R K
Guest
I remember about 5 people posting the entire blog on the officials, only to have each removed immediately.
Klem posted it at least three times!
Klem posted it at least three times!
brewbaker12
New member
- Joined:
- Oct 28, 2010
- Posts:
- 1
- Liked Posts:
- 0
Here it is:
Late Monday night sources told me the Blackhawks had fired Dale Tallon as GM and replaced him with Assistant GM Stan Bowman. With Rick Dudley already gone to Atlanta this off-season, it means that the Blackhawks have turned over virtually their entire front office since John McDonough came in as president, with Bowman being the lone exception.
First, some thoughts about Bowman. Stan is a very sharp guy. Though his background is the financial side, rather than the player/scouting side, he's been around hockey all his life. (He was named after the Stanley Cup for Pete's sake!) He's been involved in the decisions about on-ice personnel since I've been around the team. With Stan, the club is in good hands going forward.
But how Stan ascends to the general manager's position, and how it became available in the first place, betrays big political maneuverings in the front office. Those kinds of things are never healthy -- not when those conflicts are ongoing, and in the end they aren't healthy for those who survive the conflict. These kinds of manifestations of petty jealousies are worrisome for a franchise that has had so much going in the right direction.
To the outside world, it appears that the Hawks fired Dale Tallon because he cost them money when the organization bungled the distribution of the RFA offers two weeks ago. But it likely isn't so. First of all, the agents and players I talked to disputed the notion that the Hawks lost money in the mistake. Every one of them doubted that the players would have automatically become Unrestricted Free Agents even if the Players' Association won their grievance, which was a questionable proposition. Second, it isn't clear that Tallon was the one who made the mistakes, even though he took the blame for it last week. There's even a published report from Sunday's Boston Globe by the esteemed veteran hockey writer Kevin Paul Dupont that cites a source saying that Tallon wasn't to blame for the RFA mistakes, but that McDonough himself had a hand in delaying the contracts.
So there are clearly two stories here. The first claims Tallon made the mistakes. That story leaked to TSN at night on July 3rd, three days after the contracts were late. The question is why then? And who released it? I raised those questions at the time, and in my last blog you'll note that one of the possibilities I suggested was that "It could be someone within the organization who has his eyes on the GM job, or who wants someone different in the GM job. All I can say here is that I hope not. But I think it's a plausible scenario." With the clarity of a little time and a few more developments, it looks to me like this is the scenario that allowed the contract snafu to reach the public.
The second story is the one that reached the Boston Globe, and in retrospect it looks like the defense put out by Tallon's supporters. Why, then, did Tallon himself accept the responsibility? In part he did it because Tallon plays by old school rules of war and hockey and other sports -- the man in charge takes the bullet because ultimately all the responsibilities are his responsibilities. And in part he did it because he knew that once that RFA story hit the streets, he was a goner.
We may never know the truth of what happened in regards to the RFA story. I highly doubt John McDonough had anything to do with delaying the contracts himself. For one, it's bad public relations, and McDonough doesn't stand for that. For another, McDonough is about mending fences not creating rifts. For a third, I think such a move would be beneath him. Let's not forget, it was McDonough who made sure the team went to Dale's father's funeral as a team after a game in Toronto. John doesn't fight dirty in his own house.
But could someone else have intentionally held up those contracts, knowing it would make Dale look bad and cause the kind of negative publicity that McDonough detests? Last blog I said that though I hoped not, it was plausible, and I think so again here (Though for the record, I'm not referring to Stan Bowman. This isn't how he operates. Nor am I trying to out the person here. It really isn't relevant to the larger point).
And so I think this points to the real reason Dale was let go. There was a deep divide in the front office about many things. Certain player signings. Certain contract agreements. Direction about styles of play and which players fit those styles of play. During the playoffs, there were even some front office people who weren't thrilled to see the Hawks advance as far as they did because that made it tougher to move Dale out.
Dale was not a perfect GM, but I liked him. Perhaps there were some contract negotiations that could have gone better. Perhaps there are managers with more natural intellectual talents. But Tallon certainly knew hockey up and down. He made more good trades than bad trades. He signed and drafted more good players than bad ones (though by less of a margin than his trading record). And he was a great guy to deal with -- courteous to the media, gracious in returning phone calls and texts, and lightning quick with a one-liner.
But I liked him most because he loved his team -- the organization as well as the individual players -- with every ounce of his being. He churned as much about winning and losing when the team had a 66 point season, as he did when they were three wins away from the Stanley Cup Finals. There's something to be said about having a guy at the top of the organization who allows his passion to burn so visibly rather than keeping it close to his vest.
We'll find out over the coming months if the Hawks actually improved on Monday night. It's very possible they did. But the days of innocence and wonder are over. The Hawks paid a price in blood and soul. They have to win, then hope the price they paid to do so was worth it.
-X-
- Joined:
- May 12, 2010
- Posts:
- 48,108
- Liked Posts:
- 26,618
IHN Shutdown in 5....4....3...2....
R K
Guest
I heard a much different story about the team in Toronto for Dale's Fathers funeral than that one. From a couple of different places.
supraman
New member
- Joined:
- May 16, 2010
- Posts:
- 8,024
- Liked Posts:
- 196
- Location:
- St.Pete, FL
So see I don't follow baseball and haven't lived in Chicago for 14 years so no everyone doesn't know. Thanks for playing
Drdudz
New member
- Joined:
- May 24, 2010
- Posts:
- 27
- Liked Posts:
- 0
That article by Mora seems to excuse both McDouche and Stan. So he's gotta think it's someone else responsible. Rocky, Scotty, or player to be named later?
R K
Guest
Old news not worth rehashing. We'll just say it was NOT Mcdonough's suggestion and he just happened to be on the trip up North for the game.
R K
Guest
In Josh's opinion. And that's what makes them not renewing his contract bullshit. Josh himself in the article/blog questions the reality that it actually happened that way.
I still firmly believe JM was personally responsible for the offers not getting where they had to be. For some reason he needed to validate what he was going to do either way. Firing a GM who just got the youngest team in the NHL 7 wins away from the Stanley Cup usually doesn't go over too well with Fans.
- Joined:
- May 15, 2010
- Posts:
- 5,024
- Liked Posts:
- 0
R K
Guest
nana
New member
- Joined:
- May 15, 2010
- Posts:
- 662
- Liked Posts:
- 0
- Joined:
- May 14, 2010
- Posts:
- 17,847
- Liked Posts:
- 2,551
Variable
New member
- Joined:
- Jul 24, 2010
- Posts:
- 3,023
- Liked Posts:
- 122
Yeah well here's the thing man (and no offense intended or anything), you keep giving these jabs at newer fans not giving a shit and about them being morons, and here I am, admittedly a newer fan, trying to get the information, trying to ask and see what really happened and you seem to have at least some of the answers and I'm just asking for them. That's all. I just want to be more informed. It may be old news to you, but it's not to me and not to a lot of people that may want to know. I just now was actually able to read the blog post that Mora put up a year ago that looks like was the cause of him being let go and all of it is extremely interesting to me and kind of disappointing at the same time and I'd really like to know as much as I can. Like I said, it seems like some of the people here have some of the answers or insight into it, but it's like....I don't know...you guys writing a book or something because any inquiry into it always seems to be met with cryptic half answers. I'm just a fan, I'm not looking to expose anything or do anything, I just would like to know what kind of organization I'm giving my money to.
R K
Guest
First I didn't say all new fans. So let's get that out of the way. 2nd there are a couple of different stories on what transpired up to and during the Funeral for Dale Tallon's father.
The "team" chose to go there and pay their respects to Dale and his Father. Not Mcdonough. He just happened to be on the trip. Just the same as when they won the Cup, the "Team" chose to invite Tallon back to Chicago and privately had a drink with him and the Cup. Mcdonough no where involved.
Trust me if there is something you want to know and I have an answer, I don't hold back.
