Not surprisingly, Bulls out of Melo sweepstakes

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Is Rose on track to become a top 5 or top 10 player? If so, would that still be achievable if you bring in Anthony?

No doubt that this is a valid point.

 

[zack54attack]

I really dont understand why people don't want to trade Noah for Melo... I mean, seriously?

 

[Kush77]

Ewing for Rodman. That's interesting.

From what I read you guys are talking after the 72-10, 1995-96 season.

I would have done it.

Bill Wennington benefited from Jordan double teams and was always able to knock down that little 10-12 footer. Same with Longley. Imagine if that was Ewing? I think Ewing's rebounding would be good enough.

Being able to look back at it, Rodman's worst season was 96-97 (he bounced back nicely in 97-98 after a piss poor start). Rodman kicked the camera man and had about a 10 game suspension. He got hurt toward the end of the year and was hampered throughout the 1997 playoffs. He was actually pretty bad that playoffs. Especially against Atlanta.

Assuming the Bulls would still bring in Brian Williams (Bison Dele). The Bulls would have a starting lineup of Jordan, Harper, Pippen, Williams and Ewing. That would be solid.

But to look at it from Rami's point of view. the reason the Bulls lost in the 1995 playoffs (besides MJ not being in shape) was rebounding. Losing Grant and Williams the year before. So Rodman was exactly what they needed. I can see what he's saying. We all know Ewing is a better offensive player, but the Bulls didn't need O, they needed what Rodman provided.

Someone like Ewing would have been more beneficial during the 97-98 season when Pippen was out until January and Jordan had to carry a lot of the load at 35 years old. Rodman played great in 97-98, but obviously couldn't help Jordan in the scoring department.

Maybe when I get NBA 2K11 I'll trade Rodman for Ewing and see what happens :bizarro:

 

[Lex L.]

Ewing for Rodman. That's interesting.

From what I read you guys are talking after the 72-10, 1995-96 season.

I would have done it.

Bill Wennington benefited from Jordan double teams and was always able to knock down that little 10-12 footer. Same with Longley. Imagine if that was Ewing? I think Ewing's rebounding would be good enough.

Being able to look back at it, Rodman's worst season was 96-97 (he bounced back nicely in 97-98 after a piss poor start). Rodman kicked the camera man and had about a 10 game suspension. He got hurt toward the end of the year and was hampered throughout the 1997 playoffs. He was actually pretty bad that playoffs. Especially against Atlanta.

Assuming the Bulls would still bring in Brian Williams (Bison Dele). The Bulls would have a starting lineup of Jordan, Harper, Pippen, Williams and Ewing. That would be solid.

But to look at it from Rami's point of view. the reason the Bulls lost in the 1995 playoffs (besides MJ not being in shape) was rebounding. Losing Grant and Williams the year before. So Rodman was exactly what they needed. I can see what he's saying. We all know Ewing is a better offensive player, but the Bulls didn't need O, they needed what Rodman provided.

Someone like Ewing would have been more beneficial during the 97-98 season when Pippen was out until January and Jordan had to carry a lot of the load at 35 years old. Rodman played great in 97-98, but obviously couldn't help Jordan in the scoring department.

Maybe when I get NBA 2K11 I'll trade Rodman for Ewing and see what happens :bizarro:

And thats what I think most of us are agreeing on.

But it should also be pointed out that Rodman, aside from being one of the best rebounders to ever play, there was more to his game, whether its getting in someone's head, getting to looseballs, or any other type of hustle play.

When you had a Rodman on your team, it was like he did the dirty work of two people. Jordan opened up offensive opportunities because of the attention he demanded from the defense and Rodman opened up a lot of opportunities for others by taking care of enough dirty work for two.

Rodman is like the all time king of battling it out in the trenches.

BTW, the attention Phil Jackson gets for coaching elite players is misplaced. If you really want to get to the heart of what made Phil Jackson great at managing personalities, people should be looking at how he coached Dennis Rodman and to a lesser degree Ron Artest. Jackson succeeds where other coaches fail in this regard. Jackson could take personalities that torment coaches and make it work. Coaching Jordan is easy compared to coaching guys like Rodman. I think Phil backing Rodman is a sign of how awesome Jackson is at managing personalities.

 

[pinkizdead]

rodman for ewing sounds like a good deal to me. i'm in.

 

[Diddy1122]

WTF happened to this thread? It starts as a bash on Bulls management for being tards, then shifts to fans being tards for overrating Noah, then somehow switches gears to some trade scenario of Ewing for Rodman. This thread was more random than an angry phone call from Mel Gibson.

