Monta Ellis is not worth Deng or Noah

[Lex L.]

Alonzo Mourning definitely got better with age. And I remember when Arvydas Sabonis left Russia to play for Portland, the announcers would always say "Where did this new Sabonis come from? He looks like a spry teenager out there. When he was in Russia, he was just a slow, plodding guy who couldn't dunk".

Are you sure you're not confusing this with the Seinfeld episode where Kramer insisted on wearing jeans that were too small after proclaiming, "I got the body of a.. taught, pre-teen, Swedish boy."?

 

[FirstTimer]

Alonzo Mourning definitely got better with age.

Not sure if srs.

 

[Lex L.]

Are you sure you're not confusing "taught" with "taut"?

I pasted it.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

The Bulls would be fine. They were top 3 in the league in rebounding before they added Boozer.

Stop throwing out nonsense just to represent Dookies.

lol what the **** does this have to do with me being a duke fan..stop grasping at straws

i know boozer is crap right now...but barganni is overrated and you dont really gain that much in a straight on trade

 

[FirstTimer]

lol what the **** does this have to do with me being a duke fan..stop grasping at straws

i know boozer is crap right now...but barganni is overrated and you dont really gain that much in a straight on trade

I'd rather have Bargs than Boozer. Easily.

Just sayin'

 

[Lex L.]

lol what the **** does this have to do with me being a duke fan..stop grasping at straws

i know boozer is crap right now...but barganni is overrated and you dont really gain that much in a straight on trade

Grasping at straws. LOL. You wish. I've already told you why I would prefer Bargani.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I'd rather have Bargs than Boozer. Easily.

Just sayin'

he's not really that much better though, if at all

D and rebounding are pretty bad...his PPG is inflated because he's on a crappy team

i doubt this trade would ever happen anyway

 

[FirstTimer]

he's not really that much better though, if at all

Disagree.

Plus he's younger, more tools. And even when some of those physical toosl go he still has elite size at the position. We've already seen Boozer's physical tools begin to erode..and he's undersized a bit to begin with height wise...it's going to get ugly.



If I'm getting Bargs I'm not so worried about rebounding or defense and frankly I think Boozer's rebounding numbers are severely overrated and will only get worse over time as he declines, plus he's shitastic on defense anyways.

I'll trade a declining 30 year old PF for a 26 or 27 year old athletic 7 footer any day.

 

[Lex L.]

he's not really that much better though, if at all

D and rebounding are pretty bad...his PPG is inflated because he's on a crappy team

i doubt this trade would ever happen anyway

He spaces the floor better and doesnt clog the middle like Boozer does. Besides, a lot of Boozers rebounds come as a result of letting his guy get past him and then cleaning up when Noah/Asik/Deng have to contend his mans shot. Once Boozer's crap defense ties up someone else with what should have been his man, he is then freed up to get the rebound on the shot his teammate was forced to contest.

Boozer is also too limited with his height. Remember when he had turf toe and everyone speculated that he lost lift on his jump because of that? Well he still looks the same, more or less.

I think Bargnani can hit shots away from the basket in more ways and is also better at slashing to the basket, which is a better compliment to Noah who is one of the better passing Cs in the league. By keeping congestion out of the lane, it opens up space for Deng, Rose, Noah, and Brewer, all of which are good slashers but run into congestion because Boozer's style of play is one of constantly backing his guy down.

Also, Bargnani is younger and cheaper.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Here's my actual thoughts, that aren't snipped Foxnews-style:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RamiTheBullsFan
Joakim Noah has plenty of raw offensive talent that is highly chaotic/non-disciplined. It would take a lot of dedication but Noah could develop a low-post offensive game. He has all of the length and athleticism of a dominant scoring big man.

He is one of the most overrated players in the game today but being overrated in itself doesn't mean you aren't very good. The Bulls defense relies a lot on Noah being on the team. There is a reason the Bulls were a better defensive and rebounding team than Miami last year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamiTheBullsFan
Hakeem can teach him better form on his jump shot and how to get a fade off at will. He can teach Noah how to use his feet better instead of being completely out of control. Noah is a very raw offensive talent. But he DOES have talent. It's time to develop him the way he should be.

No one is going to claim Noah is going to become as coordinated and good as Olajuwon but he can definitely improve.

Why not develop Noah's post-up game? It makes Boozer that much more expendable.
Nowhere did I say Noah could become a dominant low-post scorer; I said that he has some features that all dominant low-post players possess. I merely stated the obvious - that he could develop a low-post game and have that apart of his arsenal.

Nowhere did I say Noah could become a dominant low-post scorer; I said that he has some features that all dominant low-post players possess. I merely stated the obvious - that he could develop a low-post game and have that apart of his arsenal.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

He spaces the floor better and doesnt clog the middle like Boozer does. Besides, a lot of Boozers rebounds come as a result of letting his guy get past him and then cleaning up when Noah/Asik/Deng have to contend his mans shot. Once Boozer's crap defense ties up someone else with what should have been his man, he is then freed up to get the rebound on the shot his teammate was forced to contest.

Boozer is also too limited with his height. Remember when he had turf toe and everyone speculated that he lost lift on his jump because of that? Well he still looks the same, more or less.

I think Bargnani can hit shots away from the basket in more ways and is also better at slashing to the basket, which is a better compliment to Noah who is one of the better passing Cs in the league. By keeping congestion which are good slashers but run into congestion because Boozer's style of play is one of constantly backing his guy down.

