Niemis Arbitration

[Chief Walking Stick]

[quote name="Maiden"]Every last goon on this board bitched and moaned that Turco was over the hill, sucks, couldn't stop a beach ball last spring BUT now that he would alledegly cost 1.5 mil its a "value" signing. Kiss my ass with a hacksaw........................[/quote]



I'm with ya... there were only like 3-4 of us that wanted Turco AND supported statistical evidence.

 

[Ton]

There is a difference, back then Turco was just as expensive as Huet... now he costs $1.5M and allows us some room.



Of course he isn't great, but he is serviceable and most-likely makes the most sense at this point.



If Huet cost $1.5M I don't think anyone would complain about him either. Turco has his issues, just like Huet and Niemi, but the difference is he can play the puck. Right now he looks like the option that makes the most sense, if Niemi were to make $1.5M this conversation would be considered a JOKE!

 

[Maiden]

[quote name="Ton"]There is a difference, back then Turco was just as expensive as Huet... now he costs $1.5M and allows us some room.



Of course he isn't great, but he is serviceable and most-likely makes the most sense at this point.



If Huet cost $1.5M I don't think anyone would complain about him either. Turco has his issues, just like Huet and Niemi, but the difference is he can play the puck. Right now he looks like the option that makes the most sense, if Niemi were to make $1.5M this conversation would be considered a JOKE![/quote]



With Niemi at 2.75 this conversation is a joke. I've done the cap work and he fits within the salary cap ceiling.

 

[Ton]

[quote name="Maiden"]



With Niemi at 2.75 this conversation is a joke. I've done the cap work and he fits within the salary cap ceiling.[/quote]



Of course he fits, people can make him fit with a $3M contract and even people can make him fit with a $3.5M contract. I guess its easy to be a capologist these days, can you really fit a 22-man roster with Niemi right now? Doubt it. How much wiggle room do you have in that line-up? Probably none -- forget calling anyone up.



Its for one year, its not as if we will keep him any longer than that since he will be a UFA and certainly test the market next summer... is it worth crunching him in? I don't think so, not when you have other cheaper alternatives with a bigger resume.



Now if signing Niemi meant he would be a Hawk for longer than one year, I'd consider it due to his potential, but since its just one year (a year that we are cap-strapped in, no less), forget it.



Regardless, I'm no expert so I'll leave that to them... if they can figure it out, kudos to them, but so far it looks like they would be a lot more comfortable if they did sign Turco.

 

[Maiden]

[quote name="Ton"]



Of course he fits, people can make him fit with a $3M contract and even people can make him fit with a $3.5M contract. I guess its easy to be a capologist these days, can you really fit a 22-man roster with Niemi right now? Doubt it. How much wiggle room do you have in that line-up? Probably none -- forget calling anyone up.



Its for one year, its not as if we will keep him any longer than that since he will be a UFA and certainly test the market next summer... is it worth crunching him in? I don't think so, not when you have other cheaper alternatives with a bigger resume.



Now if signing Niemi meant he would be a Hawk for longer than one year, I'd consider it due to his potential, but since its just one year (a year that we are cap-strapped in, no less), forget it.



Regardless, I'm no expert so I'll leave that to them... if they can figure it out, kudos to them, but so far it looks like they would be a lot more comfortable if they did sign Turco.[/quote]



Wiggle room for what? Trade deadline acquisition. Let's get to the trade deadline first and see where we stand. You want wiggle room; trade someone off your current roster.



So what if Niemi has a 1 year contract. Just means he's going to play his ass off to earn another contract. It's too bad all sports contracts aren't one year so players have to play to earn their next one. As far as being a capoligist, I appreciate the compliment.

 

[Maiden]

To make additional room for Niemi's contract I would trade Kopecky.

 

[Shoots_he_scores]

Good riddance to Niemi. Find a taker and let him realize just how dumb his agent is when he ends up playing on a bad team and he doesn't have Keith Seabrook Hjalmarsson to save his ass. Talented, definitely but he doesn't steal many games. Sure he's done it but he doesnt do it on a regular basis. Besides Turco/Crawford for a year doesnt sound too bad. Allow Crawford to show what he can do if he proves himself than we have a goalie if not part your ways and sign a veteran for a few years. Next year's free agent class includes Vokoun, Bryzgalov, Giguere and Craig Anders(s)on so options are there.

 

[Maiden]

[quote name="Shoots_he_scores"]Good riddance to Niemi. Find a taker and let him realize just how dumb his agent is when he ends up playing on a bad team and he doesn't have Keith Seabrook Hjalmarsson to save his ass. Talented, definitely but he doesn't steal many games. Sure he's done it but he doesnt do it on a regular basis. Besides Turco/Crawford for a year doesnt sound too bad. Allow Crawford to show what he can do if he proves himself than we have a goalie if not part your ways and sign a veteran for a few years. Next year's free agent class includes Vokoun, Bryzgalov, Giguere and Craig Anders(s)on so options are there.[/quote]



Are you fucking kidding me? Go back and watch some of this past years playoffs games and get back to me. Holy **** what team's games do you people watch?

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

[quote name="Shoots_he_scores"]Good riddance to Niemi. Find a taker and let him realize just how dumb his agent is when he ends up playing on a bad team and he doesn't have Keith Seabrook Hjalmarsson to save his ass. Talented, definitely but he doesn't steal many games. Sure he's done it but he doesnt do it on a regular basis. Besides Turco/Crawford for a year doesnt sound too bad. Allow Crawford to show what he can do if he proves himself than we have a goalie if not part your ways and sign a veteran for a few years. Next year's free agent class includes Vokoun, Bryzgalov, Giguere and Craig Anders(s)on so options are there.[/quote]



He SAVED the STANLEY CUP FINALS CUP WINNING GAME in OVERTIME.... MANY TIMES!



He also stole 2 of the San Jose games hands down.



Niemi bailed this team out so much this year it's unreal, whether it be regular season or post season.



You can "good riddance" the STANLEY CUP if Huet was in net... count your blessings.

Next year's free agent class includes Vokoun, Bryzgalov, Giguere and Craig Anders(s)on so options are there.

In short... next year's FA class includes: Vokoun/Bryzgalov.

 

[roshinaya]

[quote name="Maiden"]

Wiggle room for what? Trade deadline acquisition. Let's get to the trade deadline first and see where we stand. You want wiggle room; trade someone off your current roster.

[/quote]



Um, wiggle room for injuries. Having the team so close to the cap, if one or even two players are out due to small injuries then the Hawks are forced to play with a short bench, much like the Flames did. It's just not a good idea to just have a 21 man roster with no space. Trading someone away and replacing them with yet another rookie or minimum wage player is also not really a viable option, unless you are OK trading either Bolland, Sharp or Hossa and replacing them with a couple cheaper players?



Already now the bottom half of the team will be rookies and career AHLers for the most part. What happens if there's a few of the top 6 and top 4 goes down? The top 6 is good, but not that good that they could shrug off any significant injury to a top player without missing a beat.

Sure we all hope that the rooks will step up and have good years, and there is no reason they couldn't, but to bank on it happening is a huge risk.



If Turco can indeed be signed for $1.5m then there should be no question if the Hawks should do it. I think Niemi is a great goalie, but considering the cap a luxury the Hawks can not have at this time and Turco will be serviceable goalie for the next year.

 

[Maiden]

[quote name="roshinaya"]



Um, wiggle room for injuries. Having the team so close to the cap, if one or even two players are out due to small injuries then the Hawks are forced to play with a short bench, much like the Flames did. It's just not a good idea to just have a 21 man roster with no space. Trading someone away and replacing them with yet another rookie or minimum wage player is also not really a viable option, unless you are OK trading either Bolland, Sharp or Hossa and replacing them with a couple cheaper players?



Already now the bottom half of the team will be rookies and career AHLers for the most part. What happens if there's a few of the top 6 and top 4 goes down? The top 6 is good, but not that good that they could shrug off any significant injury to a top player without missing a beat.

Sure we all hope that the rooks will step up and have good years, and there is no reason they couldn't, but to bank on it happening is a huge risk.



If Turco can indeed be signed for $1.5m then there should be no question if the Hawks should do it. I think Niemi is a great goalie, but considering the cap a luxury the Hawks can not have at this time and Turco will be serviceable goalie for the next year.[/quote]



If one or two of our top 6 go down (meaning season ending) this season is over with and wont matter what you put out there.

 

[MassHavoc]

I just hope that paying him 2.75mil also magically teaches him how to give up less rebounds. I love the guy, and he knows how to make the big saves, but we are fooling ourselves when we try to convince ourselves that we have anywhere need the team we had in front of him last year. It could eventually be that way but he's going to get shelled often and early, and won't have the talent in front of him to make up for his rebound control. The thing is that their is no way he has the kind of year he had last year, I just don't see it happening, and then if they do keep him people will be all over Stan for getting Niemi at 2.75 when he ends up looking as good as Turco at 1.5. So, if you can sign and trade with Turco coming in at 1.5, I'm fine with that. He's about to hit that number of games where opposing teams start to figure him out, if he was signed for 3 years and given the time to grow into it then fine. But the way I see it is he's gone after next year either way because of the douchebag agent. You can guarantee an injury and the hawks need the Space. teams learned they just need to be physical with Kane and Toews so it's possible, Bolland and Hossa could easily re-injure... The kids, well, they may not even have the stamina to go a full season. This will not be a healthy team. No team has every in the history of hockey gone the full season healthy. You have to have wiggle room. I think even extra 150k that the 2.6 deal would have given, might have been just enough.

 

[the canadian dream]

[quote name="Maiden"]Every last goon on this board bitched and moaned that Turco was over the hill, sucks, couldn't stop a beach ball last spring BUT now that he would alledegly cost 1.5 mil its a "value" signing. Kiss my ass with a hacksaw........................[/quote]





Wooooaaa slow down. I am one of these "goons" I guess. Here's the difference between Turco right now and Turco of last year. Turco last year - 5.4 million. Turco perhaps this season - 1.5 million.



His talents are not worth 5.4 million but 1.5? You take that with no questions asked if the team needs a #1.



There isn't a team out there in need of a goalie who wouldn't.





As for Neimi? Meh. Love the guy, love what he brought to the team. I want the Hawks to sign him. If they don't or can't well thanks for being a part of an amazing unforgetable year. We will never forget it. I don't think the arbitration award is that bad to be honest for a Stanley Cup winning goalie regardless of the team infront of him. Would prefer this sort of money going to a goalie a season after their rookie campaign though.

 

[bierboy]

[quote name="Maiden"]



Nobody wanted Turco at the trading deadline.........now he is the second coming of Jesus. Totally hilarious.[/quote]

If you even took the time to read my post, it doesn't come close to inferring Turco is the second coming. It's a rational opinion on the merits of signing Turco or Niemi at this moment in time. Geesh....

 

[Irish Hawk]

[quote name="Shoots_he_scores"]Good riddance to Niemi. Find a taker and let him realize just how dumb his agent is when he ends up playing on a bad team and he doesn't have Keith Seabrook Hjalmarsson to save his ass. Talented, definitely but he doesn't steal many games. Sure he's done it but he doesnt do it on a regular basis. Besides Turco/Crawford for a year doesnt sound too bad. Allow Crawford to show what he can do if he proves himself than we have a goalie if not part your ways and sign a veteran for a few years. Next year's free agent class includes Vokoun, Bryzgalov, Giguere and Craig Anders(s)on so options are there.[/quote]



I'm sorry but are you for real? This is Niemi we are talking about now not some other goalie. I lost count of the amount of games he stole during the regular season and post season. You really need to go back and watch the games he played in if that's your opinion. With the award being so borderline it was always going to divide opinion but I have to give the nod to Niemi. As Maiden pointed out if one of the top 6 go down it wont make a blind bit of difference who gets called up as it will be game over. If more wiggle room is needed I'd trade Skille but definitely hang onto Kopecky really liked how his game improved towards the end of the season and think he could surprise a lot of people this season.



