Jeff Samardzija and Jason Hammel traded to Oakland Athletics for Addison Russell plus

[Parade_Rain]

Why is Castro off limits?

Why are you trading center pieces away when they are 8 games under .500? That makes zero sense. Baez isn't up and who knows if he can succeed at the MLB level? Russell is in AA currently and will likely be in AAA next season. Castro has rebounded and will have better power numbers this season. He has not entered his prime power years yet and has a team-friendly contract. But yeah. Let's just bank on a bunch of prospects and trade a known AS for pitchers who may or may not help the ball cub get to .500.

 

[chibears55]

Why is Castro off limits?

Its not that he off limit, some are all ready to trade castro when there really no reason to do so now..

Baez is the nearest replacement for him who is still a season away and could easily be moved to 3B or 2B when brought up.

The guy they just got Addison Russell is at least 2 seasons away


There absolutely no reason to trade a 24 YO SS now who starting to come into his own and tied up for the next 6 yrs on a team friendly deal..

The earliest I see them possibly trading castro would be off season 2015 or deadline 2016 if they feel baez is better suited at SS or Russell forces the move for him to play there..

 

[beckdawg]

The guy they just got Addison Russell is at least 2 seasons away

Not saying the rest of what you said is wrong but this might be. He was already in AA. They like players to get 500 PAs in at a level which means Russell with 97 in AFL last year and 57 currently in AA could probably get there by the end of the season leading to a start in Iowa or more likely a very early season call up. From there you're talking about what... next August if he stays healthy for 500ish PAs? Alcantara is at 349 so give or take another month. Granted, they will likely be in no rush to call him up given they have no clue where to play him at that point. But, if a Castro trade materializes it's not like he's unready.

 

[SilenceS]

He will play in the AFL most likely to make up for his time lost.

 

[chibears55]

Not saying the rest of what you said is wrong but this might be. He was already in AA. They like players to get 500 PAs in at a level which means Russell with 97 in AFL last year and 57 currently in AA could probably get there by the end of the season leading to a start in Iowa or more likely a very early season call up. From there you're talking about what... next August if he stays healthy for 500ish PAs? Alcantara is at 349 so give or take another month. Granted, they will likely be in no rush to call him up given they have no clue where to play him at that point. But, if a Castro trade materializes it's not like he's unready.

You could be right, but they could also play the super 2 card on him and make him wait til may 2016 like they might be doing with baez and bryant

 

[SilenceS]

Theo's contract is coming up in two years. He has to produce some sort of winner soon. He is banking on these prospects to come through. You got to think he is going to give them more than one season to show he is on the right track.

 

[beckdawg]

You could be right, but they could also play the super 2 card on him and make him wait til may 2016 like they might be doing with baez and bryant

Like I said, there's no real rush persay but if the situation arises....

Also here's a gut wrenching question. If Shark and Hammel are worth the #5 overall prospect on a midseason lists, a former top 100 pitcher in Straily(think he was #73) and a player in McKinney who might be fringe top 100 this coming year then what the hell is Price worth? You got to believe a top 5 prospect or equivalent value and probably a top 50 guy.

 

[beckdawg]

Theo's contract is coming up in two years. He has to produce some sort of winner soon. He is banking on these prospects to come through. You got to think he is going to give them more than one season to show he is on the right track.

I doubt he's on the hot seat. They knew what they were doing when they slashed payroll and Theo reacted accordingly. You judge success based on what the goals were. The goals thus far have been to acquire as much talent as possible while clearing the books of older pricey players. Viewed in that light you have to say it's been a success. We'll see where they end up this year record wise but if it's better than 66 wins they've done that all while getting better. Perhaps not to the extent people want but it is an improvement.

 

[SilenceS]

I doubt he's on the hot seat. They knew what they were doing when they slashed payroll and Theo reacted accordingly. You judge success based on what the goals were. The goals thus far have been to acquire as much talent as possible while clearing the books of older pricey players. Viewed in that light you have to say it's been a success. We'll see where they end up this year record wise but if it's better than 66 wins they've done that all while getting better. Perhaps not to the extent people want but it is an improvement.

If the Cubs lose close to a 100 games through his whole contract. Someone has to get fired no matter how great the farm is.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Theo's contract is coming up in two years. He has to produce some sort of winner soon. He is banking on these prospects to come through. You got to think he is going to give them more than one season to show he is on the right track.

I don't agree with this. As long as that team is profitable for the ownership and Theo can show how much positive change they have made with the budgets the ownership have given them, he will be re-signed.

 

[chibears55]

Like I said, there's no real rush persay but if the situation arises....

Also here's a gut wrenching question. If Shark and Hammel are worth the #5 overall prospect on a midseason lists, a former top 100 pitcher in Straily(think he was #73) and a player in McKinney who might be fringe top 100 this coming year then what the hell is Price worth? You got to believe a top 5 prospect or equivalent value and probably a top 50 guy.

David price may be had for castro and 1 top player or as you mentioned 2 top 50 players...

 

[beckdawg]

If the Cubs lose close to a 100 games through his whole contract. Someone has to get fired no matter how great the farm is.

Why? Again, ownership knew or at least should the chances of being a competitive team in that environment is nearly impossible. It's about reaching benchmarks on a path to hopeful success. Baez the best prospect in the system when he was hired is yet to reach the majors and conceivably could wait til midseason before seeing him which means that roughly 70% of his time here will have been without the prospects they have been working to build.

 

[SilenceS]

Why? Again, ownership knew or at least should the chances of being a competitive team in that environment is nearly impossible. It's about reaching benchmarks on a path to hopeful success. Baez the best prospect in the system when he was hired is yet to reach the majors and conceivably could wait til midseason before seeing him which means that roughly 70% of his time here will have been without the prospects they have been working to build.

Because he is in a major city that wants a winner. He was signed for 25 million dollars. He brought in all his boys and you have to understand the majority of fans arent on message board talking about prospects and no nothing more than the major league team. The Cubs lose close to a 100 for 5 years straight they are going to call for someones head. You cant fire the owner, so someone has to take the fall. That would be Theo or Jed or both.

Now, there is plenty of time for them to give Chicago hope before they contract runs out but they still have a ton of work to do. Yes, they made themselves unbelievably strong with hitters. They still have to get themselves a starting staff and not just a starting staff that can get you by with a .500ish record. He needs a rotation that can win in the playoffs. That is the goal. That is what Theo promised he would do in Chicago. Thats what fans expect.

 

[chibears55]

Because he is in a major city that wants a winner. He was signed for 25 million dollars. He brought in all his boys and you have to understand the majority of fans arent on message board talking about prospects and no nothing more than the major league team. The Cubs lose close to a 100 for 5 years straight they are going to call for someones head. You cant fire the owner, so someone has to take the fall. That would be Theo or Jed or both.

Now, there is plenty of time for them to give Chicago hope before they contract runs out but they still have a ton of work to do. Yes, they made themselves unbelievably strong with hitters. They still have to get themselves a starting staff and not just a starting staff that can get you by with a .500ish record. He needs a rotation that can win in the playoffs. That is the goal. That is what Theo promised he would do in Chicago. Thats what fans expect.

You can't blame him for losing 100 the first 2 years, there was no way they were going to win when payroll dropped 40 mil and he had to field a roster with mostly back ups.
This year even with the lost of samardzija and hammel I think they probably end up with 90-95 losses unless castrom rizzo, arrieta, wood, bullpen completely goes south in 2nd half.

Now if your talking these next 2 years, then I somewhat agree with you especially if he starts putting his prospects on the roster and starts fielding a team that their not looking to trade away players at deadline but possibly add to it..
But if theres no significant improvement on roster and with wins the next 2 years and their still losing 90-100 games, yes I think ricketts needs to consider wheather or not in bringing theo and or jed back

 

[brett05]

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/national-league-central/chicago-cubs/
Note though that they have Jackson incorrect on here because he was given an $8 signing bonus the first year of the deal making the remaining years $11 mil. They've averaged his deal over the length of the contract.

Your 2013 figures aren't accurate.

Between, Castro, Jackson, Rizzo, Soler, buyouts of Veras and Fujikawa, Conception, and Sweeney they have ~$30 mil committed toward 2015. If you figure arbitration on Castillo, Arrieta and Wood you're probably taking upwards of $15 mil. As for the rest of the arbitration eligible players many are non-tender/trade candidates. You still will need to replace them on the 40 man roster however and they are likely around $15 mil. That gets you to the $60 mil I mentioned.

As for what they spent in 2012/13, the numbers are laid out right there in the link. My math is right.