Also, Bargnani is younger and cheaper.

lol boozer isnt always congesting the lane...he uses his face up-mid range game quite a bit...he congests the lane when he uses his inside game and/or cleaning up

bargnani doesnt have much of a slashing/inside/clean up game...at this point he's really a euro center....he's one of the worst in the NBA at getting offensive rebounds...he spaces the floor and can make the shot...but he's not really good inside...he doesnt utilize his height at all either...

atleast the good thing is you move noah to PF..but bargnani doesnt have enough strength to defend centers well..and cant defend power forwards well either..its not effort..he just doesnt have the tools for it

i think there are positives in bargnani's game but he lacks some dimensions....i guess straight up for boozer its not a bad trade...but i dont like bargnani's game

 

[FirstTimer]

Here's my actual thoughts, that aren't snipped Foxnews-style:

.

Noah can become a very good offensive player and maybe even close to a great one and there is no doubt about that.

What a moron.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Disagree.

Plus he's younger, more tools. And even when some of those physical toosl go he still has elite size at the position. We've already seen Boozer's physical tools begin to erode..and he's undersized a bit to begin with height wise...it's going to get ugly.



If I'm getting Bargs I'm not so worried about rebounding or defense and frankly I think Boozer's rebounding numbers are severely overrated and will only get worse over time as he declines, plus he's shitastic on defense anyways.

I'll trade a declining 30 year old PF for a 26 or 27 year old athletic 7 footer any day.

bargnani is athletic? not really...

bargnani doesnt utilize his height at all..doesnt play like he's a 7 footer...doesnt defend like a 7 footer with tools...and doesnt rebound like one

his offensive numbers are inflated because he is the focal point of the offense....

that said now that i think about it..i would make the trade....but i just dont like bargnani's game

 

[Lex L.]

lol boozer isnt always congesting the lane...he uses his face up-mid range game quite a bit...he congests the lane when he uses his inside game and/or cleaning up

bargnani doesnt have much of a slashing/inside/clean up game...at this point he's really a euro center....he's one of the worst in the NBA at getting offensive rebounds...he spaces the floor and can make the shot...but he's not really good inside...he doesnt utilize his height at all either...

atleast the good thing is you move noah to PF..but bargnani doesnt have enough strength to defend centers well..and cant defend power forwards well either..its not effort..he just doesnt have the tools for it

i think there are positives in bargnani's game but he lacks some dimensions....i guess straight up for boozer its not a bad trade...but i dont like bargnani's game

No. Bargani would be the PF. Noah would still be the C.

I also look at it like this. Boozer is almost so inconsequential on the defensive end, that I feel that if you at least give someone else a shot, they might be able to be coached into playing some degree of defense. If Boozer has been playing under Thibs this long and he's still this bad, there's little hope he'll be better. And what sucks is, a lot of it's a lack of effort. It's like Boozer is trying to save himself for the offensive end except he's not really consistently good enough offensively to justify his lack of effort on defense. And not to mention, his style of play on offense doesn't really complement the offense as a whole.

 

[FirstTimer]

bargnani is athletic?

Compared to other centers/pf hybrids. Yes.

Compared to Boozer.

Dug.

bargnani doesnt utilize his height at all

Missed the point.

Try again.

 

[Lex L.]

bargnani is athletic? not really...

bargnani doesnt utilize his height at all..doesnt play like he's a 7 footer...doesnt defend like a 7 footer with tools...and doesnt rebound like one

his offensive numbers are inflated because he is the focal point of the offense....

that said now that i think about it..i would make the trade....but i just dont like bargnani's game

But he is forced to take more contested shots as a result of being the focal point of an offense on a bad team. In theory, he'd have more open shots playing on the Bulls. And PF is probably a more natural position for him.

Bargnani would be like a poor man's Dirk. He'd help against zones with his shot making and he'd also drag other PFs away from the basket in man.

 

[Axl Rose]

ellis aint worth a rose before hoes shirt

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

No. Bargani would be the PF. Noah would still be the C.

ok..you're probably right here...actually this may work better...bargnani would work better defending PFs(though this means little)

I also look at it like this. Boozer is almost so inconsequential on the defensive end, that I feel that if you at least give someone else a shot, they might be able to be coached into playing some degree of defense. If Boozer has been playing under Thibs this long and he's still this bad, there's little hope he'll be better. And what sucks is, a lot of it's a lack of effort. It's like Boozer is trying to save himself for the offensive end except he's not really consistently good enough offensively to justify his lack of effort on defense. And not to mention, his style of play on offense doesn't really complement the offense as a whole.

bargnani is not good at defense not because of lack of effort..but lack of defensive tools...idk if you can teach him lateral quickness...i guess you could teach him to utilize his height and defend more like a 7 footer...

he is also a bit inefficient because he little post/clean up game...though he is averaging 55% this year...its a small sample size though...you wonder if he could keep this up

now that i think about this a little more...i suppose it isnt a bad trade...but i still dont know how much you are actually gaining...your D wont get better..you lose significant rebounding...bargnani has a better outside game for sure and stretches the D..but that's his only real strong dimension...

he's coordinated..but not laterally quick

 

[Axl Rose]

ellis aint worth a rose before hoes shirt

neither is Bargs bum ass

 

[FirstTimer]

now that i think about this a little more...i suppose it isnt a bad trade...but i still dont know how much you are actually gaining

According to Rami's "analysis" centers peak around 30 on offense. We'd be getting a center in hi sprime heading towards his peak for a PF who can't jump.

:yeah: