Jeff Samardzija and Jason Hammel traded to Oakland Athletics for Addison Russell plus

[FirstTimer]

Lol, thats why top end pitching is way more coveted then a first baseman?

I necver said than a certain position. In general everyday player>>>>>>>pitcher.

If I'm the Padres where I know I can get better value out of below market arms due to my park I'm not trading young cheap team controlled bats for a pitcher. The bat is more valuable to me because producing runs is more difficult for my team than preventing runs.

The Padres traded one of the best hitting prospects in baseball for kind of a middling prospect arm. Cool.

Yes the trade is a steal and has been.

Hoyer realize he called up Rizzo too quickly. If Rizzo figured his shit out in San Diego his bat would have played fine there. That's the Padres rationalizing stupidity...especially given that they went out and tried to get Yonder Alonso....which allowed them to trade Rizzo.

 

[SilenceS]

I thought the cubs did offer shark Bailey money and he turned it down...

Bailey got 6 years 105. The Cubs wont go over 5 years which I would guess is a problem for Shark considering this is his big contract for his career. Baileys contract is kind of weird. He is only making 9 million this year and then goes up every year. He also gets paid in November. lol

 

[chibears55]

I will say I am not to sure if Shark just wants out as well. His comments dont seem very pleasant in the media. If the Cubs plan to sign a big fish then trading prospects for Shark wouldnt be bad. I just dont have great faith in ownership dropping the necessary money to land that big fish.

I think he wanted that no trade clause and at least 20 mil.

 

[SilenceS]

I necver said than a certain position. In general everyday player>>>>>>>pitcher.

If I'm the Padres where I know I can get better value out of below market arms due to my park I'm not trading young cheap team controlled bats for a pitcher. The bat is more valuable to me because producing runs is more difficult for my team than preventing runs.

The Padres traded one of the best hitting prospects in baseball for kind of a middling prospect arm. Cool.

Yes the trade is a steal and has been.

Hoyer realize he called up Rizzo too quickly. If Rizzo figured his shit out in San Diego his bat would have played fine there. That's the Padres rationalizing stupidity...especially given that they went out and tried to get Yonder Alonso....which allowed them to trade Rizzo.

Cool, so basically you made up a conclusion based on no facts. Great story.

 

[SilenceS]

I think he wanted that no trade clause and at least 20 mil.

Yea, its what most pitchers want.

 

[SilenceS]

This is details of Baileys contract.

he Cleveland Plain Dealer reported Sunday night that the sides were nearing agreement on a six-year, $100 million contract.

The deal includes a $25 million mutual option for 2020 with a $5 million buyout and would help the Cincinnati Reds with their cash flow by deferring some of the salary for short periods.

Bailey would get salaries of $9 million this year, $10 million in 2015, $18 million in 2016, $19 million in 2017, $21 million in 2018 and $23 million in 2019. In an unusual twist, much of the annual salary would be deferred until the November after each season.

Bailey would be paid in-season amounts of $3 million this year, $4 million next year, $11 million in 2016, $12 million in 2017, $14 million in 2018 and $15 million in 2019.

If he were to be traded, his new team would have to pay all of the salary amounts during the season. Also, the $5 million buyout would be paid when either side decides not to exercise the option rather than having it deferred until November 2020.

 

[beckdawg]

I have no problem with the farm. I have a problem with some of the way they got there and also how some fans dismiss some things that show some red flags.

So to be clear here, you're suggesting that what they got out of the farm from 2002-2010 is fine? If so I'm not sure how to respond to that. The last star level player they drafted was Prior in 2002. Since then, Donaldson is arguably the second best player and they traded him away in the Harden deal. After that it's probably Shark who's been fine and all but you're still talking about 8.2 WAR in 7 major league seasons thus far. Cashner similarly has 3.5 career WAR in 5 seasons. Barney and LeMahieu are arguably bench players at best possibly 4A types.

I mean I get it, you're not going to hit a home run on every draft pick in baseball. That's not how it works. but over 9 drafts they got maybe 3 average or better players players(Donaldson, Shark, Cashner) two of which weren't good enough quick enough to stay with the team and blossomed else where and a third who's only fully reaching his potential 2 years prior to FA. And it's not like they didn't have some premium picks. They drafted 6th in 2003. They drafted 13th in 2006. They drafted 3rd in 2007. They drafted 16th in 2010.

I'm not even saying they have to be super star level players. We're talking about 3 players in 9 years that are average or above players from the draft. Whether the blame is on the tribune or Hendry is irrelevant at this point. I honestly don't see how any team can survive that sort of prospect drought. You'd either have to be amazing at signing IFAs, FA's and/or trades to make that sort of team work without a bigger infusion of home grown talent. That is why we are where we are. The team was great at finding talent in the years leading up to 2001-2002 with guys like Wood, Zambrano, and Prior but since then the cubs have been poor at adding/developing young talent regardless of who the fault lies with. Shark as good as he may be isn't even as good as Zambrano was. In his first 7 seasons he put up around 20 WAR as a comparison. And I'm not saying that to slight Shark just point out the gap in talent between the years when the cubs were legitimate contenders and what they are now.

 

[beckdawg]

I thought the cubs did offer shark Bailey money and he turned it down...

The reports were that the cubs offered Shark 5 years at a little more than $85 which is 17 mil/season. Bailey's 6 year $105 would be $17.5 mil. So comparatively they are pretty close especially when you consider that Bailey up until the contract had shown more consistency. As I said before, I think 5 years $85 mil is more than fair. At 5 years that puts Shark through age 34 which I really doubt the cubs want to give any 35 year old pitcher $17 mil or more.

I honestly don't get the complains of some here about the cubs not wanting to pay him because if those reports are true that offer is well in line with what Shark deserves. If we work off of FIP which has often favored Shark, he's around a 3.50 pitcher over the past 3 years which is in line with what Bailey was the two years prior to his deal.

 

[SilenceS]

So to be clear here, you're suggesting that what they got out of the farm from 2002-2010 is fine? If so I'm not sure how to respond to that. The last star level player they drafted was Prior in 2002. Since then, Donaldson is arguably the second best player and they traded him away in the Harden deal. After that it's probably Shark who's been fine and all but you're still talking about 8.2 WAR in 7 major league seasons thus far. Cashner similarly has 3.5 career WAR in 5 seasons. Barney and LeMahieu are arguably bench players at best possibly 4A types.

I mean I get it, you're not going to hit a home run on every draft pick in baseball. That's not how it works. but over 9 drafts they got maybe 3 average or better players players(Donaldson, Shark, Cashner) two of which weren't good enough quick enough to stay with the team and blossomed else where and a third who's only fully reaching his potential 2 years prior to FA. And it's not like they didn't have some premium picks. They drafted 6th in 2003. They drafted 13th in 2006. They drafted 3rd in 2007. They drafted 16th in 2010.

I'm not even saying they have to be super star level players. We're talking about 3 players in 9 years that are average or above players from the draft. Whether the blame is on the tribune or Hendry is irrelevant at this point. I honestly don't see how any team can survive that sort of prospect drought. You'd either have to be amazing at signing IFAs, FA's and/or trades to make that sort of team work without a bigger infusion of home grown talent. That is why we are where we are. The team was great at finding talent in the years leading up to 2001-2002 with guys like Wood, Zambrano, and Prior but since then the cubs have been poor at adding/developing young talent regardless of who the fault lies with. Shark as good as he may be isn't even as good as Zambrano was. In his first 7 seasons he put up around 20 WAR as a comparison. And I'm not saying that to slight Shark just point out the gap in talent between the years when the cubs were legitimate contenders and what they are now.

I was talking present day farm. That was about Theo regime. Sorry.

 

[Diehardfan]

A couple of things....I'm not saying the Cubs should go all Jim Hendry on us. That comes later when Theo is about to get the boot. I'm saying sign your players that were at one time, "prospects"....the organization's favorite word. I mean it's a guy they drafted, pushed through the system, suffered as he learned how to pitch and is now ready to go. But hold on now, he actually wants to get paid big money....no,no, no, no can't do that...after you drafted, trained and molded him into a good pitcher, you let him go elsewhere to become a star player. The decimal points are way different now but it sure sounds a lot like a Greg Maddox scenario to me. This is why they are what they are, they always find a new way to be stupid...they've been doing it for over a hundred years, so why stop now?

One last thing....why the **** do any of you care how much money the Cubs spend or don't spend. It's not your money...if they spend it poorly, it don't cost you a thing. They never hesitate to jack ticket prices....do you think if they spend less, it'll cost you less? LOL, fat chance of that. There's no salary cap in MLB, let the morons spend what they want. They can pay everyone on the team 20 mil for all I care.

 

[theberserkfury]

One last thing....why the **** do any of you care how much money the Cubs spend or don't spend. It's not your money...if they spend it poorly, it don't cost you a thing. They never hesitate to jack ticket prices....do you think if they spend less, it'll cost you less? LOL, fat chance of that. There's no salary cap in MLB, let the morons spend what they want. They can pay everyone on the team 20 mil for all I care.

Because there's still a limit on what they can/will spend... so it makes sense for us to want them to spend it wisely so that we see the best team possible out on the field...

 

[nwfisch]

Because there's still a limit on what they can/will spend... so it makes sense for us to want them to spend it wisely so that we see the best team possible out on the field...

Yeah all of the financial titles that the As and Rays have won look really nice

 

[Diehardfan]

Because there's still a limit on what they can/will spend... so it makes sense for us to want them to spend it wisely so that we see the best team possible out on the field...

Bullshit. Who put this "mythical" limit on what they spend? Oh, maybe it's the same limit the Yankees and Red Sox use. Good teams spend what they need to spend to get where they want to go....sometimes it works, sometimes not. It's the price of doing business.

 

[beckdawg]

I was talking present day farm. That was about Theo regime. Sorry.

Ah, ok it's cool. Like I said, I'm really not trying to shit on Hendry. We've had that argument before and while I think he should take some blame even if he did have budget issues for the draft/win now mentality from ownership, I can see your side. Like I said, all I'm trying to get at here is that's why the cubs got to this point.

 

[chibears55]

why the **** do any of you care how much money the Cubs spend or don't spend

I don't, but it seems like you do

It's not your money

some ways it is.. buying a ticket, merchandise, etc

if they spend it poorly, it don't cost you a thing

yea it does, I have to watch an overpaid bad player play on a team I like

They never hesitate to jack ticket prices

actually the rickets for 3 straight seasons 2011 - 2013 lowered season ticket prices

do you think if they spend less, it'll cost you less?

it actually did the last 3 years.. I personally got free tickets this year =)

There's no salary cap in MLB, let the morons spend what they want.

the morons are spending what they want

They can pay everyone on the team 20 mil for all I care.

and they choose not to

 

[beckdawg]

Yeah all of the financial titles that the As and Rays have won look really nice

You poke fun but those teams have remained pretty consistently relevant despite a huge disadvantage in terms of resources because they were financially frugal. I've said it for awhile now but that's part of the reason the Cardinals have been relevant as long as they have. They've had the money to lock up their own good young players unlike the A's/Rays because they often haven't went crazy in FA. They've also been able to acquire all-star level talent from other teams because if it in trades(Holliday, Rolen, McGwire, Edmons...etc).

A fair point could be brought up about the Yankees but the thing is, up until the recent dodgers ownership, there's only been 1 team that's the Yankees. Even back in the war between the Yankees and the Sox the Yanks were far and away spending more money. In 2010, the Sox spent $168,109,833. The same year the yanks spent $213,359,389 or 27% more. If you increase the A's payroll 27% you're roughly in the mid-market range with the Cards. So, the reality is there are 4 markets(small, mid, large, yankees).

Even if you talk about a team like the phillies that recently went big on spending, they only had a 5 year period where they made playoff runs and then they crapped out under the weight of contracts like Howards. The past 8 years they've gone down to a .500 team, then .407 last year and a .457 this year. The same thing has happened to the Angels despite drafting a once in a generation player like Trout. Both of these teams are large market teams and haven't been able to spend their way out of the problem. The yanks are really the only team that has had enough money to do that long term. And even then, they've only won a single title since 2001 losing twice in the WS, twice in the ALCS and a bunch of first round losses.

 

[Diehardfan]

I don't, but it seems like you do



some ways it is.. buying a ticket, merchandise, etc



yea it does, I have to watch an overpaid bad player play on a team I like



actually the rickets for 3 straight seasons 2011 - 2013 lowered season ticket prices



it actually did the last 3 years.. I personally got free tickets this year =)



the morons are spending what they want



and they choose not to

Wow, that's all really, really interesting and clever. Just wondering where that has got you being an obvious Cub fan or the ball club themselves in say, oh the last 108 years or so?

 

[chibears55]

Wow, that's all really, really interesting and clever. Just wondering where that has got you being an obvious Cub fan or the ball club themselves in say, oh the last 108 years or so?

couldn't resist to have a little fun answering those questions. .
nothing personal. .

were all frustrated fans.. I love the game and I chose to love the cubs as a kid.. sure its frustrating not seeing them win it all but for me at the end of the day its just a game and I dont let what they do determine how I live my life., meaning im not jumping off a bridge whenever they suck. . if that was the case I would of never made it pass 10 Years old...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T217A using Tapatalk

 

[Diehardfan]

couldn't resist to have a little fun answering those questions. .
nothing personal. .

were all frustrated fans.. I love the game and I chose to love the cubs as a kid.. sure its frustrating not seeing them win it all but for me at the end of the day its just a game and I dont let what they do determine how I live my life., meaning im not jumping off a bridge whenever they suck. . if that was the case I would of never made it pass 10
Years old...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T217A using Tapatalk

I hear ya.

Here's a thought....what do you think might have happened to the Cubs if John McDonough didn't get enticed by Rocky Wirtz's offer? I mean he took the what many called the worst franchise in pro sports (Blackhawks) and in a few short years made them one of the best franchises in sports. What if the Cubs had retained him and gave him the power that Wirtz did?

Well, as a huge Hawk fan....I'd still be in a funk as would the team probably....just wonder how that might have worked out for the Cubs.

 

[theberserkfury]

Bullshit. Who put this "mythical" limit on what they spend? Oh, maybe it's the same limit the Yankees and Red Sox use. Good teams spend what they need to spend to get where they want to go....sometimes it works, sometimes not. It's the price of doing business.

I didn't say it's right or good business that they cap it at whatever they decide to cap it at... but you're not living in reality if you don't think there's a cap...

Your question was about why the fans should care... and they should care because whether they like it or not, there is likely a real cap on what the front office is gonna pay... so it's in our best interest as fans for them to use their money wisely.