It Should Have Been Boynton

[Pez68]

Maybe Keith sucking so much had to do with playing with Boynton so fucking much over the first 20 games? Now that Keith isn't playing with Boynton and Cullimore, he's actually playing well? Imagine that. That couldn't possibly have anything to do with it though.... It must be the opposite.



I cant' believe someone actually made the argument that Boynton was playing too much, because Keith was sucking. No, it was actually exactly the opposite. Keith was sucking so much because Boynton was playing too much, and playing too much with him. Now that Boynton is playing in the five/six slot, where the damage he inflicts is cut in half, Keith is in much better shape. Then again, I'm one of those that never really blasted Keith. One, because he was playing so much with Boynton and Cullimore, and two, because the guy just won the fucking Norris, and is much better than he was playing. Boynton ALWAYS sucks, and cannot play any better than he has been playing.

 

[R K]

Nice theory I guess if Keith wasn't sucking from the start of the year when he was playing with Seabrook.



He leads the league in give aways, and was NOT always paired with Boynton.



And it could most definitely be TOI for Keith as he was well over 30 minutes per game WITH SEABROOK, making up for the TOI Campbell was getting on the IR. So I could certainly see where Keiths TOI could be directly tied into his play. I can't think of another NHL D man that averages over 30 minutes TOI per game efficiently.

 

[supraman]

Nice theory I guess if Keith wasn't sucking from the start of the year when he was playing with Seabrook.



He leads the league in give aways, and was NOT always paired with Boynton.



And it could most definitely be TOI for Keith as he was well over 30 minutes per game WITH SEABROOK, making up for the TOI Campbell was getting on the IR. So I could certainly see where Keiths TOI could be directly tied into his play. I can't think of another NHL D man that averages over 30 minutes TOI per game efficiently.

Agreed, beginning of the season Q was playing Keith way too much. He has great endurance and can rack up the minutes but that was too much.

 

[Pez68]

Keith was playing so much because Campbell was hurt. Then Q decided(idiotically) to break up Seabrook and Keith. Can you tell me who Keith spent the majority of his time with when not playing with Seabrook? Cullimore and Boynton, correct?



Boynton was playing so much, not because Keith was sucking, but because Campbell was hurt. Boynton didn't go back to playing 5/6 minutes because Keith stopped sucking. He went back to playing 5/6 minutes when Campbell came back, and Q finally realized Boynton sucks as anything more than a 5/6. You know, like after the San Jose game? He went back to playing 5/6 minutes when Q finally put Keith and Seabrook back together, where they should have been from the start of the season.



The logic in pmx's post is so ass backwards, it's hilarious. Yes, Keith has sucked most of the year, with decent games scattered throughout. But, he hasn't had ANY help since the Keith/Seabrook pairing was broken up. He was still playing against the other team's top forwards, but doing so with Cullimore and Boynton, instead of Seabook. Campbell being hurt was the BIGGEST contributor towards our fucked up defensive pairings and guys playing too many minutes. Keith sucking had nothing to do with Boynton and Cullimore's icetime. Keith was still playing 30 minutes a night!

 

[R K]

IMO Hjarlmarsson was playing like ass so Q put him with Seabrook to try and settle him down.



Again Pez there is NO DOUBT that Keiths TOI directly effected his game. You are the ONLY one I've seen discount that.



And FYI Seabrook was with Culimore once they split them up just as he was with Hjalmrasson. Q was trying to get both Seabrooks and Keiths minutes down. No doubt about it.

 

[R K]

Agreed, beginning of the season Q was playing Keith way too much. He has great endurance and can rack up the minutes but that was too much.

Yup.



PMX argument is just as valid as yours. Like it or not Pez there are other people who know just as much about the game as you do.



Seabrook and Hjarlmarsson were on the ice against others TOP LINES as well. Just has Cullimore has been at times. They've not just taken a line and gone against that line. Q has juggled the pairings verses other teams lines all year.



