Niemis Arbitration

[LordKOTL]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

Something I read on the O-boards...so consider the source since it could be wrong...



Assume Huet is gone--he pretty much needs to be and if not, there are worse problems in the organization.



That means, for everyone we have signed, we have a shade over $7M for 5 players that need to make the roster minimum.



So, let's benchmark.



$2.5M for Niemi

$2.5M for Hammer



That leaves us $2M for 3 players. Of those, 2 would need to be in the lineup--both likley 4th line.



The question is, could we sign, say, Bickell, and 2 other guys (Hendry, maybe?) for less than $2M? Possible.



That's assuming $2.5M for both Hammer and Niemi. Hammer, I don't think he deserves Seabrook dollars, yet. Niemi, Arbitration can go either way, but my my count, we need a total of at least 1.5M free from signing both if we want to keep everyone we already have. That means the max conglomerate for both Niemi and Hammer is 2.75M each.



my $.02.

 

[Guest]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

Huet can go no where until around Sept when the Ice Hogs break Camp. The NHL has a 10% kicker right now until the day the NHL season starts.



So there is money for everything as long as they are under the 55.6 or what ever special "hawk cap". Those numbers could be pretty close but your first mistake was reading that board.



Chris over at the 300 level is probably the best option, but still there is part of an "assumption" in there as no one but the Hawks and NHL know exactly what the numbers are ATM.

 

[noon]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

It's actually more dire than that.

Without Huet, they have about $9.238M in space to sign Niemi, Hjammer, and another 7 or 8 players. Even if Niemi gets $3M, that only leaves $6.238 to sign Hjammer plus 7 or 8 players.

 

[E Runs]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="R K"]

There is no angst if he's a team player. And excuse me for not being the one where he was our Savior as I said this team would win no matter what goalie they had in there.



So, if he gets 4 mil, see ya and go to option B. Assuming they've thought of option B.



And I don't see what Wiz getting his ass kicked verses losing 250k has to do with the Salary he's making but what ever.[/quote]

Working backwards: Maybe I misinterpreted what you meant by the Wiz reference, if that's the case disregard. I took it as he'd rather get punced in the face than lose money.



What is option B?



Don't think I said you called him the savior. You would have been okay with Huet then, or Crawford? Do you still feel the same way? Looking forward do you feel the same knowing the bottom 2 lines will be completely different?

 

[E Runs]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="noon"]



Lalime just signed a 1-year deal with Buffalo, so he's gone. Turco would be interesting. Crawford hasn't been given much of a chance. Not ideal, but it may not be the end of the world. Glad we/they won the Cup this year, though![/quote]

**** yes, my man! **** yes! But now this is the price for having all that talen assembled on one team.



In my fantsay world Plan B has Huet going to the Island for Roloson as a stopgap. Turco would be intesesting but he could be an over 35 contract (if he signs after Aug 13) and I doubt he'd be willin to sign a 1 year deal.

 

[LordKOTL]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="R K"]Huet can go no where until around Sept when the Ice Hogs break Camp. The NHL has a 10% kicker right now until the day the NHL season starts.



So there is money for everything as long as they are under the 55.6 or what ever special "hawk cap". Those numbers could be pretty close but your first mistake was reading that board.



Chris over at the 300 level is probably the best option, but still there is part of an "assumption" in there as no one but the Hawks and NHL know exactly what the numbers are ATM.[/quote]

My assumption on my numbers was that the "kicker" was being taken up by Huet's cap hit in it's entirety. Thus, if we assume Huet will be dropped to Rockford/Europe, then as long as you don't count the kicker, it should almost even out.



Anyhow, yes, it's all speculation--I just think if Niemi & Hammer get about 2.5M, the situation is tight, but possible

 

[noon]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="E Runs"]

**** yes, my man! **** yes! But now this is the price for having all that talen assembled on one team.



In my fantsay world Plan B has Huet going to the Island for Roloson as a stopgap. Turco would be intesesting but he could be an over 35 contract (if he signs after Aug 13) and I doubt he'd be willin to sign a 1 year deal.[/quote]



Creative. Rolli is only on a 1-yr 2.5M and the Isles need to take on more payroll to make the minimum. Last I heard, Turco wasn't getting many queries, so he may be flexible and willing to go to the defending Cup champions for reasonable terms. 2-years may not be unreasonable. Interesting situation. Stan has his work cut out for him.

