Jim Hendry Fired As GM Of The Cubs

[poodski]

I love it co. Still on the offense!!

Keep it up!!

 

[Captain Obvious]

dont care about relative values with "constants" in them..fact is harden was a walking injury and when he pitched he was good..but besides that...it was a short term investment that only gave spotty value

hendry has been on the team for years...he is the one arguably in charge of making the moves, signing guys,etc.

he may not be the MAIN culprit..but you damn sure cant say he had no part in some of the issues this team has now(overpayed aging veterans and what not)

Spotty Value? He was pretty much healthy with us for the most part. I believe he only had 1 DL stint. Plus, look at what we gave up. We gave up what amounted to less than nothing.

Did I say that Hendry had no part in these issues? I'm asking, not being a smart ass.

disagree...either way...

we could always trade for a pitcher...or the bigger thing is there are a handful of pitchers on there that would solidify a rotation spot...maybe not a 1 or 2 spot but back of the rotation

Do you really want to make our farm system take another step back? I don't.

 

[poodski]

Awwwwwwwwwwww

Yeah.

 

[DewsSox79]

You are wasting your time. It's about time to cue jntg with one of his little metrics mocking anyone who believes in sabermetrics.

I do applaud you for keeping at it. You made it longer than me.

So just look at WAR? Forget the 100 variables that go into evaluating a trade, just go by WAR. sounds good!

Salary... we gave up what amounted to nothing in exchange for a pitcher who got us 4 WAR in his time here. We paid him about 5 million dollars. That is certainly a good trade.

Sure, he got injured, but he still managed 4 WAR, which takes into account IP. No, it's not off the charts, but we gave up nothing. Therefore, it's a pretty great trade.

Look at the whole picture, when he was healthy, he was awesome. I really don't see how this isn't a great trade.

alot of players are awesome when they are healthy.

alot of trades look good when players are healthy.

He wasnt healthy, wasnt reliable. end of story.

 

[2SeamHeat]

Spotty Value? He was pretty much healthy with us for the most part. I believe he only had 1 DL stint.

Problem here, Harden was not placed into a regular rotation pattern with the Cubs due to the belief that if he pitched once every 5 days, his arm would fall off. He pitched fewer games than he should have while healthy due to this. He pitched 12 games in 2008, in the same period that Dempster pitched 16... Lilly 17.

Then he spent a month on the DL in 2009, and wasn't even close to the guy he was in 2008.

 

[poodski]

So just look at WAR? Forget the 100 variables that go into evaluating a trade, just go by WAR. sounds good!



alot of players are awesome when they are healthy.

alot of trades look good when players are healthy.

He wasnt healthy, wasnt reliable. end of story.

Then evaluate it for him. Bring something back.

Rather than attacking the stat bring a different counterpoint.

Show us SOMETHING disagreeing with it.

 

[DewsSox79]

Spotty Value? He was pretty much healthy with us for the most part. I believe he only had 1 DL stint. Plus, look at what we gave up. We gave up what amounted to less than nothing.

Did I say that Hendry had no part in these issues? I'm asking, not being a smart ass.



Do you really want to make our farm system take another step back? I don't.

in the 1st season combined oak/chc- 148 innings
in the 1st full season with chc-141 innings

oh, and he had a combined WAR of 4.

 

[DewsSox79]

Problem here, Harden was not placed into a regular rotation pattern with the Cubs due to the belief that if he pitched once every 5 days, his arm would fall off. He pitched fewer games than he should have while healthy due to this. He pitched 12 games in 2008, in the same period that Dempster pitched 16... Lilly 17.

Then he spent a month on the DL in 2009, and wasn't even close to the guy he was in 2008.

:clap:

not worth a debate really, as you can see some of the fans here are aplogists and big time cubs homers.

oh, CO, how did you come up with the 4 wins for day games? you know the advantage the cubs have?

 

[Captain Obvious]

So just look at WAR? Forget the 100 variables that go into evaluating a trade, just go by WAR. sounds good!



alot of players are awesome when they are healthy.

alot of trades look good when players are healthy.

He wasnt healthy, wasnt reliable. end of story.

HE WAS ON THE DL ONE TIME. One time. I'm sorry, but if that isn't good enough for you, then I don't know what is. He made 26 starts that year. That's pretty good. Plus, you are not acknowledging that we GAVE UP NOTHING. NOTHING AT ALL. Aren't you the one who said you can't use one thing to gauge a trade? So stop looking at one DL-stint.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Problem here, Harden was not placed into a regular rotation pattern with the Cubs due to the belief that if he pitched once every 5 days, his arm would fall off. He pitched fewer games than he should have while healthy due to this. He pitched 12 games in 2008, in the same period that Dempster pitched 16... Lilly 17.

Then he spent a month on the DL in 2009, and wasn't even close to the guy he was in 2008.

I agree that he was much better in 2008, but again, look at what we gave up for him. This is really not that hard. So what if he got 4 or 5 less starts? Would you rather he end up on the DL? God Forbid the Cubs do something right.

 

[DewsSox79]

HE WAS ON THE DL ONE TIME. One time. I'm sorry, but if that isn't good enough for you, then I don't know what is. He made 26 starts that year. That's pretty good. Plus, you are not acknowledging that we GAVE UP NOTHING. NOTHING AT ALL. Aren't you the one who said you can't use one thing to gauge a trade? So stop looking at one DL-stint.

Didnt they have a "full season pitch count" for Mr Reliable?

Again I want an ansewer to the 4 win advantage by day games, please post the formula here.

 

[poodski]

:clap:

not worth a debate really, as you can see some of the fans here are aplogists and big time cubs homers.

oh, CO, how did you come up with the 4 wins for day games? you know the advantage the cubs have?

Use stats that correlate better!!!!!

Oh.

Wait.

You didn't bring anything to the table again.

Thus ends today's lesson on why discussing cubs baseball on this forum is useless.

Either the other person just attacks the stat rather than the concept or they are a sox fan who just trolls and calls you a homer or apologist depending on how you are arguing that particular day.

 

[poodski]

I agree that he was much better in 2008, but again, look at what we gave up for him. This is really not that hard. So what if he got 4 or 5 less starts? Would you rather he end up on the DL? God Forbid the Cubs do something right.

Speaking of God forbidding the Cubs from ever doing something right. Ha wait to be honest they have never made an error!!

Anyhow back to what I was saying you read the obstructed view article today? Very interesting article on how the cubs might have made a smart move and actually seen something others didn't.

Pretty good read.

 

[Captain Obvious]

in the 1st season combined oak/chc- 148 innings
in the 1st full season with chc-141 innings

oh, and he had a combined WAR of 4.

No, he had 4 WAR in his time with the Cubs. 141+71= 212. Nice effort, though. I know how hard it to type in Fangraphs.com, Rich Harden, then click View Partial Seasons. It's tough, but you tried and that's all that matters.

:clap:

not worth a debate really, as you can see some of the fans here are aplogists and big time cubs homers.

oh, CO, how did you come up with the 4 wins for day games? you know the advantage the cubs have?

Gosh, the guy who gets on me for derailing threads is.... derailing a thread. Classy.

I said no more than 4 games in either direction, aka minimal effect. If a manager has no more than 5 games, then I see that the day/night has no more than 4.

 

[DewsSox79]

Use stats that correlate better!!!!!

Oh.

Wait.

You didn't bring anything to the table again.

Thus ends today's lesson on why discussing cubs baseball on this forum is useless.

Either the other person just attacks the stat rather than the concept or they are a sox fan who just trolls and calls you a homer or apologist depending on how you are arguing that particular day.

Well everything is based on WAR right? I mean the most subjective metric that exists....That is a fact. Bringing stuff to the table? you gave up garbage for garbage. Did Hendry get fleeced? no. Was it a good trade? no. again garbage for garbage.

Is there a trade or a FA signing that hendry did besides milton bradley that you didnt like? Is there anything at all that the cubs do that you disagree with? please ansewer this.

 

[DewsSox79]

No, he had 4 WAR in his time with the Cubs. 141+71= 212. Nice effort, though. I know how hard it to type in Fangraphs.com, Rich Harden, then click View Partial Seasons. It's tough, but you tried and that's all that matters.



Gosh, the guy who gets on me for derailing threads is.... derailing a thread. Classy.

I said no more than 4 games in either direction, aka minimal effect. If a manager has no more than 5 games, then I see that the day/night has no more than 4.

Thats what I said you fucking idiot.

bold 2- again, how do you come up with that number? I will make it bold for you. How did you come up with 4 game advantage/disadvantage for day games?

 

[Captain Obvious]

Didnt they have a "full season pitch count" for Mr Reliable?

Again I want an ansewer to the 4 win advantage by day games, please post the formula here.

I don't know, did they have a full season pitch count for him? You're the one bringing these things up, I would think that you can do the research on them. So what if they did? You are continually ignoring the fact that the Cubs gave up NOTHING for him. What do you have to say about that?

 

[DewsSox79]

I don't know, did they have a full season pitch count for him? You're the one bringing these things up, I would think that you can do the research on them. So what if they did? You are continually ignoring the fact that the Cubs gave up NOTHING for him. What do you have to say about that?[/QUOTE]

Garbage for Garbage

Derailing threads, this is the Jim Hendry thread right? thats what I thought...I mean didnt he make the move for Harden? Yep....so not derailed.

 

[2SeamHeat]

I agree that he was much better in 2008, but again, look at what we gave up for him. This is really not that hard. So what if he got 4 or 5 less starts? Would you rather he end up on the DL? God Forbid the Cubs do something right.

Well, I'm not one saying that Harden was a bad deal. I was actually very excited about it when it went down. The Brewers picking up Sabathia was dangerous, and we didn't have anyone near that caliber until Harden was picked up.

However, to rank the deal as something great, as you tried to do with the WAR rating is reaching a bit. I think it was a good trade overall, not great. Had Harden pitched a full score of games in the 2nd half of 2008 and come back in 2009 as strong... it would have been up there with Hundley for Grudz/Karros and Hill/Hernandez for Lofton/ARam.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Well everything is based on WAR right? I mean the most subjective metric that exists....That is a fact. Bringing stuff to the table? you gave up garbage for garbage. Did Hendry get fleeced? no. Was it a good trade? no. again garbage for garbage.

Is there a trade or a FA signing that hendry did besides milton bradley that you didnt like? Is there anything at all that the cubs do that you disagree with? please ansewer this.

We got garbage? Yeah, Rich Harden was terrible for us. 4 WAR in 212 IP. That really sucks.

[/B]

Thats what I said you fucking idiot.

bold 2- again, how do you come up with that number? I will make it bold for you. How did you come up with 4 game advantage/disadvantage for day games?

I'm the fucking idiot? You're the one who posted 171 and 141. I'm sorry, but that's not how many innings he pitched with the Cubs.

I JUST TOLD YOU HOW I GOT THAT NUMBER. I believe that Po is the one who brought up that managers don't really effect teams and that it's no more than 5 games in either direction. I don't believe that the day/night has as much effect as a manager. Therefore, 4 < 5. Do I need to go through that with you a 3rd time?