Jeff Samardzija and Jason Hammel traded to Oakland Athletics for Addison Russell plus

[FirstTimer]

But the Cubs didn't have a problem paying Edwin Jackson $13M a year.

The pitching market is fucked. assclowns like Homer Bailey make $17 million. The Cubs had no pitching depth to draw from. They had to sign someone. Hell right now Jackson is cheap! Bailey is making more money and pitching worse. He's currently a bargain by some standards. Jackson's money will look better as the next two years go by.

 

[FirstTimer]

Rizzo was traded for Cashner which was Hendry's. It was a response to Beckdawg that said if you want to consider Rizzo part of that because Cashner was Hendry's. Happy reading to you.

I read it. Your conclusion is still dumb. You're basically giving Hendry credit for Epstein making a better move and getting rid of an overvalued asset in Cashner for a better prospect in Rizzo. A move that Hendry likely never would have done.

 

[beckdawg]

Baez, Alcantara is Hendry's and so is Volgelbach. Castro, Rizzo/Cashner, Shark, Castillo, Lake are all Hendrys.

Like I said, I don't care who you want to blame. Obviously you would put it on ownership for limits on draft budget. That's fine. My point was the last 3 years they've got very little home grown talent out of their own farm system and that goes back to drafting prior to 2011 where Hendry did bring in most of the guys you mention.

I mean look at the top five rounds since 2005
2005
Mark W Pawelek LHP, Donald T Veal LHP, Michael J Billek RHP, Mark E Holliman RHP, Dylan J Johnston SS, Scott W Taylor RHP

2006(didn't have 2-4 picks)
Tyler E Colvin LF, Jeffrey A Samardzija RHP

2007
Joshua W Vitters 3B, Joshua A Donaldson C(would be great if he wasn't traded for Harden :-/), Anthony D Thomas 2B, Darwin J Barney SS, Brandon E Guyer RF

2008
Andrew B Cashner RHP, Ryan E Flaherty SS, Aaron R Shafer RHP, Christopher J Carpenter RHP, Matthew A Cerda SS, Justin T Bristow RHP

2009
Brett Jackson CF, DJ LeMahieu IF, Austin Kirk P, Chris Rusin P, Wes Darvill SS

2010
Hayden Simpson RHP, Reggie Golden CF, Micah Gibbs C, Hunter Ackerman LHP, Matt Szczur OF

How many major league starters are we talking here? We've got Shark, Donaldson albeit for another team, Barney(sorta), Cashner, and LeMahieu(sorta). Again, if you want to say the trib didn't give the draft budget Hendry needed to have more 2011 like drafts fine. I'm just saying that's a pretty crappy group of talent to hit the majors over 6 years.

edit here's some other guys they found later
James C Russell(2007 14th round), Anthony E Campana(2008 13th round), Sonny D Gray(2008 27th unsigned )

I don't recognize anyone else just skimming the list

 

[DewsSox79]

Because they offered him a 5-year deal at a ton of money. He want's more. Let him go somewhere else to get more. He's pitched like an ace this season, but has struggled his last 2 starts and has been inconsistent.

He's not worth the money HE wants.

this for sure.

 

[DewsSox79]

The pitching market is fucked. assclowns like Homer Bailey make $17 million. The Cubs had no pitching depth to draw from. They had to sign someone. Hell right now Jackson is cheap! Bailey is making more money and pitching worse. He's currently a bargain by some standards. Jackson's money will look better as the next two years go by.

which is really sad.

 

[FirstTimer]

which is really sad.

I think over the next two to three years(possibly even including this one) Jackson is only on the rolls from like $11 million a season..which is less than he was making in Washington his final season with them when he earned the Cubs contract.

 

[nwfisch]

A factor that was overlooked by even myself is Chris Bosio seems to get the best out of pitchers sans Jackson.

So looking at it from that frame, yeah I could probably see and understand why they wouldn't want to pay Shark.

 

[SilenceS]

I read it. Your conclusion is still dumb. You're basically giving Hendry credit for Epstein making a better move and getting rid of an overvalued asset in Cashner for a better prospect in Rizzo. A move that Hendry likely never would have done.

Cashner is overvalued. Have you even looked at his past two years or were you to busy humping Rory?

 

[SilenceS]

Like I said, I don't care who you want to blame. Obviously you would put it on ownership for limits on draft budget. That's fine. My point was the last 3 years they've got very little home grown talent out of their own farm system and that goes back to drafting prior to 2011 where Hendry did bring in most of the guys you mention.

I mean look at the top five rounds since 2005
2005
Mark W Pawelek LHP, Donald T Veal LHP, Michael J Billek RHP, Mark E Holliman RHP, Dylan J Johnston SS, Scott W Taylor RHP

2006(didn't have 2-4 picks)
Tyler E Colvin LF, Jeffrey A Samardzija RHP

2007
Joshua W Vitters 3B, Joshua A Donaldson C(would be great if he wasn't traded for Harden :-/), Anthony D Thomas 2B, Darwin J Barney SS, Brandon E Guyer RF

2008
Andrew B Cashner RHP, Ryan E Flaherty SS, Aaron R Shafer RHP, Christopher J Carpenter RHP, Matthew A Cerda SS, Justin T Bristow RHP

2009
Brett Jackson CF, DJ LeMahieu IF, Austin Kirk P, Chris Rusin P, Wes Darvill SS

2010
Hayden Simpson RHP, Reggie Golden CF, Micah Gibbs C, Hunter Ackerman LHP, Matt Szczur OF

How many major league starters are we talking here? We've got Shark, Donaldson albeit for another team, Barney(sorta), Cashner, and LeMahieu(sorta). Again, if you want to say the trib didn't give the draft budget Hendry needed to have more 2011 like drafts fine. I'm just saying that's a pretty crappy group of talent to hit the majors over 6 years.

edit here's some other guys they found later
James C Russell(2007 14th round), Anthony E Campana(2008 13th round), Sonny D Gray(2008 27th unsigned )

I don't recognize anyone else just skimming the list

We have been through this and I have shown the draft money spent. That was ownership just like its ownership now with payroll.

 

[SilenceS]

The pitching market is fucked. assclowns like Homer Bailey make $17 million. The Cubs had no pitching depth to draw from. They had to sign someone. Hell right now Jackson is cheap! Bailey is making more money and pitching worse. He's currently a bargain by some standards. Jackson's money will look better as the next two years go by.

Bailey age and improvement is why he was signed. I didnt know players dont have some ups and downs? I thought baseball was played by machines that produce the same at all times. Thanks for clearing this up. You should set the market. Im sure baseball is waiting for you to correct them.

 

[FirstTimer]

Cashner is overvalued. Have you even looked at his past two years or were you to busy humping Rory?

Cashner is 2012 was below average.

Cashner 2013. meh. Slightly above average

Cashner this year..off to a great start but here's the rub the Padre's giving up Rizzo for Cashner was idiotic. Pitching in the NL West in places like SD,SF, and LA you don't need better arms. Park factors help you out a huge amount in those places. Giving up a high level hitting spec for a kinda alright starter/reliever doesn't make much sense. Cashner to the Padres was a way overvalued asset. The Cubs made a steal there. I doubt Hendry makes that deal. Thanks though.

 

[beckdawg]

We have been through this and I have shown the draft money spent. That was ownership just like its ownership now with payroll.

And you're missing my point. I don't care who it was. The end result is what I'm pointing at. I honestly don't give a crap if it was Hendry or the trib. My point is that when you get that little out of your own farm system you're going to be a bad team. Fisch was commenting that essentially the sell offs are what caused this crappy set of seasons. My point was that when you have an aging team like they did in 2009 and 2010 and you get so very little out of your own farm you're going to be bad regardless. I thought I was pretty clear about that.

 

[FirstTimer]

Bailey age and improvement is why he was signed.

Yeah great...and in retrospect..not the greatest move. The Reds paid based on two years rather than his body of MLB work. Shit happens. I'm simply saying that excusing a risky Samardzija deal by citing the iffy Bailey contract for a Cubs team that isn't going anywhere fast is rather absurd. At least the Red could say they were trying to keep Bailey around to make WS/Pennant runs so they are willing to overpay the market to keep a solid arm.