Last two games with Keith and Seabrook back, that has appeared to settle down. Part of that was to get Hjarlmarsson back on his game.



There really are.

 

[Pez68]

IMO Hjarlmarsson was playing like ass so Q put him with Seabrook to try and settle him down.



Again Pez there is NO DOUBT that Keiths TOI directly effected his game. You are the ONLY one I've seen discount that.



And FYI Seabrook was with Culimore once they split them up just as he was with Hjalmrasson. Q was trying to get both Seabrooks and Keiths minutes down. No doubt about it.

RK, can you please point out where I EVER stated that Keith playing so many minutes didn't affect his play? I am NOT saying that, AT ALL. I actually 100% AGREE with that. He was playing way too much. I think you are completely misunderstanding me here....

 

[R K]

RK, can you please point out where I EVER stated that Keith playing so many minutes didn't affect his play? I am NOT saying that, AT ALL. I actually 100% AGREE with that. He was playing way too much. I think you are completely misunderstanding me here....

Could be I'm multi tasking. I didn't see any flaw in PMX's argument.

 

[Pez68]

Holy ****, read what I'm typing before responding please.



I am responding directly to this statement by pmx.

The last 2 games - since Keith finally (and hopefully it continues) pulled his head out of his ass - the team has been able to properly slot the Dmen and Boynton/Cully have been playing appropriate minute the last 2 games.

Basically, pmx is saying that Boynton and Cullimore have been playing appropriate minutes the last two games, because Keith has pulled his head out of his ass. So we are to believe that Boynton and Cullimore have been playing too many minutes because Keith has had his head up his ass? Too bad Keith's poor play has had absolutely nothing to do with Cullimore and Boynton's icetime. Zip, zilch, zero. It isn't like Keith was down to playing 20 minutes a night, and Cullimore and Boynton were taking those minutes from him.... They were playing more than they should, because Campbell was hurt.

 

[R K]

Holy ****, read what I'm typing before responding please.



I am responding directly to this statement by pmx.







Basically, pmx is saying that Boynton and Cullimore have been playing appropriate minutes the last two games, because Keith has pulled his head out of his ass. So we are to believe that Boynton and Cullimore have been playing too many minutes because Keith has had his head up his ass? Too bad Keith's poor play has had absolutely nothing to do with Cullimore and Boynton's icetime. Zip, zilch, zero. It isn't like Keith was down to playing 20 minutes a night, and Cullimore and Boynton were taking those minutes from him.... They were playing more than they should, because Campbell was hurt.

I agree with him but what you post here I thought was a given?



Campbell has been back for 13 games.

 

[E Runs]

I usually find humor in most things, even topics or situations where humor is unacceptable.



This though, is not funny.

I played along not even knowing what had happened, oh well.

 

[Pez68]

At what point in this season have Boynton and Cullimore ever taken minutes away from Keith? Maybe once or twice this season when Keith was benched for a few shifts? Boynton and Cullimore have never played more, so Keith's minutes could be reduced. They were playing more because Hammer was playing less, and Campbell was out. Look at TOI this season. Seabrook and Keith are both UP from last year, while Campbell and Hammer are DOWN.

 

[R K]

At what point in this season have Boynton and Cullimore ever taken minutes away from Keith? Maybe once or twice this season when Keith was benched for a few shifts?

Q definitely used them to try and get Keiths TOI down. Throughout the season so far.



Campbell had just come back from injury, along with Keith and Hjarlmarsson playing unlike Keith and Hjarlmarsson.



I'll let PMX debate this one with you. He can hold his own.

 

[PatrickShart]

Maybe Keith sucking so much had to do with playing with Boynton so fucking much over the first 20 games? Now that Keith isn't playing with Boynton and Cullimore, he's actually playing well? Imagine that. That couldn't possibly have anything to do with it though.... It must be the opposite.



I cant' believe someone actually made the argument that Boynton was playing too much, because Keith was sucking. No, it was actually exactly the opposite. Keith was sucking so much because Boynton was playing too much, and playing too much with him. Now that Boynton is playing in the five/six slot, where the damage he inflicts is cut in half, Keith is in much better shape. Then again, I'm one of those that never really blasted Keith. One, because he was playing so much with Boynton and Cullimore, and two, because the guy just won the fucking Norris, and is much better than he was playing. Boynton ALWAYS sucks, and cannot play any better than he has been playing.

Keith was playing 30 min a game the first part of the year - due to Campbell being out. Since Campbell came back - and yes, Keith has still be sucking - while paired with Seabrook the majority of the time, Q switched the pairings and put Hjallmarsson with Seabrook, Campbell with Cullimore and Boynton with Keith. Those D pairings took place on 11/10 game vs PHX. Up until that point.....here were some of the 17 games played stats -

10/10 vs BUF - Keith 31min of ice time.... - 2 .....Boynton 23min of ice time - +2

10/18 vs STL - Keith 31min of ice time.... -1 .......Boynton 23min of ice time - +1

11/03 vs NJ - Keith 29min of ice time......-4 ........Boynton 10min of ice time - +1

11/07 vs EDM- Keith 29min of ice time ...-1........Boynton 14min of ice time - +1



Up until that point -

Keith - 17gms -5

Boynton - 16gms - E



As a pair - from 11/10 to 11/24 vs SJ

Keith -7gms -2 - 23:40 avg ice time

Boynton - 7gms -1 - 17:50 avg ice tieme



Here are some quote at the time of switching them up on 11/10 - for a whopping 7 games - not 20, but why throw facts in there -

Seabrook skated mostly with Niklas Hjalmarsson, while Keith was partners with Nick Boynton. The shake-up didn’t help Keith, who was minus-2 and turned the puck over on both Phoenix goals in a 2-1 loss to the Coyotes.



Keith is now minus-7 in the first 18 games. “He can be better,” Quenneville said.

 

[R K]

damn thats a good fucking post.

 

[FlaHawkFan]

Keith was playing 30 min a game the first part of the year - due to Campbell being out. Since Campbell came back - and yes, Keith has still be sucking - while paired with Seabrook the majority of the time, Q switched the pairings and put Hjallmarsson with Seabrook, Campbell with Cullimore and Boynton with Keith. Those D pairings took place on 11/10 game vs PHX. Up until that point.....here were some of the 17 games played stats -

10/10 vs BUF - Keith 31min of ice time.... - 2 .....Boynton 23min of ice time - +2

10/18 vs STL - Keith 31min of ice time.... -1 .......Boynton 23min of ice time - +1

11/03 vs NJ - Keith 29min of ice time......-4 ........Boynton 10min of ice time - +1

11/07 vs EDM- Keith 29min of ice time ...-1........Boynton 14min of ice time - +1



Up until that point -

Keith - 17gms -5

Boynton - 16gms - E



As a pair - from 11/10 to 11/24 vs SJ

Keith -7gms -2 - 23:40 avg ice time

Boynton - 7gms -1 - 17:50 avg ice tieme



Here are some quote at the time of switching them up on 11/10 - for a whopping 7 games - not 20, but why throw facts in there -

Seabrook skated mostly with Niklas Hjalmarsson, while Keith was partners with Nick Boynton. The shake-up didn’t help Keith, who was minus-2 and turned the puck over on both Phoenix goals in a 2-1 loss to the Coyotes.



Keith is now minus-7 in the first 18 games. “He can be better,” Quenneville said.

This is all true, but I'm gonna come to my boy Duncan's defense here. As bad as he looked at the beginning of the season when he was playing those ridiculous minutes, he got even worse when he was paired with Boynton. It looked to me like Keith was constantly on eggshells and trying to do too much because he knew he couldn't rely on Boynton. Keith couldn't play Keith's game at all. You see the way he plays with Seabs, jumping up into the play because he knows he can rely on his partner to back him up. He couldn't do that with Boynton. And unlike Seabs, who can push the puck up-ice himself, either with a good stretch pass or by taking it himself, Boynton constantly passed the puck back to Keith like it was some kind of grenade when they were trying to get out of their own end. So I don't think Pez is wrong here -- I do think that a lot of the reason Keith has sucked of late was due to the fact that he was paired witn Boynton.



