Mike Singletary

[Spunky Porkstacker]

I was 24 in 1985. I rate them this way:

Dent
Singletary
Hampton
Marshall
Fencik

Stupid ass Todd Bell and Al Harris. Man did they fuck up by playing hard ball and sitting out that season. Dave Duerson did a nice job replacing Harris and we were stacked at LB anyway so Harris was not missed.
Wilson

Hampton before Dent .

 

[FirstTimer]

Beat me to the point I was going to make. It's an impossible thing to quantify, of course, but Singletary fulfilled all of the cliches of "QB of the defense" and "like another coach on the field" etc. It would've been interesting to see how that defense performed without him running the show in the middle, but that's something we'll never really know because he lasted longer in Chicago than just about everyone from that defense. I don't think he was an incredible athlete like Wilber Marshall was, but he was still a force in the run game in the middle of that defense. And I don't think you have to be a freak athlete to be a HOFer. The way he owned the mental side of the game was impressive. And probably HOF-worthy alone. May not have had to make as many plays because of all the studs around him, but he could certainly make them.

And the one play that sums up Singletary, for me, is the stuff of Eric Dickerson on a third-and-one in the '85 NFCCG. The brains to know where the ball was going to be, and the physical ability to shut down a HOF running back in the hole. At 1:50 of this link:

[video=youtube;IeMO2Zg0Jg4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeMO2Zg0Jg4[/video]

It's a bit nebulous and tough to quantify but Singletary, IMO, was one of, if not THE best run-fit linebackers in NFL history.

 

[Washington]

Hampton before Dent .

Not in my world, hence my rating. Dent was a sack machine and had to be accounted for with double teams. He was truly special. I loved watching Danimal too but I will always give the nod to Dent albeit there is not much separation in the two.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Too funny, so was I. So wonder you're a big Doors fan. Probably in my top 3

I like The Doors and I am 32. Good music doesn't age.

 

[Omeletpants]

I had forgotten about this, but Todd Bell actually returned to the Bears after the 1985 season. I thought he had left and gone to Philly with Buddy Ryan in 1986. Needless to say, the alleged best player on the 1984 defense couldn't regain his starting job from Dave Duerson and was a backup in 1986 (perhaps explaining why I had forgotten about him). When Fencik was at the end of his career in 1987, the Bears moved Duerson to FS and Bell got his old SS job back for one year, and in 1988 Bell was on Buddy's Eagles. What I do remember is Bell's coverage skills had deteriorated to a point where Buddy actually converted Bell to OLB...which is kind of remarkable even back then...a 6-0 ft 200 lb OLB. Bell was the worst player on the defense, and in 1989 he was shifted back to SS for a few games before his NFL career ended.

Buddy Ryan's impact on Todd Bell's NFL career is interesting. First, a guy who was undersized even for a SS and had no coverage skills like Todd Bell had no business even playing in the NFL. Buddy Ryan used Todd Bell like he did Doug Plank (another undersized, no coverage skills player) and Bell had a nice 1984 season. So in some sense, Ryan "made" Todd Bell into an NFL player. The problem was that Ryan was ALWAYS anti-management, and he supported Todd Bell's ill-conceived holdout in 1985, going so far to call Bell the Bears 1984 defensive MVP (which only the most limited of intellect took at face value). Ryan said it was fine if Bell missed the 1985 training camp, and guaranteed Bell a starting spot as long as he reported for Week 1 of the regular season. Things didn't play out that way, though.

When Buddy Ryan went to the Eagles, he tried to acquire Todd Bell from the Bears, but only offered a 6th round pick, which was laughable for a player that Ryan had claimed was the MVP of an all-time great defense. After Bell proved ineffective in 1987 while starting for the Bears, the team tried to trade him but found no takers. The Bears then placed him on waivers, but even then no team wanted to pick up his contract (not even Buddy Ryan). Eventually, the Eagles signed Bell to a bargain contract, and he ended his career there.

So Buddy Ryan created Todd Bell, and in a way, also derailed Todd Bell's career.

Players peak at various times in their career. In 1984 Bell was the best player on the Bear's defense. Don't agree, then argue with Buddy Ryan cause that's what he said

 

[didshereallysaythat]

All heavy metal for me Luke. I was at Disco Demo night at Comiskey in 1979.

Did you catch Metallica with Lady Gaga? I hate her music like I hate hot dog shit in a dish washer. But she actually is a big heavy metal fan so i do give her credit there.

