Jeff Samardzija and Jason Hammel traded to Oakland Athletics for Addison Russell plus

[dabynsky]

You really think the Cubs are going to pursue multiple 20+ million per year pitchers?

No in fact I personally doubt want to. If the payroll is stuck at the 100-110 range for the next several seasons there is no arm I want to make up 20% of the payroll. I am just pointing out that it is possible to replace Samardzija with a name if you are into that. I am more than happy for the Cubs to buy low on guys like Masterson and another to fill out a rotation.

 

[CSF77]

I would leave a 97 mil deal like I laid out for shark. Let him be the dick here. Shark knows that Baez and Bryant are in AAA now so help is hitting right when his deal starts.

If he turns it down it would be because he doesn't want to work for the current admin.

I respect that. Not really a fan of it also.

Regardless, if I am Theo I am still asking for a top 100 SP in return. I would dip down only as far as AA current.

The guy I would want to get is Kevin Gausman. Thing is Kevin is the guy that I believe is going to keep the O's out of the bidding war. His potential is the same as Shark's and he is MLB tested.

Seeing how he just won with 6 IP of shut out ball against TB. I wouldn't trade him.

But If I'm the Jay's I'm looking at the O's now with Gausman coming into himself as a young ace and they have to match it.

O's:
Gausman 3-1 2.74 ERA 1.17 WHIP
Jimenez 2-8 4.86 ERA 1.51 WHIP
Tillman 5-4 4.85 ERA 1.49 WHIP
Chen 7-2 3.78 ERA 1.24 WHIP
Norris 6-5 3.73 ERA 1.17 WHIP
Gonzalez 4-4 4.41 ERA 1.42 WHIP

They are in pretty good shape right now.
In a year they could have Gausman, Chen, Bundy, Tillman & Norris

They really do not need Shark for short term as he already said he will become a F/A.

Jays on the other hand...They are a short term build team. They used their farm to form this team. They are already committed all in. They will pay out.

 

[brett05]

No in fact I personally doubt want to. If the payroll is stuck at the 100-110 range for the next several seasons there is no arm I want to make up 20% of the payroll. I am just pointing out that it is possible to replace Samardzija with a name if you are into that. I am more than happy for the Cubs to buy low on guys like Masterson and another to fill out a rotation.

I understand possible. No one is arguing that. There's just no guys out there to help the Cubs move along.

Masterson to me is making nearly 10 million now. He's a potential $15-17 million in free agency. I think he wants more to be a Cub.

 

[dabynsky]

I understand possible. No one is arguing that. There's just no guys out there to help the Cubs move along.

Masterson to me is making nearly 10 million now. He's a potential $15-17 million in free agency. I think he wants more to be a Cub.

As I've said by and large the front office has been right when it comes to starting pitching so far, and I trust there ability to piece together to a starting staff of keeping teams in games. If you get one stud out of that group in Iowa than this thing gets turned around pretty quick. If they all flame out then it is back to square one waiting for the next wave to get here.

 

[CSF77]

I understand possible. No one is arguing that. There's just no guys out there to help the Cubs move along.

Masterson to me is making nearly 10 million now. He's a potential $15-17 million in free agency. I think he wants more to be a Cub.

I don't see all of that stuff to be honest.

What I see is Shark traded.
Jay's offer Aaron Sanchez (#19 prospect). AAA now. He could be in the rotation out of S/T. FB: 70 Curve 65 Change 60.

Main contender is the Royals. Only guy that can match that deal is Kyle Zimmer. AA #21 prospect. FB: 70 curve: 65 Change: 55

Those 2 teams I bet get into a bidding war over Shark.

Now if Shark and Hammel go by July. I'll bet Hendricks promotes with...hate to say it Rusin. Could be Wada as he has been the ace at Iowa but I doubt they give him a 40 man spot. A dark horse would be Eric Jokisch.

My picks:
Eric Jokisch (24 in July) 5-7 3.89 ERA 1.17 WHIP
Kyle Hendricks (24 in Dec) 7-5 3.78 ERA 1.21 WHIP

Most likely
Chris Rusin (27 in Oct) 4-9 4.05 ERA 1.24 WHIP

Guy who deserves it
Tsuyoshi Wada (33) 6-4 2.82 ERA 1.23 WHIP

Age factor you go with Hendricks and Jokishch as your 4/5. You get back the best SP prospects from shark and Hammel and push forward.

Next year:
Arrieta, Wood, Jackson, Hendricks, Jokisch

That to me is a very likely outcome. In the end it is going to be Jackson who is going to be the lemon of the party. I believe the 2 kids will hold their own.

 

[dabynsky]

I don't see all of that stuff to be honest.

What I see is Shark traded.
Jay's offer Aaron Sanchez (#19 prospect). AAA now. He could be in the rotation out of S/T. FB: 70 Curve 65 Change 60.

Main contender is the Royals. Only guy that can match that deal is Kyle Zimmer. AA #21 prospect. FB: 70 curve: 65 Change: 55

Those 2 teams I bet get into a bidding war over Shark.

Now if Shark and Hammel go by July. I'll bet Hendricks promotes with...hate to say it Rusin. Could be Wada as he has been the ace at Iowa but I doubt they give him a 40 man spot. A dark horse would be Eric Jokisch.

My picks:
Eric Jokisch (24 in July) 5-7 3.89 ERA 1.17 WHIP
Kyle Hendricks (24 in Dec) 7-5 3.78 ERA 1.21 WHIP

Most likely
Chris Rusin (27 in Oct) 4-9 4.05 ERA 1.24 WHIP

Guy who deserves it
Tsuyoshi Wada (33) 6-4 2.82 ERA 1.23 WHIP

Age factor you go with Hendricks and Jokishch as your 4/5. You get back the best SP prospects from shark and Hammel and push forward.

Next year:
Arrieta, Wood, Jackson, Hendricks, Jokisch

That to me is a very likely outcome. In the end it is going to be Jackson who is going to be the lemon of the party. I believe the 2 kids will hold their own.

The other option might be for Grimm (more likely) or Ramirez to swing back into the rotation. Grimm was stretched out in the offseason and prepared to work as a starter until he came into spring training. Either way the internal options are better than they have been in years, but still think you still see a couple reclamation projects in the offseason.

 

[CSF77]

The other option might be for Grimm (more likely) or Ramirez to swing back into the rotation. Grimm was stretched out in the offseason and prepared to work as a starter until he came into spring training. Either way the internal options are better than they have been in years, but still think you still see a couple reclamation projects in the offseason.

I doubt it. If they felt Grimm was a SP he would be starting in AAA now. Ramirez is proving that he is a short man and is looking like a legit closer.

Theo went through this with Pap. You plug them in where they perform the best.

 

[CSF77]

I would have to go with age factor here and build for long term. With Baez and Bryant on the team you are looking to build around that core not buying flips. That is why they are trying to extend Shark. They are ready to get the ball rolling vs rebuild the farm now.

They just don't want to pay shark 100 mil. I believe it is age though with shark and they do not want to go past 5 years with him.

Pay him for his prime not for his decline.

 

[brett05]

Thanks CSF77 and dabs.

That rotation from today thru the end of next season smells like top five pick in 2015 and 2016. Clearly the kids might be fine in the bigs so it is no guarantee but to me next year has to be the push to a 75-83 win season. If not the front office needs to be replaced.

 

[Diehardfan]

Why don't they just pay Shark and trade Hammel? You trade them both and you get even MORE prospects? Sometime, someday they are gonna have to put a "prospect" in a Cub uniform which up until now, hasn't been something they want to do. There's no guarantee that any kid they get will turn into a MLB player....none at all. You trade Hammel and get whatever you can then in the off season, you sign a Masterson and hope a kid works out along the way and WELLAH, you have a rotation. Shark, Wood, Masterson, Arrieta and Hendricks or the useless Jackson at #5. Personally, I hope Shark breaks the fucking bank as the Cubs have been stealing from the fans since Ricketts took over. I mean for the prices they charge to watch the product they put on the field, they deserve to be raked over the coals. You know what you're getting with Shark....you never know if the kids you trade him for will ever be what you need.

 

[zack54attack]

Why don't they just pay Shark and trade Hammel? You trade them both and you get even MORE prospects? Sometime, someday they are gonna have to put a "prospect" in a Cub uniform which up until now, hasn't been something they want to do. There's no guarantee that any kid they get will turn into a MLB player....none at all. You trade Hammel and get whatever you can then in the off season, you sign a Masterson and hope a kid works out along the way and WELLAH, you have a rotation. Shark, Wood, Masterson, Arrieta and Hendricks or the useless Jackson at #5. Personally, I hope Shark breaks the fucking bank as the Cubs have been stealing from the fans since Ricketts took over. I mean for the prices they charge to watch the product they put on the field, they deserve to be raked over the coals. You know what you're getting with Shark....you never know if the kids you trade him for will ever be what you need.

Because they offered him a 5-year deal at a ton of money. He want's more. Let him go somewhere else to get more. He's pitched like an ace this season, but has struggled his last 2 starts and has been inconsistent.

He's not worth the money HE wants.

 

[The Bandit]

The more this season has gone on, the more I find myself wanting the Cubs to resign Shark, even though I stated before that we should ship him off. But as Happy Gilmore said [video=youtube;viKUu_BWqwc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viKUu_BWqwc[/video] if it isn't for the right price, sorry Shark.

 

[chibears55]

Here how I look at it..
if they sign shark for 20-22 whatever he looking for are we satisfied or confidence with him being the no.1 starter?
Cause if they pay him that money then most likely if say another Tanaka cones around in a yr or two or a true ACE becomes available, I dont think their going to be willing to fork up another 20-25 mil on another pitcher.
I also kind of think the no no trade clause was an issue for samardzija.

What they can do now is make sure in the deal of samardzija is get back a prospect who can start next year and then go out and sign a keeper FA starter so they will basically get 2 starters for the price of one.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk

 

[Diehardfan]

Because they offered him a 5-year deal at a ton of money. He want's more. Let him go somewhere else to get more. He's pitched like an ace this season, but has struggled his last 2 starts and has been inconsistent.

He's not worth the money HE wants.

So you just keep the endless loop going, huh? Wood will be coming up next as he's on a one year deal....so if he asks for too much, you just trade him more prospects too, right? All the while the fans keep getting fucked because they have nothing but "prospects" because they won't pay the veterans. Gee, maybe with the lowered payroll they'll offer more affordable seats.....yeah, sure they will. They don't sign free agents that are worth a **** (see fuckstick Jackson) so what we get are stories on how "great" the farm system is. All the while they keep pouring money into the ballpark, raising ticket prices and watching the Cub fans (lemmings) file into the park. I'm not a Sox fan by any stretch but I got to admit, they would never fall for this type of crap....Comiskey would be even emptier than it is now.

At some point, any reasonable person would ask....when will the future be today? I'm tired of waiting.

 

[CSF77]

He is worth the cash. It sounds like posters are trying to soften the blow buy him getting traded.

This is a issue of the Cubs are going to pay 100 mil or some one else will.

Name that came up in the Jay's system is Daniel Norris.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m...rect&utm_medium=linker-www.mlbtraderumors.com
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/06/al-notes-durrett-rios-moreland-jackson-kubel-jays.html

 

[Captain Obvious]

They better not let Hammel get away!!

Agreed. We better send him away.

We are talking about 15 mil here.

Wainwright:
2010: 4.5375 mil 28 yo
2011: 6.687 mil 29 yo
2012: 9 mil 30 yo
2013: 12 mil 31 yo
2014-18: 19.5 mil 32-36 YO.

Shark:
2013 2.64 mil 27 yo
2014 5.345 mil 29 yo
2015 last year of arb 30 YO
2016 F/A 31 YO

I would use that as a guideline.

2015 9 mil 30 YO
2016 12 mil 31 YO
2017 18 mil 32 YO
2018 19 mil 33 YO
2020 20 mil 34 YO
2021 20 mil 35 YO

6 year 97 mil deal.

I really don't want to pay a 35 year old Shark 20MM. That sounds horrible.

Why don't they just pay Shark and trade Hammel? You trade them both and you get even MORE prospects? Sometime, someday they are gonna have to put a "prospect" in a Cub uniform which up until now, hasn't been something they want to do. There's no guarantee that any kid they get will turn into a MLB player....none at all. You trade Hammel and get whatever you can then in the off season, you sign a Masterson and hope a kid works out along the way and WELLAH, you have a rotation. Shark, Wood, Masterson, Arrieta and Hendricks or the useless Jackson at #5. Personally, I hope Shark breaks the fucking bank as the Cubs have been stealing from the fans since Ricketts took over. I mean for the prices they charge to watch the product they put on the field, they deserve to be raked over the coals. You know what you're getting with Shark....you never know if the kids you trade him for will ever be what you need.

So we should just pay Shark just to say that we did it? It amazes me that Cubs fans just want to spend, spend, spend. I feel like we have gone through this this decade and it turned out in 3 good seasons and 5 shitty ones.

So you just keep the endless loop going, huh? Wood will be coming up next as he's on a one year deal....so if he asks for too much, you just trade him more prospects too, right? All the while the fans keep getting fucked because they have nothing but "prospects" because they won't pay the veterans. Gee, maybe with the lowered payroll they'll offer more affordable seats.....yeah, sure they will. They don't sign free agents that are worth a **** (see fuckstick Jackson) so what we get are stories on how "great" the farm system is. All the while they keep pouring money into the ballpark, raising ticket prices and watching the Cub fans (lemmings) file into the park. I'm not a Sox fan by any stretch but I got to admit, they would never fall for this type of crap....Comiskey would be even emptier than it is now.

At some point, any reasonable person would ask....when will the future be today? I'm tired of waiting.

Well Travis Wood is under team control for 2 more years...

Again, it's the impatience that is the problem. You're tired of waiting, sure. But it's been 106 years. Is another 1 or 2 really going to make that much difference? I'd certainly rather see them do it right than do it wrong again.

He is worth the cash. It sounds like posters are trying to soften the blow buy him getting traded.

This is a issue of the Cubs are going to pay 100 mil or some one else will.

Name that came up in the Jay's system is Daniel Norris.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m...rect&utm_medium=linker-www.mlbtraderumors.com
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/06/al-notes-durrett-rios-moreland-jackson-kubel-jays.html

How is he worth the cash? He's never been worth more than 3 wins. 3 wins for 6 years at 5 million per win is 90 million. The Cubs' offer of 5 years 85 million is more than fair. I just don't see the plus side in giving a 3 win pitcher 100 million.

 

[beckdawg]

Not sure if the Cubs will land any of them, but they have cash to play with next year with somewhere in the neighborhood of 40-60 million to play with.

That might be the low end actually especially if Shark's gone. I just did a quick look at their payroll going into next year and I came up with around $55 mil when you estimate arbitration cases. If you assume they have the $110 mil they had the first 2 years under theo that's, $55 mil. That's before you consider they could roll the ~$20 mil they didn't spend into that. And then you have the addition of the WGN portion of the tv contract. In all honesty, I don't think there will be enough on the market for them to spend it all. Even if they go out and toss $20 mil down on two starters you're talking about upwards of $15-30 mil more they could potentially spend. And in all honesty, I doubt they want to go more than 3-4 years on any OF because they will have prospects coming up at that point which means you're probably talking about more $10 mil/year types.

