Muhammad Ali passes away!

[Spunky Porkstacker]

Holmes beat him but someone who cared about Ali should have never let that fight happen. Ali was already showing signs of his affliction.

If I remember right Holmes didn't really want to fight Ali in that fight.

 

[remydat]

But he did say he didn't think people should race mix, I just saw that. Not about being safer as a race, he also made claim that people should be proud of their race and not mix.

The interviewer seemed somewhat offended by it.


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At one time, Ali like a lot of black men at the time was a part of the Nation of Islam which had views against interracial mixing and was a faction of Islam developed by African Americans that was quite hostile to people that were hostile to black people which obviously at the time was a decent portion of the white power structure.

However, that was like 40 years ago. Ali renounced the Nation of Islam long ago and became a member of Sufism which is part of Islam proper and a subsect within Sunni Islam. So he hasn't been a part of African-American inspired Islamic factions for decades.

Trying to bring this up now upon his death and decades after is like crying about Robert Bryd 50 years after he renounced his KKK affiliation. It's a topic that has long since been discussed and put to bed because people change with time.

"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life."

 

[remydat]

I mainly did not like the hot dogging and rope a dope bullshit, and there was a cruel edge to some of his antics. I dont respect that shit.

Rope a dope was a sound strategy at the time. I never liked his hot dogging either and found his treatment of Frazier in particular horrific. However, his positive impact overall overshadows his very visible flaws. That is what endeared Ali to so many. He was an incredibly flawed individual but he wasn't afraid to let everyone see those flaws and to move forward warts and all.

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

Rope a dope was a sound strategy at the time. I never liked his hot dogging either and found his treatment of Frazier in particular horrific. However, his positive impact overall overshadows his very visible flaws. That is what endeared Ali to so many. He was an incredibly flawed individual but he wasn't afraid to let everyone see those flaws and to move forward warts and all.

Didn't Ali seek out Frazier later in life to apologize to Joe?

 

[Monster]

Didn't Ali seek out Frazier later in life to apologize to Joe?

I believe they spoke, at least remember an interview.
I don't think Frazier let it go... Ali was rough on him.
Called him things like Uncle Tom and what not.

 

[Monster]

If I remember right Holmes didn't really want to fight Ali in that fight.

I seem to recall Larry looking at the ref like... you gonna stop this?
It was clear Larry didn't want to hurt him any more.
Been a long time... might be worth a you tube and a beer.
There is a stellar idea.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

If I remember right Holmes didn't really want to fight Ali in that fight.

You remember right. Holmes was Ali's sparring partner for several years and had strong liking for him. For Ali, the stuttered speech and shaking hand had already begun. Nobody close to Ali wanted him to fight but none could stop him from doing so. The money was still damn good. Holmes felt it was a no win situation for him. After the fight, Howard Cosell asked Holmes why he was crying. Holmes just said he respected Ali so much.

"I went to his room and I told him, 'I love you, man,'" Holmes said. "You're the greatest man ever. I said, 'I love you, man.' He said, 'If you loved me, why'd you beat me up like that?' I was laughing and crying at the same time."

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

I believe they spoke, at least remember an interview.
I don't think Frazier let it go... Ali was rough on him.
Called him things I won't repeat here.

Joe came from a very rough neighborhood, not very well spoken and Ali made fun of him. Sad, but Ali was about the show. Pretty sure that he did regret treating Joltin Joe the way he did and really did actually have a lot of respect for him.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Joe came from a very rough neighborhood, not very well spoken and Ali made fun of him. Sad, but Ali was about the show. Pretty sure that he did regret treating Joltin Joe the way he did and really did actually have a lot of respect for him.

Joe was one of those I mentioned before that Ali berated for being the "uncle Tom" type that kow-towed to the white boxing establishment. There was definitely a mutual respect that formed between the 2 though. That was evident here and there. Ali did attend Joe's private funeral.

 

[AussieBear]

i gotz respect for the champ, so no real hating. from the outside looking in, he seemed like a better person than boxer.... and he was a great boxer.... definitely 4 or 5 all time..

i gotz mud respect for those who had to deal wiff da racism too... ali... jackie robinson... bruce lee... genghis khan etc etc

 

[remydat]

Didn't Ali seek out Frazier later in life to apologize to Joe?

I believe they spoke, at least remember an interview.
I don't think Frazier let it go... Ali was rough on him.
Called him things like Uncle Tom and what not.

Well it went beyond that. Frazier had supported Ali when he was going through the fight regarding the draft, advocating for his reinstatement and even given him money. So the Uncle Tom and Gorilla shit hit Frazier hard because he thought Ali was his friend. You got the sense that Ali always viewed it as part of the game because after their final fight he said of Frazier,

Ali - " I'll tell the world right now, [Frazier] brings out the best in me. I'm gonna tell ya, that's one helluva man, and God bless him...He is the greatest fighter of all times, next to me."

Then in later years, they put it behind him.