 

[FirstTimer]

Players peak at various times in their career. In 1984 Bell was the best player on the Bear's defense. Don't agree, then argue with Buddy Ryan cause that's what he said

....

....Buddy Ryan's impact on Todd Bell's NFL career is interesting. First, a guy who was undersized even for a SS and had no coverage skills like Todd Bell had no business even playing in the NFL. Buddy Ryan used Todd Bell like he did Doug Plank (another undersized, no coverage skills player) and Bell had a nice 1984 season. So in some sense, Ryan "made" Todd Bell into an NFL player. The problem was that Ryan was ALWAYS anti-management, and he supported Todd Bell's ill-conceived holdout in 1985, going so far to call Bell the Bears 1984 defensive MVP (which only the most limited of intellect took at face value). ....

 

[Washington]

Did you catch Metallica with Lady Gaga? I hate her music like I hate hot dog shit in a dish washer. But she actually is a big heavy metal fan so i do give her credit there.

I did not catch that. I never heard of anything related to Lady Gaga until the SB.

I am also not a modern day heavy metal guy. I tolerate a little Metallica. I am a 60s, 70s, and 80s heavy metal guy. Sabbath is still my all time favorite and will always be. My Boxer is named Dio in memory of Ronnie James Dio who I think was the best heavy metal singer of all-time. I loved him with Rainbow and when he was with Sabbath when Ozzy went solo. Put me down for bands like Cream (Clapton solo too), Rainbow, Deep Purple, The Who, Stones, Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Scorpions, Foghat, Triumph, Doors, Sabbath, Blue Oyster Cult, etc. I am not a fan of most of the late 80s and 90s bands, although some are OK. I despise all music from 2000 onward.

 

[FirstTimer]

He's dead

Bell or Buddy?

 

[didshereallysaythat]

I did not catch that. I never heard of anything related to Lady Gaga until the SB.

I am also not a modern day heavy metal guy. I tolerate a little Metallica. I am a 60s, 70s, and 80s heavy metal guy. Sabbath is still my all time favorite and will always be. My Boxer is named Dio in memory of Ronnie James Dio who I think was the best heavy metal singer of all-time. I loved him with Rainbow and when he was with Sabbath when Ozzy went solo. Put me down for bands like Cream (Clapton solo too), Rainbow, Deep Purple, The Who, Stones, Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Scorpions, Foghat, Triumph, Doors, Sabbath, Blue Oyster Cult, etc. I am not a fan of most of the late 80s and 90s bands, although some are OK. I despise all music from 2000 onward.

Big Ozzy fan myself. I play guitar although nothing great and I am trying to convince myself to buy a Zakk Wylde Gibson guitar for my birthday.

 

[Luke]

I did not catch that. I never heard of anything related to Lady Gaga until the SB.

I am also not a modern day heavy metal guy. I tolerate a little Metallica. I am a 60s, 70s, and 80s heavy metal guy. Sabbath is still my all time favorite and will always be. My Boxer is named Dio in memory of Ronnie James Dio who I think was the best heavy metal singer of all-time. I loved him with Rainbow and when he was with Sabbath when Ozzy went solo. Put me down for bands like Cream (Clapton solo too), Rainbow, Deep Purple, The Who, Stones, Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Scorpions, Foghat, Triumph, Doors, Sabbath, Blue Oyster Cult, etc. I am not a fan of most of the late 80s and 90s bands, although some are OK. I despise all music from 2000 onward.

Too funny, spot on with my taste and thinking. I would add UFO and maybe some early Rush, Ted others I cant think of at the moment and then VH and G&R later on. It was all about great lead guitar jams for me which also carried over to southern rockers like Skynyrd and the Outlaws.

 

[Omeletpants]

He's dead

Thanks Sherlock

 

[FirstTimer]

Thanks Sherlock

He's dead too.

 

[Washington]

Too funny, spot on with my taste and thinking. I would add UFO and maybe some early Rush, Ted others I cant think of at the moment and then VH and G&R later on. It was all about great lead guitar jams for me which also carried over to southern rockers like Skynyrd and the Outlaws.

Spot on with those bands too. My list was partial. I could stretch it out to a 100 or more easily. I like how you said early Rush. 2112 is an all-time favorite. I even would put some Styx in there with Grand Illusion (and they are a Chicago band). I would have G&R in that list too. I saw VH at Alpine many years ago. Speaking of southern rockers, I saw Charlie Daniels at one of the first Chicago-type fests. I'm going to admit this in public - I saw Neil Diamond 3 times. Yes, I do have a soft side.

I was at the Black (Sabbath) and Blue (Oyster Cult) concert in 1980 (could have been 81) in Milwaukee when Geezer Butler was hit in the head with a bottle during their 2nd song and cancelled the show. Fucking cheeseheads. Almost riot type conditions outside the auditorium after that.

 

[Luke]

Spot on with those bands too. My list was partial. I could stretch it out to a 100 or more easily. I like how you said early Rush. 2112 is an all-time favorite. I even would put some Styx in there with Grand Illusion (and they are a Chicago band). I would have G&R in that list too. I saw VH at Alpine many years ago. Speaking of southern rockers, I saw Charlie Daniels at one of the first Chicago-type fests. I'm going to admit this in public - I saw Neil Diamond 3 times. Yes, I do have a soft side.

I was at the Black (Sabbath) and Blue (Oyster Cult) concert in 1980 (could have been 81) in Milwaukee when Geezer Butler was hit in the head with a bottle during their 2nd song and cancelled the show. Fucking cheeseheads. Almost riot type conditions outside the auditorium after that.

yeah, too many to think of really. VH was the last concert I saw about 5 years ago at the Allstate and they only played the early DLR songs. Saw tons of bands at Alpine, Poplar Creek, Aragon, Ampitheater, the old stadium. You can also catch some decent cover bands locally like Kashmir, saw a good southern rock band last summer who played green grass and high tides. Oh, speaking of VH and not Sammy, Montrose was also real good.

 

[Washington]

Besides Dent being a sack machine, far exceeding what Hampton did, Dent used to also drop into coverage. He had 8 INTs in his career. I'm not sure Hampton had any but I'm probably wrong there. I think Dent far exceeded Hampton in forced fumbles too. To me, Dent was at a higher level of elite and always had to be accounted for and was more important the D than Hampton.

 

[Omeletpants]

Besides Dent being a sack machine, far exceeding what Hampton did, Dent used to also drop into coverage. He had 8 INTs in his career. I'm not sure Hampton had any but I'm probably wrong there. I think Dent far exceeded Hampton in forced fumbles too. To me, Dent was at a higher level of elite and always had to be accounted for and was more important the D than Hampton.

Hampton always had to be accounted for more than Dent which is why Ryan moved him inside to pressure middle.Hampton was aslo an All-Pro at DE earlier in his career and NFL DPOY.

Dent was a one trick pony who was soft against the run. This is why is nickname was "Colonel" after the KFC commercial (Does ONE thing right) given to him by his teammates. I dont beleive any analyst at the time would have rated Dent over Hampton

 

[bearmick]

Hampton was the best player on that defense, imo. His penetration was key to the success of the 46 defense.

 

[baredown]

Hampton was the best player on that defense, imo. His penetration was key to the success of the 46 defense.

Agreed. The 46 was predicated on forcing OL guys to be individually isolated on one of the DL guys. Each would be covered with a DL guy, except for the RT (or LT), who was in the unenviable spot of having both Marshall & Wilson lined up across from him. That in itself shouldn't have been a huge deal, but there simply weren't any interior OL guys who could handle Hampton alone. The result was constant inside pressure, which as everyone hopefully knows, is the hardest thing for offenses to deal with. Dent was a great player, and belongs in the HoF, but Hampton's ability to generate inside pressure was the foundation of that defense.

 

[FirstTimer]

Agreed. The 46 was predicated on forcing OL guys to be individually isolated on one of the DL guys. Each would be covered with a DL guy, except for the RT (or LT), who was in the unenviable spot of having both Marshall & Wilson lined up across from him. That in itself shouldn't have been a huge deal, but there simply weren't any interior OL guys who could handle Hampton alone. The result was constant inside pressure, which as everyone hopefully knows, is the hardest thing for offenses to deal with. Dent was a great player, and belongs in the HoF, but Hampton's ability to generate inside pressure was the foundation of that defense.

..and honestly...regardless of scheme I'd start my DL with a guy like Hampton over Dent. IMO Hampton was an elite level DT and DE. He could impact and dominate a game from both positions. Dent, while I think calling him a one trick pony is a bit severe, was not the all around force Hampton was.