Additionally, in reference to Tanaka, the cubs reportedly offered him a 6 year $120 mil deal plus the $20 mil posting fee. They could pay the fee over multiple years or all at once but if you assume 6 years $140 that's $23.33 mil. They gave Hammel $6 mil. $23.33 - $6 mil = $17.33. $17.33 + $ 92,677,368 = $110 mil. 2013 was $106,837,810. 2012 was $109,316,000

Since when is minor leaguers and trades part of a teans salary for a year. You've been hoodwinked

 

[brett05]

Yes well two guys at 29 and 30 isn't worth number 5. The drop off in value is pretty steep after you move out of the elite prospects as this article shows. I agree that top 5 prospects are different and derive their value differently. But seriously what is the flaw with Addison Russell? What is there to not be freaking ecstatic about having Addison Russell in the Cubs farm system? .

Ill take 29 30 pitcher over a surplus at ss all the time

I don't think russell is all that. Admit I can be wrong but to me he's one if the weakest top five specs as I see it.

Pitching trumps hitting by quite a lot

 

[beckdawg]

Because he is in a major city that wants a winner. He was signed for 25 million dollars. He brought in all his boys and you have to understand the majority of fans arent on message board talking about prospects and no nothing more than the major league team. The Cubs lose close to a 100 for 5 years straight they are going to call for someones head. You cant fire the owner, so someone has to take the fall. That would be Theo or Jed or both.

Now, there is plenty of time for them to give Chicago hope before they contract runs out but they still have a ton of work to do. Yes, they made themselves unbelievably strong with hitters. They still have to get themselves a starting staff and not just a starting staff that can get you by with a .500ish record. He needs a rotation that can win in the playoffs. That is the goal. That is what Theo promised he would do in Chicago. Thats what fans expect.

You're talking fan expectations. Fans arguably should be restless. However, we're talking ownership. Unless they are just utterly gutless and scapegoat him there's no way I see them making the move. They've added next to no revenue to his payroll as far as we know and 2015 will be the first year he's totally free of large contracts. Put it this way, is the Astros GM on the hot seat this year? Because they were roughly a year ahead of the cubs in rebuild and have had similar problems. And we're basically talking about giving him two years two win or else in which his first 3 years he spent more time sheading payroll likely at the owners pushing than he did adding to the team.

Like I said, if fans are pissed about the length of the rebuild I think that's fine. But ownership should understand that given 2 of the 3 years they've been in they have ate a giant contract(Zambrano Soriano) that was close to 20% of their total budget and it was the right move in both cases but that doesn't exactly get you to more wins. Like I said, as an owner you should be judging on benchmarks. In terms of the way they've rid themselves of contract by in large I think you'd have to suggest it's been a positive. That's taken 3 years and I don't see any way they could have done that faster. As far as rebuilding the system in that time I don't see anyway that be viewed as anything but a resounding success. So, if you're talking about the owners expectations of what should be done by this point I think they would have to view what Theo has done as a success.

From there, you're talking about now building towards a real competitive team. But realistically 2 years is hardly anything in terms of doing that. Now, if they go out and lose 100+ games the next two years maybe you start to have that discussion. But if they win 75 games the next two years I don't see anyways you can have that conversation because you're talking about 2016 MAYBE having Almora who was your first draft pick and maybe having your first full year with the elite guys in AAA.

 

[brett05]

David price may be had for castro and 1 top player or as you mentioned 2 top 50 players...

Gulp gulp

 

[beckdawg]

Since when is minor leaguers and trades part of a teans salary for a year. You've been hoodwinked

Since always. Anyone on the 40 man roster has a major league salary. Additionally, anyone who was signed to a major league salary when signed has one which is the case for Soler and Conception(was DFA'd but still gets his money). As for trades, whenever you talking about "cash" in a trade where do you think that money comes from? It's generally not $14 mil like Soriano's trade but it happens all the time. MLB contracts are full guaranteed and the only way to move certain players because you pay part of their salary that way to trade them.

I could literally go into a 10 page discussion on this if you really care but how about you just trust me here? Additionally, that's not like bob's personal website. The site I linked to is affiliated with baseball prospectus which is one of the premier scouting sites. Their numbers are generally very accurate.

 

[dabynsky]

Ill take 29 30 pitcher over a surplus at ss all the time

I don't think russell is all that. Admit I can be wrong but to me he's one if the weakest top five specs as I see it.

Pitching trumps hitting by quite a lot

Look there is no way we are going to agree on this because you fail to recognize the shift going on in the game. It is fair easier to find guys that can handle innings and the Cubs have shown the ability to piece together a starting staff. I don't see what flaws are in Russell's game. If you care to elaborate I would love to hear what problems there are with his game that results him in being a weak top 5 prospect. The only thing you have given is that he is surplus but surplus talent is never a bad thing.