E Runs
New member
- Joined:
- May 15, 2010
- Posts:
- 658
- Liked Posts:
- 0
A lot of people, (most of us here, myself included) get caught up on the Hawks stuff because it's "juicy" but it's just the catalyst for Josh's broader story; the story of a reporter doing what he was told to do, dong what he thought was right, and then being left hanging in the wind. A story that should concern all of us who look to the media to deliver forthright news and opinions no matter what the topic.
R K
Guest
Exactly.
Josh is not perfect but I would take his reporting of this hockey club over ANYTHING spewed by Foley and or Eddie. If I have to hear Foley let us know ONE MORE TIME how fortunate to see HOME GAMES on TV, I'm going to puke on him. We get it Pat. You didn't like that they were going to simulcast you. You didn't like the fact that they were angry on how critical you were at times over the organization, similar to Josh. But it was Josh getting not renewed verses YOU walking away. The Hawks did not Fire Pat. It was Pat's decision.
I haven't missed a home game in years so I could really give a shit if they are on TV. All I cared about were the road games I could not get too, and yes, those were televised. Bad policy drawing new fans, maybe with a winning product sure.
I once had a conversation with someone who STILL works for the Organization on Pat and how I liked listening to him. This person did NOT think he was a very nice guy and NOT broken up he and the Hawks parted ways. Well the minute he was brought back the new mentality was that the original conversation NEVER happened and he was the best thing since baked bread.
Either you agree with the decisions made, not show any disagreement what so ever, or you get your walking papers. That's how that works.
- Joined:
- May 15, 2010
- Posts:
- 991
- Liked Posts:
- 0
- Location:
- Not far from 127th and Archer
Perhaps these will help...
Hockey News from 7/31/2008
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articl...pect-Bowman-to-get-more-power-in-Chicago.html
It is well-known new Hawks president John McDonough is not a big fan of either Tallon or Savard and that McDonough was the driving force behind the signings of unrestricted free agents Cristobal Huet and Brian Campbell.
In fact, industry insiders maintain Tallon didn’t want to sign either player July 1, but McDonough insisted the Hawks sign them as both hockey and marketing moves.
The Atlanta Thrashers had the inside track on Campbell in the first hours of free agency. He was reportedly about to accept Atlanta’s offer when McDonough apparently ordered Tallon to improve the Chicago’s offer to Campbell, who ended up signing with the Blackhawks for $56.8 million over eight years.
It was much the same with Huet. The night before free agency opened, the Capitals thought they had a deal done with Huet for $15 million over three seasons. But again, apparently at McDonough’s insistence, the Hawks sweetened their offer, adding another year and $565,000 per season.
Boston Globe
http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/articles/2009/07/12/goal_to_make_it_to_broadway/?page=4
- Joined:
- May 14, 2010
- Posts:
- 5,014
- Liked Posts:
- 4
- Location:
- Plainfield, IL
All I know for sure with mcdonough is this:
For a couple years under the old mans regime, I had an avatar with him done up like osama bin laden, not a word was ever said to me about that. I put up an avatar of mcDoosh with a hitler stash I got the ban hammer without so much as an explanation.
So it tells me somebody doesn't really like criticism. (this was still before there were as many mods, it was still just BHM and KC, and KC didnt do it as he was the one that stealthily unbanned me and told me to keep a low profile).
Although they bannhammer the shit out of any negative team related threads (admittedly, they let a couple survive, I wont be unfair) yet, allow a thread thats like 13 pages long that essentially rips on IHN and its members, which has nothing to do with anything associated with that site.
For a couple years under the old mans regime, I had an avatar with him done up like osama bin laden, not a word was ever said to me about that. I put up an avatar of mcDoosh with a hitler stash I got the ban hammer without so much as an explanation.
So it tells me somebody doesn't really like criticism. (this was still before there were as many mods, it was still just BHM and KC, and KC didnt do it as he was the one that stealthily unbanned me and told me to keep a low profile).
Although they bannhammer the shit out of any negative team related threads (admittedly, they let a couple survive, I wont be unfair) yet, allow a thread thats like 13 pages long that essentially rips on IHN and its members, which has nothing to do with anything associated with that site.