MVP watch...face the facts gentlemen...

[Glide2keva]

You are pretty incredulous on your own facts, and not differentiating them with opinions to be criticizing anybody else's use of the word.

Repped

 

[Fredsmooth21]

I really don't like Bill Simmons, but I thought he summed it up best in his article today:

I still have him as the MVP. If you disagree, go look at the standings, try to find me 10 games in which Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah played together, then watch Keith Bogans play for 10 minutes. Derrick Rose did more for that team through the first 50 games than anyone else did for their team; doesn't make him the best player, just the most valuable.

 

[houheffna]

You are pretty incredulous on your own facts, and not differentiating them with opinions to be criticizing anybody else's use of the word.

Back then, the Heat were the Miami Cavaliers. They played the same style LeBron was used to in Cleveland but with much lesser shooters. It seemed like the Heat were frustrated and the Pacers played with more energy so they won. And they had something like an 18 point lead towards the end. Their record was about 8-7 back then. And that is a pretty good indicator that the gap between MIA and IND back then was much smaller than it is now.

As for LA-CLE, the Cavs just got Mo Williams back and Anthony Parker finally looks healthy. Kobe Bryant is struggling with chills and aches and the rest of them besides Gasol look out of sorts. That upset was not so crazy to me. Look at how they were destroyed by CHAR.

So you are saying earlier in the season, the Pacers were as good a basketball team as the Heat? GTFOH...

The only basketball truths I usually throw out there, are facts backed up by research of some kind to show how far off you are with your opinions.

That said, the Pacers came back from 24 down in the last game they played against a far superior team. They shouldn't have needed Lebron to win that game...but they did....and that is factually based. The statistics back that up. Not many upsets in the league are crazy. Rose had to bail the Bulls out in Cleveland himself, he also had to bail the Bulls out against teams like Detroit. THAT is part or what makes an MVP. During an 82 game schedule, the best team doesn't always win, let alone win easily. Had Lebron not been in that game, there is a good chance the Pacers would have beaten the Heat. A very good chance.

And the Lakers are better than the Cavs if Kobe announces his retirement prior to the game...so just saying one team is better than the other to discredit a player's performance makes no sense.

 

[houheffna]

I really don't like Bill Simmons, but I thought he summed it up best in his article today:

I like Simmons a lot when it comes to basketball...and I am glad the debate is being had and that Rose is a part of it. It is going to be a close decision...my only hope is that whoever deserves it based on what happens on the court gets the award. I don't want to see Lebron "punished" because of the decision over the summer. That would not be a good thing. The league punished Kobe much the same way. When stuff like that happens, you politicize the award based to much on moral character and not athletic achievement.

 

[pinkizdead]

I really don't like Bill Simmons, but I thought he summed it up best in his article today:

i was just going to post this article. it cracked me up. watch ten minutes of bogans.

 

[Steveo16220]

MVP = Most Valuable Player to your team. Valuable. Not the best player. With all the ridiculous help LBJ has, it's a stretch to put him in there. Especially after their amazing start to the season. If LBJ has an off night, MIA has fall back player...if D-Rose has an off night, the fall back player is....well, now, Boozer? Who has been absent the fist half the season? or Now Noah who has been absent the second half the season? Nope. D-Rose gets this team to 50 wins. LBJ, Wade get Miami to their 50 wins.

 

[houheffna]

MVP = Most Valuable Player to your team. Valuable. Not the best player. With all the ridiculous help LBJ has, it's a stretch to put him in there. Especially after their amazing start to the season. If LBJ has an off night, MIA has fall back player...if D-Rose has an off night, the fall back player is....well, now, Boozer? Who has been absent the fist half the season? or Now Noah who has been absent the second half the season? Nope. D-Rose gets this team to 50 wins. LBJ, Wade get Miami to their 50 wins.

The best player in the league has won the award many, many times. And a lot of those players had the best teams. Your definition is not the clear cut definition, which is why there is a debate. Jordan, Magic, Bird...11 MVPs...all played with hall of famers...so we will have to see how things go in the second half of the season...

 

[Glide2keva]

I like Simmons a lot when it comes to basketball...and I am glad the debate is being had and that Rose is a part of it. It is going to be a close decision...my only hope is that whoever deserves it based on what happens on the court gets the award. I don't want to see Lebron "punished" because of the decision over the summer. That would not be a good thing. The league punished Kobe much the same way. When stuff like that happens, you politicize the award based to much on moral character and not athletic achievement.

This is about the only thing in this entire thread that you've said that I agree with.