I still haven't heard why Keith played only two minutes in the third period of the San Jose game. I saw him on the PK to start the period then I didn't see him again. I keep wondering (jokingly) whether he finally put his skate down and told Q, "I'm not going out there with Boynton any more!" Because the next game, voila, he was back with Seabs, and Keith put together two of his best games of the year against Anaheim and especially L.A. (Again, I'm really joking there.)

 

[PatrickShart]

The 5/6 defenceman - which I think everypone agrees on is Boynton/Cullimore ice time this year -

Boynton - 17:49

Cullimr - 13:44



Last year....the Hawks 5th/6th Dmen -

Sopel - 14:51

Barker - 13:05

Hendry - 11:51



Boynton this year, when playing LESS than 17 minutes a game - is a +2



He played 20+ minutes in 7 of the first 9gms (19+ the other 2)...and including a 27min win vs Van and the team went 5-4, and he was E in the +/- ....Keith and Hjarlmarsson were a -3 each in those same games



But yeah, Nick Boynton has sucked and Keith and Hjarllmarson's game has suffered because of him.

D.Keith - 27:35gm - -4 - 31gva - 14hits - 53 blk shts

Boynton - 17:49gm - E - 17gva - 27hits - 53 blk shts

Hjarlmn - 18:47gm - -3 - 17gva - 16hits - 52 blk shts

 

[PatrickShart]

This is all true, but I'm gonna come to my boy Duncan's defense here. As bad as he looked at the beginning of the season when he was playing those ridiculous minutes, he got even worse when he was paired with Boynton. It looked to me like Keith was constantly on eggshells and trying to do too much because he knew he couldn't rely on Boynton. Keith couldn't play Keith's game at all. You see the way he plays with Seabs, jumping up into the play because he knows he can rely on his partner to back him up. He couldn't do that with Boynton. And unlike Seabs, who can push the puck up-ice himself, either with a good stretch pass or by taking it himself, Boynton constantly passed the puck back to Keith like it was some kind of grenade when they were trying to get out of their own end. So I don't think Pez is wrong here -- I do think that a lot of the reason Keith has sucked of late was due to the fact that he was paired witn Boynton.



I still haven't heard why Keith played only two minutes in the third period of the San Jose game. I saw him on the PK to start the period then I didn't see him again. I keep wondering (jokingly) whether he finally put his skate down and told Q, "I'm not going out there with Boynton any more!" Because the next game, voila, he was back with Seabs, and Keith put together two of his best games of the year against Anaheim and especially L.A. (Again, I'm really joking there.)

Keith was playing way too many minutes early with Campbell out, Hjalmarson MIA..which hurt him. But to blame Boynton because of that - them playing together only 7 games (which the PHX game, Duncan blew with 2 giveaways...not Boynton)...is ridiculous. The team went 3-3-1 when they were paired up. They should have won the PHX game (completely outplayed them). He was playing poorly before that - as his coach and a few of his teammates even mentioned his struggling - “Everybody goes through those situations throughout the year(Keith's struggles). We need Duncs, and he’s going to continue to work hard like he always does.” - Brian Campbell said.

 

[PatrickShart]

Also...FLA....was Duncan "walking on eggshells" when they whooped EDM 5-0? Or VAN 7-1?...or when they beat a hot ANA team in OT just before the road trip?



The 3 losses they had, while playing together....the CAL debacle (not sure who wasnt to blame in that game), the PHX game - 2 Keith givaways, yet the Hawks outshot them 36-22 so more lack of offense then Boynton, or the SJ game (where Boynton did have 2 costly giveaways).

 

[E Runs]

As Keith goes so does the team no matter who he's paired with.



Bottom line, the Hawks run on Duncan.