Even though Niemi was only awarded one year by the arbitrator can the Hawks counter offer with the 3 year deal again for the 2.75 million or is the ruling final? Or sign the one year with an agreement in place to sign a multi year deal mid season, if this could work then it's a no brainer to sign him as Turco is not the answer, he didn't loose the job in Dallas because he was on fire last season

 

[roshinaya]

Hawks can either accept the arbitration award or walk-away, which would make Niemi an UFA, where he can look for deals from other teams. Hawks can of course sign him for whatever also once he goes UFA.

 

[KRAZYHWKFAN]

so sign him and try to extend the contract. When and if he denies it is when we trade him to a team with cap space for something nice

 

[Larmer83]

[quote name="Stu Grimson"]



I'm with ya... there were only like 3-4 of us that wanted Turco AND supported statistical evidence.[/quote]

I vaguely remember the post-Olympics Turco Banter...

"Turco was unreal last night"

"He was pulled in the 1st period"



Both sides of the Turco discussion were right on any given day.



If the rumors are correct, this comes down to a $1.25 million dollar business decision. It's probably a one year decision. It comes down to a question of a goalie that is/was good to one that is/will be good. A tough decision since the arbitrators award to Niemi is right on the tipping point.



If it's Niemi, Turco, or Theodore, it's a good bet the Hawks end the season with a top 4 seed at the end of the 2010-11 season. So given the cap restrictions, which goalie gives the Hawks the best chance to defend and retain the Cup?



Getting back to that Turco trade deadline discussion. Post-Olympics, Turco was not good-when his team needed him the most. In fact, Kari Lehtonen out played Turco down the stretch. Let that sink in for a moment. It's a small sample size...



Lehtonen: 6 Wins 4 Losses, 2.81 GAA, .911 SV%

Turco: 3 Wins 5 Losses 2 OTL, 3.13 GAA, .902 SV%



Again, it's a difficult decision. I believe, given the limited options, that Niemi gives the Hawks the best chance to retain the SC.

 

[The Count Dante]

[quote name="Maiden"]Every last goon on this board bitched and moaned that Turco was over the hill, sucks, couldn't stop a beach ball last spring BUT now that he would alledegly cost 1.5 mil its a "value" signing. Kiss my ass with a hacksaw........................[/quote]



I am one of the...non-goons here I guess, since I love to watch Turco. For the past few years, me and my fellow hawk geek friends use to talk about a guy like Turco minding the net with the puck moving style the Hawks now play and how great would it be if the d core were able to mesh with his style, it would be some incredible hockey to watch.



I also agree that Turco wasnt worth it for 5 mill. He is a STEAL at 1.5. With the D he has in front of him along with offensive production to help bail him out and this is something I would LOVE to see.



I would order my Turco jersey the second he signs.

 

[supraman]

[quote name="THe Count Dante"]



I am one of the...non-goons here I guess, since I love to watch Turco. For the past few years, me and my fellow hawk geek friends use to talk about a guy like Turco minding the net with the puck moving style the Hawks now play and how great would it be if the d core were able to mesh with his style, it would be some incredible hockey to watch.



I also agree that Turco wasnt worth it for 5 mill. He is a STEAL at 1.5. With the D he has in front of him along with offensive production to help bail him out and this is something I would LOVE to see.



I would order my Turco jersey the second he signs.[/quote]



I'd rather have Niemi over Turco but Dante did convince me that Turco's puck moving style would be interesting but I do think Turco is not that great anymore and I think Niemi would keep more pucks out of the net but Turco might generate more offense.