 

[Guest]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="LordKOTL"]

My assumption on my numbers was that the "kicker" was being taken up by Huet's cap hit in it's entirety. Thus, if we assume Huet will be dropped to Rockford/Europe, then as long as you don't count the kicker, it should almost even out.



Anyhow, yes, it's all speculation--I just think if Niemi & Hammer get about 2.5M, the situation is tight, but possible[/quote]



Kicker is roughly 10 mil. Moves the Cap from 59 to 69 mil roughly. They have money to do everything they need right now. With or without Huet counting.



Interesting question Eric. I said I thought Huet would have a role to play so yea, I guess I could have seen him filling in. Not that it's what I wanted but the team won the Cup, not the goalie by himself. Especially in two of the four series including the Championship/Finals.



I'm at the point now where Huet has to be gone because NO ONE from the organization down has any confidence in him. That in itself would make it harder on him alone, give away the rest of his short comings.



Wiz lost about 1/15th of his Salary was what I was referring to back then. Nothing to do with him being greedy. Would surprise most that I heard there were talks to get him back. Although with our Cap issues I don't see how it's possible.



Option B, I have no clue but if it were Crawford and Toivenen we are fucked.

 

[noon]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="LordKOTL"]Anyhow, yes, it's all speculation--I just think if Niemi & Hammer get about 2.5M, the situation is tight, but possible[/quote]



Without Huet, there is $9.238M available with 13 guys signed. Sign Niemi and Hammer for $2.5 ea and that leaves $4.238M in space with only 15 signed. I don't see how they fill out the roster under that scenario.

 

[IceHogsFan]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

I had read an interesting opinion elsewhere that said they wondered if

arbitration was not being pushed because Niemi would prefer to play in

the KHL like Nabby. I laughed at first but after the comments the last few

days I am beginning to wonder.



As RK stated, if Niemi walks we are totally screwed with Toivonen and Crawford

unless some other acquisition is made and from what I hear those options are

very limited at the moment.

 

[phranchk]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="R K"]



Kicker is roughly 10 mil. Moves the Cap from 59 to 69 mil roughly. They have money to do everything they need right now. With or without Huet counting.



Interesting question Eric. I said I thought Huet would have a role to play so yea, I guess I could have seen him filling in. Not that it's what I wanted but the team won the Cup, not the goalie by himself. Especially in two of the four series including the Championship/Finals.



I'm at the point now where Huet has to be gone because NO ONE from the organization down has any confidence in him. That in itself would make it harder on him alone, give away the rest of his short comings.



Wiz lost about 1/15th of his Salary was what I was referring to back then. Nothing to do with him being greedy. Would surprise most that I heard there were talks to get him back. Although with our Cap issues I don't see how it's possible.



Option B, I have no clue but if it were Crawford and Toivenen we are fucked.[/quote]

I think it's closer to 65 Million, not 69 million with the 10% cushion. That really shouldn't change much.

 

[Pez68]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="IceHogsFan"]I had read an interesting opinion elsewhere that said they wondered if

arbitration was not being pushed because Niemi would prefer to play in

the KHL like Nabby. I laughed at first but after the comments the last few

days I am beginning to wonder.



As RK stated, if Niemi walks we are totally screwed with Toivonen and Crawford

unless some other acquisition is made and from what I hear those options are

very limited at the moment.[/quote]



I don't see why we would be "totally screwed". This team is good enough to make the playoffs with those two goalies.... no question. Once the trade deadline rolls around, there will be quite a bit of goaltending help available, and we have the pieces to acquire that help. Kudos to the first person that tells me the last time Detroit spent even 5 mil per year on goaltenders. They've been JUST FINE over the last decade.

 

[Guest]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="phranchk"]

I think it's closer to 65 Million, not 69 million with the 10% cushion. That really shouldn't change much.[/quote]



The Cap is 59mil. The article I read and was posted here twice showed it at 69 mil. Our Cap is 55 mil so it would be 65 mil.



But for semantics make it what ever you want, the point is there is plenty of money to do what ever they want until opening day. Period.

