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Wasn't Taj a -13 last night?
Wasn't Taj a -13 last night?
Rackshaq
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Wasn't Taj a -13 last night? ????Not sure what that means. What i do know is they need to give Taj the ball in the post like the ball ende up in Noah's hands. Gasol and taj are interchangeable in the high post and post area. Of coarse Gasol is a more consistant shooter but taj is capable.
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MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
Taj Gibson, PF 28 3-5 0-0 2-4 2 3 5 1 0 0 0 1 -13 8
Joakim Noah, C 29 0-4 0-0 0-2 3 6 9 4 0 2 4 3 +13 0
Thats why i don't go by plus/minus. Noah had 4 turnovers and 0 points. Taj had 0 turnovers and 8 points. Now who is playing with the starters? if they give him the ball in the post those points will go up. Noah will get more assist thats his entire game. No hate on that. And yes he got 4 more rebounds. Both need 2 be better. lol zero turnovers equal -13 compared to 4 turnovers equal +13. Makes no sense. Barkley was right.
Taj Gibson, PF 28 3-5 0-0 2-4 2 3 5 1 0 0 0 1 -13 8
Joakim Noah, C 29 0-4 0-0 0-2 3 6 9 4 0 2 4 3 +13 0
Thats why i don't go by plus/minus. Noah had 4 turnovers and 0 points. Taj had 0 turnovers and 8 points. Now who is playing with the starters? if they give him the ball in the post those points will go up. Noah will get more assist thats his entire game. No hate on that. And yes he got 4 more rebounds. Both need 2 be better. lol zero turnovers equal -13 compared to 4 turnovers equal +13. Makes no sense. Barkley was right.
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Bulletproof logic. Oh wait
Sounds like we have another one of those guys who only shows up to ***** when it's agenda related. :yawn:
Sounds like we have another one of those guys who only shows up to ***** when it's agenda related. :yawn:
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Ok...so someone doesn't understand how +/- works.
When Taj was on the floor the Bulls scored 13 less points than the Cavs did; therefore his combined contribution to offense and defense was negative. The other two true bigs on the other hand were +13 (Noah) and +17 (Pau). Easy enough?
When Taj was on the floor the Bulls scored 13 less points than the Cavs did; therefore his combined contribution to offense and defense was negative. The other two true bigs on the other hand were +13 (Noah) and +17 (Pau). Easy enough?
Rackshaq
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U know what, my mistake Joakim Noah GREATEST POWERFOWARD TO EVER TOUCH A BALL. Can't contain my excitement of watching him play. Gotta learn those incredible big man moves. And his guard play and court vision, watch out Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Jason Kidd. Go bulls.
Axl Rose
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+/- is a garbage stat...its a team/lineup based stat not a player based stat
remember when Kirk was -9 in like a minute of play? well that wasn't his all fault it was that crappy lineup thibs had in that lost a 8 point lead
if you would have had put that same Kirk in a productive lineup he would have been a plus even tough he didn't do jack...thats how +/- works
so its not a good barometer to judge a player and his impact..they could have very well done good IN SPITE of that player being on the floor
remember when Kirk was -9 in like a minute of play? well that wasn't his all fault it was that crappy lineup thibs had in that lost a 8 point lead
if you would have had put that same Kirk in a productive lineup he would have been a plus even tough he didn't do jack...thats how +/- works
so its not a good barometer to judge a player and his impact..they could have very well done good IN SPITE of that player being on the floor
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I disagree. +/- isn't the end all stat, No such thing. And It's not a good stat. But it's still a useful stat when applied correctly. In this case, Taj and Noah had a lot of minutes with starters. Anyone that watched the game saw that. Taj had enough minutes with good players AND(the big and that seems to be overlooked here) played against more Cleveland reserves than Noah. So really, even though the +/- wasn't my point(my point was based on gameplay), it wasn't that far off for telling the story in this game. The fact is, the team played better with Noah. And seems yet again, the only ones that want to disagree, are people who put the vast majority of their stock into a player's scoring while ignoring intangibles, defense, and other lines of production/strategies to use that player otherwise.
