the three-way tie, there would be two tie-breaking games. The teams would then chose a team designation A, B, C, as based on the following. Both NYM and StL won their season series vs. SFG. NYM and StL split their season series. StL has a 2.5-game better intradivision record than NYM. If this lead holds, then StL would get the first choice if it wants to host Game 1 (team A), with the chance to avenge a loss as the visiting team in Game 2, be the visiting team in Game 1 with the same second chance (team B), or host the loser of Game 1 (team C). NYM would get the second choice of team designation, then SFG gets the last one.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Is this thing still decided by the baseball writers? If so, it continues to be a farce. Can the idiotic stats and the over inflated egos of the writers.

In some way, shape or form....it should be ultimately decided by the people that earn their living facing these pitchers.

It's still voted on by the members of the BBWAA. I agree it needs to change but I strongly believe it should be weighted by stats in some fashion. Why don't you think stats should play a part?

 

[CSF77]

Is this thing still decided by the baseball writers? If so, it continues to be a farce. Can the idiotic stats and the over inflated egos of the writers.

In some way, shape or form....it should be ultimately decided by the people that earn their living facing these pitchers.

That be hard to do because every hit a certain pitcher that they hated and they would Vote him

 

[CSF77]

No, there would be 2 games. Here's how that would work:

In case of the three-way tie, there would be two tie-breaking games. The teams would then chose a team designation A, B, C, as based on the following. Both NYM and StL won their season series vs. SFG. NYM and StL split their season series. StL has a 2.5-game better intradivision record than NYM. If this lead holds, then StL would get the first choice if it wants to host Game 1 (team A), with the chance to avenge a loss as the visiting team in Game 2, be the visiting team in Game 1 with the same second chance (team B), or host the loser of Game 1 (team C). NYM would get the second choice of team designation, then SFG gets the last one.

Gross

 

[TL1961]

Don't think IP are gonna matter much and k's is a small factor, getting people out is all that matters really. Hopefully Lester keeps rolling his next few outings.

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To me, IP is huge. If you only go 6 every time you have FAR less value.

 

[TL1961]

Hendricks screwed himself last outing by not getting a win. Though of course that was one of the Cubbies really bad offensive performances. But whatever he got the loss.

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"screwed himself by not getting a win" screams "I don't get it!"

 

[Ari Bear]

To me, IP is huge. If you only go 6 every time you have FAR less value.

IP has little significance though when they vote for the CY. ERA and wins are the two most factors.

"screwed himself by not getting a win" screams "I don't get it!"

Read the whole post, I corrected myself. I blamed the offense for that game


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[CSF77]

That is why I like the formula. Win 6. Loss -2 Lester got 6 for the win. IP and ER's were around 4 points. SO's about 1/2 point. It values did you help your team win or not

 

[TC in Mississippi]

With Montero catching Lackey again I'm really starting to wonder about whether or not Contreras actually does much catching in the playoffs.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Strop back on Friday for the Cardinals series.

 

[Diehardfan]

That be hard to do because every hit a certain pitcher that they hated and they would Vote him

You appear to be speaking tongues.

But I think you're suggesting that players won't vote for certain pitchers because they don't like them. And you don't think a lot of these air headed sportswriters don't do the same thing?

 

[Diehardfan]

It's still voted on by the members of the BBWAA. I agree it needs to change but I strongly believe it should be weighted by stats in some fashion. Why don't you think stats should play a part?

There was a time that I thought stats should play a huge role....but it has just gotten out of hand. I swear Bill James has a case of brain overload these days. For over 100 years baseball stats served the game very well....now BJ figures time for another baseball stats book, so what can I come up with now? I just find it laughable how everyone falls in line with this stuff and proclaims it the newest God send to the game.

Baseball is a game....you play the game, someone wins and someone loses then someone records how it happened. These days it's a statistical avalanche.