Ali - "In a way, Joe's right. I said a lot of things in the heat of the moment that I shouldn't have said. Called him names I shouldn't have called him. I apologize for that. I'm sorry. It was all meant to promote the fight. "I like Joe Frazier, Me and him was a good show. It was a good traveling show."

Frazier - "I accept that," "I'll accept it, shake his hand and hug him when I see him. We're grown guys. Why we been biting off bullets? We have to embrace each other. It's time to talk and get together. Life's too short."

Frazier definitely didn't deserve the shit Ali gave him particularly when he went out of his way to support Ali. Frazier ultimately accepted his apology but some things are hard to forget and I think it still stung him deep and put a barrier between the two they couldn't fully close.

 

[Monster]

I miss those days. Everyone knew who the champ was and ABC sports fights were for everybody.
Saw an interview with Holmes saying his first year he fought six times under Don King and made 700 bucks.
Said he was paid more by Ali to spare.
Boxing was ruined...
Ask the next ten people you see who the champ is... They won't know what the **** you're talking about.

Shame...

Ali, Spinks, Frazier, Holmes, Foreman... Icons when I was a kid.

Tyson beating Holmes was the last great one I remember... But that was like Holmes Ali... Larry was done and getting the last payday.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

[video=youtube;jGB2AKQgPZE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGB2AKQgPZE[/video]

 

[number51]

I mainly did not like the hot dogging and rope a dope bullshit, and there was a cruel edge to some of his antics. I dont respect that shit.

Those are two different things.

Rope a dope was a legitimate boxing tactic that worked. He was the champ even if you didn't like his boxing style.

Hot dogging, I can see people being pissed about that. He was the first guy to talk shit, it freaked America out. Even today when it escalates some fans hate that shit. That's personal preference, I look at every strut, bold prediction, trash talk, chest thump, fist pump on an individual basis. I like it when Kane does the fist pump after a game winning goal, I hate Rogers discount double check after a TD against the Bears.

Ali may not have invented showmanship in sports, but he perfected the athlete as a showman. If you don't like that behavior, blame Ali. If you think sports are more interesting with the flash, thank Ali.

I thank Ali for making the world a more interesting place. RIP

 

[Monster]

Not sure how true it is but in the movie "Ali" he wanted Foreman to think he was crazy.
Everyone is afraid of a crazy man.
If you watch the start of the Ali Holmes fight I think he was doing same.
He just wasn't the same then... Late 30s and sick.
Just look back at how many time he fought total maulers for 15 rounds... tough as nails.
Would rest in the corner and take it.
The Foreman fight would get stopped in the 6th today... but was Ali's plan.
The Greatest... He made the sport.

PS: Howard C deserves some credit too... he and Ali made boxing a true event!

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Not sure how true it is but in the movie "Ali" he wanted Foreman to think he was crazy.
Everyone is afraid of a crazy man.
If you watch the start of the Ali Holmes fight I think he was doing same.
He just wasn't the same then... Late 30s and sick.
Just look back at how many time he fought total maulers for 15 rounds... tough as nails.
Would rest in the corner and take it.
The Foreman fight would get stopped in the 6th today... but was Ali's plan.
The Greatest... He made the sport.

PS: Howard C deserves some credit too... he and Ali made boxing a true event!

With the Foreman fight, Ali actually planned to wear him down from the beginning. He actually got the strategy from watching Big George knock Frazier down 6 times. Ali noted when George retreated to a neutral corner, he was leaning on the ropes. To Ali, that meant he had no stamina.

'Wait until he hears "round three… round four… round five…" Big George is gonna be out of gas and there are no gas stations out here!'

I read something a long time ago that said Ali then thought of the rope a dope when he noticed how loose the ropes were in the ring that night.

I actually liked Foreman a lot. Would root for him over anyone but Ali. 20 years after he lost to Ali, he would wear the same trunks he wore for that bout when he beat Moorer to win a championship at the ripe old age of 45.

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

George named all 12 of his sons George. LOL

 

[Warrior Spirit]

George named all 12 of his sons George. LOL

Had so many he wanted to make sure he didn't forget any of their names.

*5 sons doe. Rest were daughters

 

[ruprecht]

Those are two different things.

Rope a dope was a legitimate boxing tactic that worked. He was the champ even if you didn't like his boxing style.

Hot dogging, I can see people being pissed about that. He was the first guy to talk shit, it freaked America out. Even today when it escalates some fans hate that shit. That's personal preference, I look at every strut, bold prediction, trash talk, chest thump, fist pump on an individual basis. I like it when Kane does the fist pump after a game winning goal, I hate Rogers discount double check after a TD against the Bears.

Ali may not have invented showmanship in sports, but he perfected the athlete as a showman. If you don't like that behavior, blame Ali. If you think sports are more interesting with the flash, thank Ali.

I thank Ali for making the world a more interesting place. RIP

My opinion :shrug:

I more so hated the way he treated some people. RIP, but I dont have to be a fan.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

My opinion :shrug:

I more so hated the way he treated some people. RIP, but I dont have to be a fan.

Hated the way he treated who specifically?