Niemis Arbitration

[Guest]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="Maiden"]It is appalling how many of you discount the value of Antti Niemi..................



as it says below, I CANT DO THIS ALL SUMMER!!!!!![/quote]





I'm sorry I kind of have to laugh a little here. This coming from the guy that was pushing so hard for them to nab Turco at the Deadline he predicted it would happen several times.



Sorry I'm not discounting his value, while I realize he has just FIFTY-FOUR NHL games combined. Plus the playoffs.

 

[roshinaya]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="R K"]

Sorry I'm not discounting his value, while I realize he has just FIFTY-FOUR NHL games combined. Plus the playoffs.

[/quote]



I don't know where you got that figure from. He has a total of 42 regular season games + 22 playoff games, so SIXTY-FOUR games combined.

Anyways, I agree Niemi shouldn'tbe asking for too much with only that body of work. Sure he got the Cup, but that was more due to the excellent team in front than himself alone. If he prices himself out from the Hawks, all I can say is good luck on getting more on the market. If he does, I doubt it would be that much more and he wont be playing for the champs anymore.

 

[roshinaya]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

edit: site acting all weird

 

[jakobeast]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="R K"]





I'm sorry I kind of have to laugh a little here. This coming from the guy that was pushing so hard for them to nab Turco at the Deadline he predicted it would happen several times.



Sorry I'm not discounting his value, while I realize he has just FIFTY-FOUR NHL games combined. Plus the playoffs.[/quote]



Im with RK. Niemi sure did show some flashes of amazing skill and, more importantly, poise and maturity. However, he has yet to play a full NHL season.



If he wants a big payday, he should agree to a 2 year at 2 mill or so, then when it's time for a new contract, if he still has played to the level we all hope he can, then go ahead and give him years and cash.

 

[IceHogsFan]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="jakobeast"]



Im with RK. Niemi sure did show some flashes of amazing skill and, more importantly, poise and maturity. However, he has yet to play a full NHL season.



If he wants a big payday, he should agree to a 2 year at 2 mill or so, then when it's time for a new contract, if he still has played to the level we all hope he can, then go ahead and give him years and cash.[/quote]





I nominate Jako as Niemi's agent!

 

[bubbleheadchief]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="IceHogsFan"]





I nominate Jako as Niemi's agent![/quote]

Me to, althoguh I think if he woked that way as an agent, he wouldnt have very many clients.

 

[bierboy]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="Pez68"]



On this team, I put Niemi behind about 10 guys as far as importance and value to the team is concerned.....[/quote]

MINIMUM....maybe even lower...he was truly average in the SCF.

 

[noon]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="5Minutes4Fighting"]Yes we can curse the Blues for giving Halak that contract, but Zito can also use as evidence the totally asinine contracts the Hawks gave Huet (for playing a good 10 games) and especially Khabby (for having one good playoff run and winning the Cup).[/quote]



No he can't. I was perusing the CBA last night -- hadn't cracked that thing in a few years -- and was reviewing the categories of admissible evidence at a salary arbitration hearing. Contracts signed by players as UFA's are NOT admissible evidence. At first, I thought that odd, but the more I thought about it, I suppose the theory is that as a RFA, you should not be compared to players on the UFA market. Unfortunately, Halak signed as a RFA, so you can bet your ass Zito will be using that as Exhibit A. Unfortunately, that also means that the recent signings of Ellis, Mason, & Nitty are inadmissible, since they all signed as UFA's. Fortunately, though, that also means Huet's contract is inadmissible. (Khabby's contract w/ the Hawks couldn't be used b/c not only did he sign as a UFA, contracts from the 05-06 season are inadmissible). And Leighton's contract will be admissible -- and will likely feature prominently in the Hawks' evidence.

 

[IceHogsFan]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

I really feel that the issue here with arbitration is not an Antti agenda.

I am going to speculate it is purely an agent move because I do not believe

Antti has the personality to support this type of aggression. Then again, that

is just my opinion. If my assumption is correct then I hope that someone can

get to him and explain the ramifications he is establishing for himself in the

hockey community not just from team perspectives but also from a fan perspective

like those of us here.

 

[Larmer83]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="noon"]



No he can't. I was perusing the CBA last night -- hadn't cracked that thing in a few years -- and was reviewing the categories of admissible evidence at a salary arbitration hearing. Contracts signed by players as UFA's are NOT admissible evidence. At first, I thought that odd, but the more I thought about it, I suppose the theory is that as a RFA, you should not be compared to players on the UFA market. Unfortunately, Halak signed as a RFA, so you can bet your ass Zito will be using that as Exhibit A. Unfortunately, that also means that the recent signings of Ellis, Mason, & Nitty are inadmissible, since they all signed as UFA's. Fortunately, though, that also means Huet's contract is inadmissible. (Khabby's contract w/ the Hawks couldn't be used b/c not only did he sign as a UFA, contracts from the 05-06 season are inadmissible). And Leighton's contract will be admissible -- and will likely feature prominently in the Hawks' evidence.[/quote]

I believe a fairly good comparison in the Niemi arbitration is the 2nd contract signed by Cam Ward. The deal was done in a summer(2007) when he was an RFA and took place under the current CBA.



There are similarities between Niemi and Ward at the end of their 1st NHL contracts-

*No doubt Zito will point out that Niemi was the SC winning goalie. Ward was as well with better playoff #'s than Niemi and Ward won the Conn Smythe.

*Both had a short regular season resume when getting 2nd year contracts. Ward's was bit longer since that contract was a season removed fron the SC.



Ward's 2nd contract was for 3 years at 2.66 million per cap hit. That contract signed in June of 2007 started in the 2007-08 season and this years cap has risen about 18% to the upcoming year. Taking the increase of the cap into account, puts the amount at 3.15 per season.

 

[Maiden]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="R K"]





I'm sorry I kind of have to laugh a little here. This coming from the guy that was pushing so hard for them to nab Turco at the Deadline he predicted it would happen several times.



Sorry I'm not discounting his value, while I realize he has just FIFTY-FOUR NHL games combined. Plus the playoffs.[/quote]



I asked for Turco if MCJackass was going to push that Huet played in the playoffs.

You know as well as anyone I have pushed for Niemi to be the starter since day 1.



Go ahead and let Niemi walk and you can post all the goalies you want in the net to defend "YOUR" cup.

 

[Maiden]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="Larmer83"]

I believe a fairly good comparison in the Niemi arbitration is the 2nd contract signed by Cam Ward. The deal was done in a summer(2007) when he was an RFA and took place under the current CBA.



There are similarities between Niemi and Ward at the end of their 1st NHL contracts-

*No doubt Zito will point out that Niemi was the SC winning goalie. Ward was as well with better playoff #'s than Niemi and Ward won the Conn Smythe.

*Both had a short regular season resume when getting 2nd year contracts. Ward's was bit longer since that contract was a season removed fron the SC.



Ward's 2nd contract was for 3 years at 2.66 million per cap hit. That contract signed in June of 2007 started in the 2007-08 season and this years cap has risen about 18% to the upcoming year. Taking the increase of the cap into account, puts the amount at 3.15 per season.[/quote]



Anyone who thinks Niemi isn't worth this contract is fooling themselves.

I actually have his agent asking for 10 mil for 3 years.

 

[Guest]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="Maiden"]



I asked for Turco if MCJackass was going to push that Huet played in the playoffs.

You know as well as anyone I have pushed for Niemi to be the starter since day 1.



Go ahead and let Niemi walk and you can post all the goalies you want in the net to defend "YOUR" cup.[/quote]



It depends on what they can afford. It's just that simple. "Our" Cup will be defended either way. Whether it was Ellis, Mason, Crawford or Toivenen. Hell maybe they can find Fallon.



I hope Niemi is here.

 

[noon]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="Maiden"]



Anyone who thinks Niemi isn't worth this contract is fooling themselves.

I actually have his agent asking for 10 mil for 3 years.[/quote]



If they don't resolve before going to arbitration, it is up to the Hawks to elect whether the arbitrator is awarding a 1-year or a 2-year contract. (There are some situations, though I don't recall what they are or if they are applicable, where the only option is a 1-year contract).



He might be worth that, Maiden, and I would not be surprised to see him get an award of that magnitude. But, if so, he may well find himself waiting for other GM's to make him an offer on the UFA market, because I doubt the Hawks can afford much more than 3 -- and even that looks to be pretty tight.

 

[Maiden]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="R K"]



It depends on what they can afford. It's just that simple. "Our" Cup will be defended either way. Whether it was Ellis, Mason, Crawford or Toivenen. Hell maybe they can find Fallon.



I hope Niemi is here.[/quote]



As you know, I've worked the cap and it can be afforded.



As far as the 4 goalies you listed, good luck with that. I'd rather watch our squirt goalie over any of those 4.

 

[Guest]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="noon"]



If they don't resolve before going to arbitration, it is up to the Hawks to elect whether the arbitrator is awarding a 1-year or a 2-year contract. (There are some situations, though I don't recall what they are or if they are applicable, where the only option is a 1-year contract).



He might be worth that, Maiden, and I would not be surprised to see him get an award of that magnitude. But, if so, he may well find himself waiting for other GM's to make him an offer on the UFA market, because I doubt the Hawks can afford much more than 3 -- and even that looks to be pretty tight.[/quote]





Hjarlmarsson and Niemi. Which is more important? Maiden knows the Cap situation better than most Noon. He knows we can't afford much over 2.5 for Niemi.



I compare what Leighton got to what Niemi should get. Leighton actually has more NHL Experience. So does Ellis, Auld, Mason, ect ect ect.

 

[Guest]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="Maiden"]



As you know, I've worked the cap and it can be afforded.



As far as the 4 goalies you listed, good luck with that. I'd rather watch our squirt goalie over any of those 4.[/quote]



Sorry I think it had just as much to do with the team in front of Niemi than Niemi. Just like game 6. Campbell doesnt get his blade on that puck, we are back here for game 7. Although listening to Foley it was a "great save by Niemi". Not so much.



Now if you think they can pay Niemi in the tune of 3.5 and then Hjarlmarson 2.5-3 and ice the other 5 guys, you must have numbers others don't.

 

[Ton]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

We can ice a roster of 20 players right up to 59.4 mil with the $4M carry over penalty, Niemi making around $3.2M, and Hjalmarsson making around $2.5M and still have around 100K in cap space.



It would have to look something like this:



Brouwer/Toews/Kane

Kopecky/Sharp/Hossa

Bickell/Bolland/Stalberg

Kruger/Reasoner/Dowell



Keith/Seabs

Campbell/Hjalmarsson

Lalonde/Scott



Niemi

Crawford

 

[noon]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

OK. Dumb question time. How realistic is it to carry an Active Roster of only 20? Anyone have stats on what other teams carry only 20 vs. 21, 22, or 23?

 

[bierboy]

Re: Niemi makes me say "NO!" (arbitration confirmed)

[quote name="R K"]...Campbell doesnt get his blade on that puck, we are back here for game 7....[/quote]

My take on that play? If Soupy doesn't get his stick on that puck it goes LOWER than it actually did, probably hitting Niemi in the upper chest. I don't think Campbell deflected left, right or down. Either way, it doesn't go in...