Jeff Samardzija and Jason Hammel traded to Oakland Athletics for Addison Russell plus

[FirstTimer]

Like Diehard says, at some point the Cubs have to build towards something. Signing and acquiring players to trade them away for more lottery tickets isn't sustained success.

Again, the arrogance that 4-5 seasons of losing is all of sudden going to reward Cub fans with success is ludicrous and needs to stop.

It's kind of funny how you said that the Cubs were best team in baseball in 2008 here, and now its reduced to a "good season."

So which is it?

BTW, the "right way" so far has led to the most losses in a 3 year stretch in Cub history. So far, not so good for the boys in blue at the MLB level.

It's ok. CO is still pissy that in 2012 ESPN pretty much nailed the fact that Altuve>Barney, Alvarez>Stewart, and most of the NLC LF's>Soriano.

 

[SilenceS]

People are relying on Arrietta to much. He has always had top end stuff. He just hasnt had consistency throwing strikes. He has done well this year but is still struggling with pitch count. He isnt someone really going deep into games. I have to see more of his trend this year before I even consider him a rotation piece for next year. If you look at this year team, two bats would have put them within striking distance of the race. I was big on signing Cruz and no, I did not think he would have this kind of season but I new he was much better then what we had. Add another bat and the Cubs are pushing .500. Im not opposed to trading Hammel, but I am opposed to not signing Shark. I dont think we will get this incredible return and Homer Bailey contract should be offered to him. The Cubs have ton of money to spend and if their prospects make it wont be spending much on bats for the forseeable future. They paid Jackson 52 million and close to 15 million for 2 relievers that have pitched maybe a combined 20 games but they dont want to pay Shark? This is the market. People need to stop acting like he should sign with the Cubs for 20 million less then the market would absolutely give him. The Cubs truly could contend for a playoff spot next year without hurting the farm at all.

Unless the Cubs truly plan to sign Scherzer who will command more or Lester trading Shark is a complete step backwards.

 

[beckdawg]

Again, the arrogance that 4-5 seasons of losing is all of sudden going to reward Cub fans with success is ludicrous and needs to stop.

BTW, the "right way" so far has led to the most losses in a 3 year stretch in Cub history. So far, not so good for the boys in blue at the MLB level.

The problem with this is Dempster, Soriano and Garza don't make the cubs a winning team. Dempster put up a 4.57 ERA last year then retired. Soriano is currently hitting .229/.253/.390 and if that doesn't change he may retire too. Now he's a streaky guy and as we saw last year he can get hot. But he also could suck the rest of the season. Garza currently has a 4.02 ERA and Hammel who they signed for half the price has been worth a shit load more. Sean Marsahll had a good year in 2012 but the past 2 years has pitched 24 innings. In reality, the problem was they waited until 2012 to realize they were a non-contender. Had they traded Zambrano in 2010 or 2011 perhaps they could have actually got something of value for him rather than just eating money like they did in 2012. Same could be said for Soriano as well.

You could argue that Shark will be the first player they are trading who's still got tread on his tire. However, he had a 4.34 ERA lat year and a 3.81 ERA the year before that. Are we really saying that sort of performance is worth $17 mil/year? I mean I get it, he's been great this year. However, last year he had a 3.35 ERA and Mar/April and a 2.31 ERA in may before falling off hard in the second half with months of 4.20, 5.28, 5.54, and 5.58 ERA. He's far from a sure thing. You can make a decent argue on either side that he's either an ace level pitcher or not. But to go out and pay him like he's already that player when he's yet to consistently perform at that level is quite dangerous. What if this start is a fluke?

Regardless, the reason the cubs are losing isn't that they are trading away their "stars." The reason they are losing was prior to 2011 Hendry drafted like shit. Maybe that was his fault and maybe it was the owners. At this point it doesn't really matter who is to blame. What matter is what have they gotten out of the farm system in the past 3 years? Castillo? Lake? Rusin? Even if you're generous and throw in Shark and Rizzo(trade of Cashner) that's hardly a ringing endorsement. Those "star" players didn't make a fucking difference in 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013. So, what would having them all in 2014 have done?

 

[SilenceS]

Also, people Wood is going back to what he is a nice 4 on a team. He shouldnt be considered a 3 on a team. Some were going far enough to call him a 2 which was ridiculous. Wood is like a Ted Lilly. Will have good seasons, but mostly will keep you in games and go 6 plus for you. Thats all he is and all people should expect out of him.

 

[SilenceS]

Holy ****, do not blame Hendry for this team and what this FO is doing. That was over 3 years ago. That is insanity and looking for an out.

 

[SilenceS]

Oh and Shark has only been a starter for 3 years? He learned how to pitch. He is better than Homer Bailey and the Reds had no problem giving him that money. The Cubs should have no problem for Shark

 

[FirstTimer]

The problem with this is Dempster, Soriano and Garza don't make the cubs a winning team. Dempster put up a 4.57 ERA last year then retired. Soriano is currently hitting .229/.253/.390 and if that doesn't change he may retire too. Now he's a streaky guy and as we saw last year he can get hot. But he also could suck the rest of the season. Garza currently has a 4.02 ERA and Hammel who they signed for half the price has been worth a shit load more. Sean Marsahll had a good year in 2012 but the past 2 years has pitched 24 innings. In reality, the problem was they waited until 2012 to realize they were a non-contender. Had they traded Zambrano in 2010 or 2011 perhaps they could have actually got something of value for him rather than just eating money like they did in 2012. Same could be said for Soriano as well.

You could argue that Shark will be the first player they are trading who's still got tread on his tire. However, he had a 4.34 ERA lat year and a 3.81 ERA the year before that. Are we really saying that sort of performance is worth $17 mil/year? I mean I get it, he's been great this year. However, last year he had a 3.35 ERA and Mar/April and a 2.31 ERA in may before falling off hard in the second half with months of 4.20, 5.28, 5.54, and 5.58 ERA. He's far from a sure thing. You can make a decent argue on either side that he's either an ace level pitcher or not. But to go out and pay him like he's already that player when he's yet to consistently perform at that level is quite dangerous. What if this start is a fluke?

Regardless, the reason the cubs are losing isn't that they are trading away their "stars." The reason they are losing was prior to 2011 Hendry drafted like shit. Maybe that was his fault and maybe it was the owners. At this point it doesn't really matter who is to blame. What matter is what have they gotten out of the farm system in the past 3 years? Castillo? Lake? Rusin? Even if you're generous and throw in Shark and Rizzo(trade of Cashner) that's hardly a ringing endorsement. Those "star" players didn't make a fucking difference in 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013. So, what would having them all in 2014 have done?

The argument back is going to be that ownership etc should have gone full on Yanks/Red Sox and went after guys like Yu, Fielder, Hamilton, Pujols, McCann, etc etc etc

 

[FirstTimer]

Oh and Shark has only been a starter for 3 years? He learned how to pitch. He is better than Homer Bailey and the Reds had no problem giving him that money. The Cubs should have no problem for Shark

Because the Reds made a mistake the Cubs should?

 

[SilenceS]

Baez, Alcantara is Hendry's and so is Volgelbach. Castro, Rizzo/Cashner, Shark, Castillo, Lake are all Hendrys.

 

[SilenceS]

Because the Reds made a mistake the Cubs should?

The Reds made a mistake? Bailey would have got more on the market.

 

[nwfisch]

The argument back is going to be that ownership etc should have gone full on Yanks/Red Sox and went after guys like Yu, Fielder, Hamilton, Pujols, McCann, etc etc etc

That's just it FT. Signing just ONE of those guys makes the team better now and in the future. It's one less checkbox that needs to be filled by a prospect.


Even though Fielder has a neck issue now, he was among the most durable players in the game. Injuries happen.