 

[Guest]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="Pez68"]



I don't see why we would be "totally screwed". This team is good enough to make the playoffs with those two goalies.... no question. Once the trade deadline rolls around, there will be quite a bit of goaltending help available, and we have the pieces to acquire that help. Kudos to the first person that tells me the last time Detroit spent even 5 mil per year on goaltenders. They've been JUST FINE over the last decade.[/quote]



LOL and they've had some good goalies. Umm HASEK. Just because he didnt make a lot of money if you think Crawford, Toivenen or even Niemi are any where near Hasek then I don't know anything anymore.

 

[Larmer83]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="Pez68"]



I don't see why we would be "totally screwed". This team is good enough to make the playoffs with those two goalies.... no question. Once the trade deadline rolls around, there will be quite a bit of goaltending help available, and we have the pieces to acquire that help. Kudos to the first person that tells me the last time Detroit spent even 5 mil per year on goaltenders. They've been JUST FINE over the last decade.[/quote] Assuming the Hawks make the playoffs with those two, what goalie is available making less than 2 million to make a playoff run?



FORWARDS

Jonathan Toews ($6.300m) / Patrick Kane ($6.300m) / Marian Hossa ($5.275m)

Patrick Sharp ($3.900m) / Dave Bolland ($3.375m) / Tomas Kopecky ($1.200m)

Marty Reasoner ($1.150m) / Troy Brouwer ($1.025m) / * Jack Skille ($0.900m)

Viktor Stalberg ($0.850m) / * Bryan Bickell ($0.600m) / Jake Dowell ($0.525m)

DEFENSEMEN

Brian Campbell ($7.143m) / Duncan Keith ($5.538m)

Brent Seabrook ($3.500m) / * Niklas Hjalmarsson ($2.500m)

* Scrap Heap Dman ($0.900m) / * Jordan Hendry ($0.550m)

John Scott ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS

Corey Crawford ($0.800m) / * Hannu Toivonen ($0.700m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)

ROSTER: 21; CAP: $59.4m; CARRY-OVER PENALTY: $4.158m

PAYROLL: $57.702m; BONUSES: $0.065m; CAP ROOM: $1.763m

 

[5Minutes4Fighting]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

Jeez where do i begin.



First, this salary arbitration has Bill Zito written all over it. He is a true mother ******. I think Antti is kind of gullible to Zito's greedy bullshit and is being taken advantage of. There is a chance Antti is digging his own grave and has no idea he is doing it. Just my hunch.



Yes we can curse the Blues for giving Halak that contract, but Zito can also use as evidence the totally asinine contracts the Hawks gave Huet (for playing a good 10 games) and especially Khabby (for having one good playoff run and winning the Cup). Also, you can't use fucked-up contracts as a standard. If so Kane, Toews and Keith would be getting much more than Campbell. (Just think if those three had pulled this zito arbitration bullshit...)



With the bonuses and Soupy's contract hanging around (at least for now), I don't see how this team can pay a goalie more than about 2.5 mll at the very most. I doubt Niemi is going to get that 4 mill Zito is allegedly asking for. But if he does, I would dump him without thinking twice, and i bet the Hawks do.



Also, how in the **** can anybody be even thinking about Huet playing here next season? His cap hit is 5.6 mill people, that has not changed. Plus he totally sucks. wake up.



-5MInutes

 

[Guest]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

Pretty easy bet. And with Huet's Cap hit it's 99% guaranteed he'll be in the KHL via Rockford. Unless wearing an Islanders Jersey so they can hit the minimum. I was being more sarcastic there than anything. Maybe you should wake up or grasp perception.



Crawford-Toivenen if Niemi gets 4 mil. Good thing we won the Cup last year.



Unless Turco takes 2 mil to play with Crawford as back up.

 

[Maiden]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

It is appalling how many of you discount the value of Antti Niemi..................



as it says below, I CANT DO THIS ALL SUMMER!!!!!!

 

[DBQHawkFan]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

Maybe they should have kept Fallon. Not that he would have been ready, but people were saying good things about him.

 

[Pez68]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="Maiden"]It is appalling how many of you discount the value of Antti Niemi..................



as it says below, I CANT DO THIS ALL SUMMER!!!!!![/quote]



On this team, I put Niemi behind about 10 guys as far as importance and value to the team is concerned. Where do you have him ranked? He is certainly not worth losing a guy like Hammer, or Sharp....