 

[FirstTimer]

And you're missing my point. I don't care who it was. The end result is what I'm pointing at. I honestly don't give a crap if it was Hendry or the trib. My point is that when you get that little out of your own farm system you're going to be a bad team. Fisch was commenting that essentially the sell offs are what caused this crappy set of seasons. My point was that when you have an aging team like they did in 2009 and 2010 and you get so very little out of your own farm you're going to be bad regardless. I thought I was pretty clear about that.

It's basically the Bears 2013 defense. Bad old money is let go or under performs or gets hurt..in either case it's unproductive. You have years of bad drafts not refilling that pipeline and then 2013 the bottom falls out. Same theory.

 

[SilenceS]

Cashner is 2012 was below average.

Cashner 2013. meh. Slightly above average

Cashner this year..off to a great start but here's the rub the Padre's giving up Rizzo for Cashner was idiotic. Pitching in the NL West in places like SD,SF, and LA you don't need better arms. Park factors help you out a huge amount in those places. Giving up a high level hitting spec for a kinda alright starter/reliever doesn't make much sense. Cashner to the Padres was a way overvalued asset. The Cubs made a steal there. I doubt Hendry makes that deal. Thanks though.

Cashner was below average then what was Rizzo? lol Do you follow baseball or do you skim and make conclusions? The latter is making more sense. Cashner had a way better year then Rizzo last year. This year Rizzo has stepped up and Cashner is having a great year as well. To call the trade a steal is fucking dumb.

 

[SilenceS]

And you're missing my point. I don't care who it was. The end result is what I'm pointing at. I honestly don't give a crap if it was Hendry or the trib. My point is that when you get that little out of your own farm system you're going to be a bad team. Fisch was commenting that essentially the sell offs are what caused this crappy set of seasons. My point was that when you have an aging team like they did in 2009 and 2010 and you get so very little out of your own farm you're going to be bad regardless. I thought I was pretty clear about that.

I have no problem with the farm. I have a problem with some of the way they got there and also how some fans dismiss some things that show some red flags.

 

[FirstTimer]

Cashner was below average then what was Rizzo? lol Do you follow baseball or do you skim and make conclusions? The latter is making more sense. Cashner had a way better year then Rizzo last year. This year Rizzo has stepped up and Cashner is having a great year as well. To call the trade a steal is fucking dumb.

You do realize that based on league averages Rizzo's "down year" last year was still inline with the league average right?! Rizzo's downside so far at the MLB as a regular has been league average. Cashner's has been 15% below that pitching in a pitchers paradise.

You're intellectually bankrupt. Stop.

An everyday player>>>>pitcher. Especially if I'm forming a team in San Diego where my park helps my pitchers out.

 

[SilenceS]

You do realize that based on league averages Rizzo's "down year" last year was still inline with the league average right?! Rizzo's downside so far at the MLB as a regular has been league average. Cashner's has been 15% below that pitching in a pitchers paradise.

You're intellectually bankrupt. Stop.

An everyday player>>>>pitcher. Especially if I'm forming a team in San Diego where my park helps my pitchers out.

Lol, thats why top end pitching is way more coveted then a first baseman? You do realize the Padres traded Rizzo because his bat didnt play well at Petco? Also, you keep talking like Cashner was this bad pitcher before the Padres. He was a highly rated prospect that only had 5 major league starts. He has a ERA+ of 112 lst year and has a 145 ERA+ this year. YEt again, you are one stupid ******. To call the trade a steal is about as stupid of a post that I have ever seen.

 

[SilenceS]

You want to see a steal of a trade how about Kenny Lofton and Aramis Ramirez for Jose Hernandez, Matt Bruback, and Bobby Hill. Now that is a fucking steal.

 

[chibears55]

Oh and Shark has only been a starter for 3 years? He learned how to pitch. He is better than Homer Bailey and the Reds had no problem giving him that money. The Cubs should have no problem for Shark

I thought the cubs did offer shark Bailey money and he turned it down...