 

[beckdawg]

People are relying on Arrietta to much. He has always had top end stuff. He just hasnt had consistency throwing strikes. He has done well this year but is still struggling with pitch count. He isnt someone really going deep into games. I have to see more of his trend this year before I even consider him a rotation piece for next year. If you look at this year team, two bats would have put them within striking distance of the race. I was big on signing Cruz and no, I did not think he would have this kind of season but I new he was much better then what we had. Add another bat and the Cubs are pushing .500. Im not opposed to trading Hammel, but I am opposed to not signing Shark. I dont think we will get this incredible return and Homer Bailey contract should be offered to him. The Cubs have ton of money to spend and if their prospects make it wont be spending much on bats for the forseeable future. They paid Jackson 52 million and close to 15 million for 2 relievers that have pitched maybe a combined 20 games but they dont want to pay Shark? This is the market. People need to stop acting like he should sign with the Cubs for 20 million less then the market would absolutely give him. The Cubs truly could contend for a playoff spot next year without hurting the farm at all.

Unless the Cubs truly plan to sign Scherzer who will command more or Lester trading Shark is a complete step backwards.

Props on the Cruz call. I saw his road splits and didn't expect much if anything. As for shark, $17 mil/season is pretty reasonable offer for someone with a career 3.96 ERA and 3.78 FIP. I mean I get you're buying into the idea that he'll be better going forward. Bailey was coming off of seasons of 3.68/3.97 ERA/FIP and 3.49/3.31. As I said in another post, Shark also started strong last year before fading. So, while he may be past that this year the worry is still there. And considering Bailey got $17.5 mil per year that's pretty a pretty fair offer for 5 years and $85 mil to Shark.

 

[FirstTimer]

Baez, Alcantara is Hendry's and so is Volgelbach. Castro, Rizzo/Cashner, Shark, Castillo, Lake are all Hendrys.

Wut

 

[FirstTimer]

The Reds made a mistake? Bailey would have got more on the market.

Yes. Bailey isn't good. He's overpaid.

The hell is unclear about this?

 

[SilenceS]

I will say I am not to sure if Shark just wants out as well. His comments dont seem very pleasant in the media. If the Cubs plan to sign a big fish then trading prospects for Shark wouldnt be bad. I just dont have great faith in ownership dropping the necessary money to land that big fish.

 

[FirstTimer]

That's just it FT. Signing just ONE of those guys makes the team better now and in the future. It's one less checkbox that needs to be filled by a prospect.


Even though Fielder has a neck issue now, he was among the most durable players in the game. Injuries happen.

Maybe, maybe not.

I think the overarching issue is that the team was such a shithole of bad money and players that unless the Cubs went full on Daddy Warbucks this problem wasn't going to be fixed. You could have signed a guy like Fielder to placate the fans..but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't do much. I think the entire idea of "injuries happen" is why you don't spend that type of money until organizationally you're strong enough(and deep enough) to deal with that reality. The Cubs weren't/aren't.

 

[SilenceS]

Yes. Bailey isn't good. He's overpaid.

The hell is unclear about this?

Oh God, here we go with players being overpaid. Stupid argument. Bailey had two years of great improvement and was 27. They said he would have got 120 million or so on the market. The Reds made the right decision on Bailey.

 

[nwfisch]

Maybe, maybe not.

I think the overarching issue is that the team was such a shithole of bad money and players that unless the Cubs went full on Daddy Warbucks this problem wasn't going to be fixed. You could have signed a guy like Fielder to placate the fans..but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't do much. I think the entire idea of "injuries happen" is why you don't spend that type of money until organizationally you're strong enough(and deep enough) to deal with that reality. The Cubs weren't/aren't.

But the Cubs didn't have a problem paying Edwin Jackson $13M a year.

 

[SilenceS]

Wut

Rizzo was traded for Cashner which was Hendry's. It was a response to Beckdawg that said if you want to consider Rizzo part of that because Cashner was Hendry's. Happy reading to you.

 

[FirstTimer]

Oh God, here we go with players being overpaid. Stupid argument. Bailey had two years of great improvement and was 27. They said he would have got 120 million or so on the market. The Reds made the right decision on Bailey.

Obviously they didn't because HE'S CURRENTLY BAD.

That's like arguing you can excuse Angelo's drafting of Benson because Jones hadn't shown himself to be anything but Benson had potential and a bunch of people felt Benson was a top pick. Benson sucked. Bailey's "great improvement was some middling ERA+ production.

Right now You're getting Edwin Jackson production out of Bailey.

Total good signing!