Axl Rose
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nah i think its YOU thats not putting ENOUGH stock in scoring
Noah is a down right liability on offense...he can't hit jumpshots, he can't freethrows, he can't even hit layups....you can't ignore that and the negative impact it has...but blame other ppl for ignoring stuff
Bulls shot great in game 1...but since we aren't the Warriors those shots aren't gonna fall for us every night and this is when Noah's lack of offense is gonna rear its ugly head
the other team will be allowed to cheat off of him and do what the hell they want on d because hes a non factor
the name of the game is basketball.....you put the ball in the basket.....you think those intangibles are THAT impactful to the point we should handicap ourself on offense? really think about it
based on what ive seen from Noah this year my answer to that is no
Noah is a down right liability on offense...he can't hit jumpshots, he can't freethrows, he can't even hit layups....you can't ignore that and the negative impact it has...but blame other ppl for ignoring stuff
Bulls shot great in game 1...but since we aren't the Warriors those shots aren't gonna fall for us every night and this is when Noah's lack of offense is gonna rear its ugly head
the other team will be allowed to cheat off of him and do what the hell they want on d because hes a non factor
the name of the game is basketball.....you put the ball in the basket.....you think those intangibles are THAT impactful to the point we should handicap ourself on offense? really think about it
based on what ive seen from Noah this year my answer to that is no
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I am a huge Thibs fan and love that they won the first game, but I hated the match-ups that Thibs had out there. No way that Butler can continue to take that kind of pounding and still be a scoring threat and Hinrich in the back court makes me want to puke.
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glad youre not our coach
Axl Rose
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well whatever but Jo is just not the same Jo anymore...hes not that same impact player we are used to
last year he was damn near a legit MVP candidate...he wasn't shit scoring then either but he was quite better than he is now, he also made a difference being able to run the offense and defensively he was DPOY
this year his scoring is flat out detrimental
as bad as you want to argue that because his assist are the same and turnover are down that hes actually having the same or better impact on the running the offense...its simply not true based on the eye test
and hes not a DPOY anymore....as clone put it hes a shell of himself
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I never once said he was the same Jo. I simply said that he is still a valuable piece to what we are trying to accomplish....if you disagree you can, but know youre siding against most, if not all nba coaches and gm's, since they would take noah on their teams in a hearbeat. damn spoiled ass bulls fans
Axl Rose
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im not saying you did im just saying that he isn't and has regressed to a point where quite frankly i believe hes hurting more than helping
if they could sucker a team into taking Noah while sending something back of value i'd jump on that in a heartbeat...but i think you're wrong....i don't think there would be any interest in Noah after the year hes had
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he will be an expiring contract, teams would have interest in acquiring him and playing out the final year and either he is still a solid player and they re sign him cheaper or they just let him walk if he doesn't have anything left. but you wont be getting much in return outside of cap relief....so why not if youre the bulls, just keep him and let him play out the final year for CHICAGO and make a determination after next season? makes a lot of sense IMO
Axl Rose
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im fine with letting Noah ride out his contract in a Bulls uni but i'd let him walk after that
even if he bounced back from this knee injury and looked like old Jo next year...hes at that age where players like him decline quickly and i wouldn't invest long term
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Helps more than hurts. And he helped more than Taj(who actually did hurt).
It's pretty straightforward.
It's pretty straightforward.
Axl Rose
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even if you're right...you're talking one game...a game where the Bulls shot uncharacteristically well
i laid it pretty straightforward that when we aren't shooting that well you'll see the real negative impact he has on offense....theres evidence out there that supports my side of the argument
go check how good he was for us in the bucks series
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Yes, I'm talking about this game. When was that point not clear from any of the statements that I made?
Let's try without making everything such a polarizing argument, and be rational. k?
This whole, bite your tongue until a player you dislike has a bad game mentality. It's Special person. The saying, have your cake and eat it too, do you know what that even means? A player is not going to be the best every single year, with RARE exceptions to the case, and those guys make it into the hall of fame on first ballot.
Let's try without making everything such a polarizing argument, and be rational. k?
This whole, bite your tongue until a player you dislike has a bad game mentality. It's Special person. The saying, have your cake and eat it too, do you know what that even means? A player is not going to be the best every single year, with RARE exceptions to the case, and those guys make it into the hall of fame on first ballot.