I mean needing a damn formula just to name the Cy Young winner? You don't think that's a bit much?

 

[TL1961]

IP has little significance though when they vote for the CY. ERA and wins are the two most factors.


Read the whole post, I corrected myself. I blamed the offense for that game


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Aorry if I missed the correction.

As for innings, it certainly plays little factor most of the time. But in the case of Hendricks, as a fan who really likes him, I still worry when he starts games (or used to) because the bullpen would need to pitch 3 innings.

When you use your pen for 3 each time a guy starts, that's huge. And not a positive.

 

[TL1961]

There was a time that I thought stats should play a huge role....but it has just gotten out of hand. I swear Bill James has a case of brain overload these days. For over 100 years baseball stats served the game very well....now BJ figures time for another baseball stats book, so what can I come up with now? I just find it laughable how everyone falls in line with this stuff and proclaims it the newest God send to the game.

Baseball is a game....you play the game, someone wins and someone loses then someone records how it happened. These days it's a statistical avalanche.

I mean needing a damn formula just to name the Cy Young winner? You don't think that's a bit much?

Nothing is worse than penalizing a pitcher for not having as many wins as another guy who simply didn't pitch as well.

 

[brett05]

Nothing is worse than penalizing a pitcher for not having as many wins as another guy who simply didn't pitch as well.

Over a season I agree. King Felix did it with 13 wins. There is plenty room for others in this talk in the NL since Kershaw won't have enough innings

 

[beckdawg]

To me, IP is huge. If you only go 6 every time you have FAR less value.

I don't really agree with that logic because the pitcher doesn't decide when he comes out of the game. Dusty Baker is content to let guys throw until their arms fall off while other managers(and front offices) may have different mandates. I don't think it's fair to knock a younger starter like Hendricks or Syndergaard for their team being careful with his innings limit.

 

[brett05]

I don't really agree with that logic because the pitcher doesn't decide when he comes out of the game. Dusty Baker is content to let guys throw until their arms fall off while other managers(and front offices) may have different mandates. I don't think it's fair to knock a younger starter like Hendricks or Syndergaard for their team being careful with his innings limit.

It has nothing to do with innings limits as it does with pitch counts. And pitchers can control that.

 

[DanTown]

Would Scherzer be a better pitcher if he pitched only six innings and he knew he wouldn't have to pace himself? Part of the reason I think Cy Young and IP is so important is the value of a pitcher NOT being able to just go out and max out for five or six innings and the value that pitching has on the rest of the team. I just think if you're the Cy Young, you pitch 7+ innings most of the time you pitch and when you pitch, you have very good value.

Kyle has a low ERA but ERA is partly luck, etc. It's a good stat but it obviously has holes in evaluating two players solely by their ERA. The two most important factors are the ballparks they pitch in and the defense they play in front of. And while I want to say "the lower FIP is partly his control", Lester and Hammel have quite large FIP/ERA differences as well so it may be something that the team is doing and not just something Kyle is doing.

 

[beckdawg]

It has nothing to do with innings limits as it does with pitch counts. And pitchers can control that.

Now you're just arguing semantics. The point is that some managers will let a starter go 110-120 pitches regularly. Maddon rarely lets even Lester or Arrieta go 110 and Hendricks has rarely gone above 100. Even the most efficient pitchers in the league are still going like 14-15 pitches an inning on average. So, there's a hard cap on innings based on that.

 

[beckdawg]

Would Scherzer be a better pitcher if he pitched only six innings and he knew he wouldn't have to pace himself?

This is a strawman argument though because you're assuming that if Hendricks pitched another inning on average he would be worse. He might be but he might pitch just fine. The fact of the matter is pitchers go out there with a plan. They don't go out there thinking well I better not throw many fastballs so I can go 7 innings. You throw he pitches you think will get outs one pitch at a time.

Regardless, my view is it's pointless to throw theoretically out. Judge pitchers based on what they do not based on "what if's."