 

[nwfisch]

So we should just pay Shark just to say that we did it? It amazes me that Cubs fans just want to spend, spend, spend. I feel like we have gone through this this decade and it turned out in 3 good seasons and 5 shitty ones.


Again, it's the impatience that is the problem. You're tired of waiting, sure. But it's been 106 years. Is another 1 or 2 really going to make that much difference? I'd certainly rather see them do it right than do it wrong again.

Like Diehard says, at some point the Cubs have to build towards something. Signing and acquiring players to trade them away for more lottery tickets isn't sustained success.

Again, the arrogance that 4-5 seasons of losing is all of sudden going to reward Cub fans with success is ludicrous and needs to stop.

It's kind of funny how you said that the Cubs were best team in baseball in 2008 here, and now its reduced to a "good season."

So which is it?

BTW, the "right way" so far has led to the most losses in a 3 year stretch in Cub history. So far, not so good for the boys in blue at the MLB level.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Like Diehard says, at some point the Cubs have to build towards something. Signing and acquiring players to trade them away for more lottery tickets isn't sustained success.

Again, the arrogance that 4-5 seasons of losing is all of sudden going to reward Cub fans with success is ludicrous and needs to stop.

It's kind of funny how you said that the Cubs were best team in baseball in 2008 here, and now its reduced to a "good season."

So which is it?

BTW, the "right way" so far has led to the most losses in a 3 year stretch in Cub history. So far, not so good for the boys in blue at the MLB level.

LOL Dude, that was 3 year ago. I'm sorry I didn't go back and look at all my posts from 3 years ago to get my wording correct.

Yes, the Cubs have to build towards something, but overspending isn't the way to do that. We've overspent before. It got us to where we are right now. Paying Soriano to play for the Yankees. Overspending isn't sustained success either.

No one is saying that because we've sucked for 5 years that we're going to be good. We've sucked, but we've also built up our farm system gotten rid of all the dead weight that was on this team.

The reason the Cubs have had the most losses is because we had to get rid of the dead weight and we did not have any high level minor league talent to take their place. You can't just take over a team and give them great prospects. You have to develop them.

 

[beckdawg]

So you just keep the endless loop going, huh?

I don't think they will. However, the aspect you're missing is eventually those players they got back in trades will become cheap major league players. Maybe they work out. Maybe they don't. It's tough to say. Keep in mind the players that are their starters now weren't premium returns. Wood was for Marshall who was a bullpen arm. Arrieta was for a one year rental of Feldman. Hendricks was the return for Dempster along with Villanueva and he's yet to pitch in the majors but he's likely close to ready. Edwards, assuming he comes back strong after his DL stint is maybe 1.5 years away.

At the end of the day you shouldn't give someone money because you're desperate. Keep in mind in the case of Shark, 6 months ago they offered him 5 years and $60 mil. They went up $25 mil. If you're doing your job right the players you get back in trades will be at least as good. It would be one thing if the cubs were in a situation like say the Rockies where Tulow and Cargo are 28 and 29. Rizzo and Castro are 24 and arguably the most talented players in their entire organization are still at AAA. It's about putting as much talent as you can together at a similar age range. That gives you the best chance of having a lengthy window. In the case of Shark, he's already in his window of peak performance which doesn't line up with the rest of the talent. So while he's a good player, if he wants more money than you think he's worth you have to realize that the amount you're going to paying him when the rest of the talent is hopefully there will be even farther from what you think it should be since he will likely be on the down side of his career making the most money of his career.

The same can be said to a lessor extent about Arrieta(28) and Wood(27). So, if the team thinks they want more than they are worth and they can get adequate ore better return for them they are going to trade them. And if there's one thing this front office has done exceedingly well it's pitching. They've earned the right to have their trust.