 

[Glide2keva]

The best player in the league has won the award many, many times. And a lot of those players had the best teams. Your definition is not the clear cut definition, which is why there is a debate. Jordan, Magic, Bird...11 MVPs...all played with hall of famers...so we will have to see how things go in the second half of the season...

But each of them won because they were deserving to win it. MJ lost awards when he clearly should've won it. (1997 Malone)

 

[houheffna]

But each of them won because they were deserving to win it. MJ lost awards when he clearly should've won it. (1997 Malone)

Who is deserving is a matter of opinion. Hall of fame players on the rosters of those former MVPs are facts.

 

[Glide2keva]

Who is deserving is a matter of opinion. Hall of fame players on the rosters of those former MVPs are facts.

And that means what?

Nothing.

It was about the value to those teams and each of those players were the engines that makes those go. lebron isn't as he shares those duties with Wade.

lebron can go out and they would still win games, Rose goes out and the Bulls suck. Rose's value is greater than lebron's. lebron might be the better player, but that doesn't make him the front-runner.

His team won 127 games the last two years and he was the main reason they won, that much is obvious and so he was rightfully deserving of the awards he got. This year is a totally different case. He is playing alongside a player that can equal his output and his impact on any given game. So to me, that takes him down a lot.

Rose has no such player, Boozer isn't a first option type player. Neither is Deng.

Now if you want to make a case for someone other than Rose, how about Dirk? His impact on his team is equal to Rose's impact on this Bulls team.

But of course, you're right and since lebron is the best player, he clearly deserves this award and no one has a chance.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Just for shits 'n giggles.

 

[houheffna]

And that means what?

Nothing.

It was about the value to those teams and each of those players were the engines that makes those go. lebron isn't as he shares those duties with Wade.

lebron can go out and they would still win games, Rose goes out and the Bulls suck. Rose's value is greater than lebron's. lebron might be the better player, but that doesn't make him the front-runner.

His team won 127 games the last two years and he was the main reason they won, that much is obvious and so he was rightfully deserving of the awards he got. This year is a totally different case. He is playing alongside a player that can equal his output and his impact on any given game. So to me, that takes him down a lot.

Rose has no such player, Boozer isn't a first option type player. Neither is Deng.

Now if you want to make a case for someone other than Rose, how about Dirk? His impact on his team is equal to Rose's impact on this Bulls team.

But of course, you're right and since lebron is the best player, he clearly deserves this award and no one has a chance.

Dude, don't come at me with this condescending childish ignorant bullshit...I brought up Dirk's name a long time ago and you dismissed him as well. Lebron is the main cog on that team...scoring is not the only attribute needed to win a game, and I never said that Rose wasn't deserving or didn't have a chance....GTFOH with that crap. The Heat would not be a contender without Lebron...simple as that.

What I said was MVPs have had great players on their teams before...and Lebron is definitely the engine that makes that team go. I explained my reasoning, and it has fluctuated throughout the season.

 

[Glide2keva]

Dude, don't come at me with this condescending childish ignorant bullshit...I brought up Dirk's name a long time ago and you dismissed him as well. Lebron is the main cog on that team...scoring is not the only attribute needed to win a game, and I never said that Rose wasn't deserving or didn't have a chance....GTFOH with that crap. The Heat would not be a contender without Lebron...simple as that.

What I said was MVPs have had great players on their teams before...and Lebron is definitely the engine that makes that team go. I explained my reasoning, and it has fluctuated throughout the season.

So you read that last sentence and went on that. What I sad was valid. And yes I dismissed Dirk early because I don't think he has a better case than Rose.

 

[Glide2keva]

Just for shits 'n giggles.

Owned!!!

 

[houheffna]

Owned!!!

What does that mean? You are a walkin' friggin peanut gallery...

 

[X]

Pretty sure the Spurs faced the facts tonight.

(mvp)

 

[houheffna]

Pretty sure the Spurs faced the facts tonight.

(mvp)

He had a great game on a big stage against one of the best teams, and his team won, that is important if he wants to win the award...

 

[Glide2keva]

What does that mean? You are a walkin' friggin peanut gallery...

Thanks, I try.

 

[Steveo16220]

Going to the OP's decision on LBJ.

I said my piece on how I feel about the award. It is what it is, debatable among sports fans.

With that said, even with LBJ performaces, what puts him head and shoulders above Rose? 3 more points a game? 2 more rebounds? His ability to get along with another MVP and future HOF'er in wade?

Without back-tracking, through 10 pages of arguments to find what the OP puts out as his reasoning, if it was even put out there, what puts LBJ ahead of the league, aside from: He is killing it? :thinking: