IST: Reds vs Cubs

[bamainatlanta]

Happ last 30 games--- .179/298/.269

Is he the next Bellhorn?

 

[bamainatlanta]

Bote the legend!

 

[fatbeard]

I will now enjoy the next 5.5 hours of tranquility between a Cubs win and Milwaukee and St. Louis keeping pace.

 

[Mr. Cub]

Bote the Goaty.

 

[anotheridiot]

I am telling you, Bote and Baez are just made for the big stage. I know they like Russell, but the killer b's of Bryant, Baez and Bote in the infield for the next 5 years really sounds nice.

 

[CSF77]

Just 1 game on Mills: thoughts?

 

[fatbeard]

I am telling you, Bote and Baez are just made for the big stage. I know they like Russell, but the killer b's of Bryant, Baez and Bote in the infield for the next 5 years really sounds nice.

Addison Russell hit a grand slam in a do-or-die Game 6 of the World Series. And he was pretty damn good against LA the series prior. "Big stages" and all...

 

[chibears55]

Just 1 game on Mills: thoughts?

I hope he gets a 2nd game ....


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[TL1961]

Addison Russell hit a grand slam in a do-or-die Game 6 of the World Series. And he was pretty damn good against LA the series prior. "Big stages" and all...

Fans don't seem to understand the value of good defensive SS's.

Poor IF defense is the reason St Louis is not winning this division. But Cub fans want only offense. The Cubs built for decades based on offense and lost. They now have a solid defensive team and have a WS win and lots of success, and fans clamor for offensive players.

Murphy will hit, and kill you on D. Russell will play great D, and not hit nearly as well. Fans will think Murphy is a star and Russell is a bum. Same argument with our non-framing catcher. Absolutely killing us....quietly. Most fans can't see it.

Not to be too down on Murphy or Contreras. Just trying to point out (for the 100th time, admittedly) that defense matters as much as offense.

 

[fatbeard]

Same arument with our non-framing catcher. Absolutely killing us....quietly. Most fans can't see it.

I'd love to see a single shred of good evidence that this statement is accurate.

 

[SilenceS]

Fans don't seem to understand the value of good defensive SS's.

Poor IF defense is the reason St Louis is not winning this division. But Cub fans want only offense. The Cubs built for decades based on offense and lost. They now have a solid defensive team and have a WS win and lots of success, and fans clamor or offensive players.

Murphy will hit, and kill you on D. Russell will play great D, and not hit nearly as well. Fans will think Murphy is a star and Russell is a bum. Same arument with our non-framing catcher. Absolutely killing us....quietly. Most fans can't see it.

Contreras is killing us? lol

 

[fatbeard]

Contreras is killing us? lol

Totally bro.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN201610220.shtml

 

[TL1961]

Contreras is killing us? lol

Why is framing ability measured?

Why did our pitching perform so well with one of the best framers, and the same pitchers fare much worse with one of the worst framers? Coincidence??

If you don't think framing matters in today's MLB, you simply haven't been watching or paying attention.

 

[TL1961]

Totally bro.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN201610220.shtml

This does NOT take into account framing, which is about 100x more of a factor than throwing out baserunners in a game that no longer involves base stealing.

Cubs add very good framer: Three pitchers finish 1-2-3 in Cy Young in two year span.
Cubs switch to worst framer: Same pitchers falter.

I love Contreras' arm. I look forward to him learning the nuances of catching. One throwing error undoes several great throws that "almost" pick a guy off. I like aggressiveness, but I look forward to when he learns when NOT to make a dumb play. I look forward to the day our catcher does not have to throw to 1st on 50% of the strikeouts.

And mostly, I look for him to hit the way we know he can. His bat is the reason he plays, and it is AWOL. He has the ability to carry a team for a while with his bat, but he just isn't doing it.

But, damn, dude. Learn to save your pitchers some wear and tear on their arms, and learn to frame a fucking pitch!

 

[SilenceS]

Why is framing ability measured?

Why did our pitching perform so well with one of the best framers, and the same pitchers fare much worse with one of the worst framers? Coincidence??

If you don't think framing matters in today's MLB, you simply haven't been watching or paying attention.

I dont know regression, luck, aging, lack of velocity? Contreras has nothing to do with out pitching staff problems this year. He does need to work on framing, but there is/was a lot more issues.

 

[CSF77]

I dont know regression, luck, aging, lack of velocity? Contreras has nothing to do with out pitching staff problems this year. He does need to work on framing, but there is/was a lot more issues.

111 wRC+ 11% above the mean. Really doesn't justify sub avg skills. If the game was like the 80's where teams used speed as a weapon then his value increases. Right now the game is all about OBA and missing strikes by poor framing hurts more than that 11% adds.

 

[fatbeard]

This does NOT take into account framing, which is about 100x more of a factor than throwing out baserunners in a game that no longer involves base stealing.

Cubs add very good framer: Three pitchers finish 1-2-3 in Cy Young in two year span.
Cubs switch to worst framer: Same pitchers falter.

I love Contreras' arm. I look forward to him learning the nuances of catching. One throwing error undoes several great throws that "almost" pick a guy off. I like aggressiveness, but I look forward to when he learns when NOT to make a dumb play. I look forward to the day our catcher does not have to throw to 1st on 50% of the strikeouts.

And mostly, I look for him to hit the way we know he can. His bat is the reason he plays, and it is AWOL. He has the ability to carry a team for a while with his bat, but he just isn't doing it.

But, damn, dude. Learn to save your pitchers some wear and tear on their arms, and learn to frame a fucking pitch!

It's clear you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. You've seized on Contreras' pitch framing in a post hoc fallacy for the Cubs' recent starting pitching struggles (somehow his pitch framing doesn't affect the performance bullpen--a phenomenon I'd love to see you explain) without presenting a single data point to support your argument. The sophistication of your explanation boils down to, "They used to be better and now they're not, therefore Contreras." You completely ignore age, regression, injury, normal performance fluctuations, changes to the rotation, a new pitching coach, etc. as relevant factors. Moreover, you overstate the important of pitch framing itself while ignoring all the other facets of Contreras' game which more than make up for any deficiencies he has at stealing a couple extra strikes per game. You know, little things like offense, defense, and baserunning. Things most other catchers tend to really suck at, to put it terms you'll understand. So congrats, you've clowned yourself.

 

[Diehardfan]

Pitch framing...basically being skilled in cheating by taking advantage of a lot of really bad ball/strike umpires. What does it say about a player needing to be deceptive or it hurts his pitching staff? Electronic ball/strike technology puts that all to rest.

 

[fatbeard]

111 wRC+ 11% above the mean. Really doesn't justify sub avg skills. If the game was like the 80's where teams used speed as a weapon then his value increases. Right now the game is all about OBA and missing strikes by poor framing hurts more than that 11% adds.

No. Contreras' framing has only cost the Cubs between 8 and 14 runs this year. His 111 wRC+ and 4 DRS make up for it. At worst it's a wash, and in a typical season where he's hitting better he's a major net positive.

 

[kapooncha]

Welp, looks like Cards are on their way to winning another game. Make that 18-4 in August.