Can I add this though, I think the Bulls got fleeced when they didn't insist on Matt Bullard in the Pippen trade.

 

[Dpauley23]

I really dont understand why people don't want to trade Noah for Melo... I mean, seriously?

Because we also trading a 17 and 7 guy in Deng. Many people forget this and just want to knock him because of his contract, but he's still top 10 SF in the league.

 

[Lefty]

Because we also trading a 17 and 7 guy in Deng. Many people forget this and just want to knock him because of his contract, but he's still top 10 SF in the league.

Oh please, and Melo is at least a top-10 overall player in the NBA, get off it already. And you know why people constantly bring up his contract? Because it's relevant. This team has to start paying some key players some really big money soon, and having Deng's contract on top of all the the other money that needs to be dolled out pretty soon is going to cripple the team as far as fluidity of roster goes.

If he produced more in-line with what he makes, you'd have a pot to piss in, but he doesn't, so you don't. Are Bulls fans really still overrating Luol Deng? Still? Good lord.

 

[Dpauley23]

Oh please, and Melo is at least a top-10 overall player in the NBA, get off it already. And you know why people constantly bring up his contract? Because it's relevant. This team has to start paying some key players some really big money soon, and having Deng's contract on top of all the the other money that needs to be dolled out pretty soon is going to cripple the team as far as fluidity of roster goes.

If he produced more in-line with what he makes, you'd have a pot to piss in, but he doesn't, so you don't. Are Bulls fans really still overrating Luol Deng? Still? Good lord.

If Melo is so great why hasn't he been leading his teams to 50 wins every year. He's a top 10 player at best. Even if you get Melo your still winning the same amount of games this year. Maybe a few more. It doesn't make you a title contender and it still screws you financially

 

[Dpauley23]

Oh please, and Melo is at least a top-10 overall player in the NBA, get off it already. And you know why people constantly bring up his contract? Because it's relevant. This team has to start paying some key players some really big money soon, and having Deng's contract on top of all the the other money that needs to be dolled out pretty soon is going to cripple the team as far as fluidity of roster goes.

If he produced more in-line with what he makes, you'd have a pot to piss in, but he doesn't, so you don't. Are Bulls fans really still overrating Luol Deng? Still? Good lord.

My point was that I haven't heard anyone mentioned that were trading Deng. Just wanted to point out that were trading two top 10 players at their positions

 

[TheStig]

If Melo is so great why hasn't he been leading his teams to 50 wins every year. He's a top 10 player at best. Even if you get Melo your still winning the same amount of games this year. Maybe a few more. It doesn't make you a title contender and it still screws you financially

Ugh, he's done it the last 3 years.

 

[TheStig]

Ewing for Rodman would have improved the defense more. Ewing could guard elite centers and block shots. It would have made Pip and Mj much more dangerous by letting them play the passing lanes. The downgrade in rebounding would have been minimal. We had crap rebounders in teh front court around rodman like longley and wennington. We would have been able to find a pf better than those two. Not saying it worked out poorly for us but I can't see it being turned down.

 

[pinkizdead]

Thank you for labeling the Top 5-10 NBA player for Carmelo..Getting sick of people saying he's a Top 5 player..He's not. Top 10 though..definitely.

I have good reasons for not wanting to trade Noah. Its harder to acquire a center of his magnitude than it is to find a good wing player. Anthony is a great wing player, but he's not a guy who will suddenly put us over the top..Not saying Noah is either and most of my not wanting to trade Noah is based on what I think Noah can become..and he may ver well never become that...but I'm going off potential for now. This upcoming season we should get a good idea.

what about noah. this argument is Special person. i see it everywhere. melo is only a top ten player. what is noah? a top 30? maybe 25? Yeah, we're totally not raping denver in this trade. not even close...

 

[pinkizdead]

WTF happened to this thread? It starts as a bash on Bulls management for being tards, then shifts to fans being tards for overrating Noah, then somehow switches gears to some trade scenario of Ewing for Rodman. This thread was more random than an angry phone call from Mel Gibson.

Can I add this though, I think the Bulls got fleeced when they didn't insist on Matt Bullard in the Pippen trade.

i want this thread to meet me in jacuzzi, then suck my **** and apologize. in that order.

 

[pinkizdead]

Good to see you're still tarding up the boards.....

Wait...didn't you have me on ignore.

******.



If this report is true and half of the reason this trade didn't/couldn't/wouldn't work out is because we were unwilling to give up Noah to get Carmelo Anthony...then yes..we are drastically overvaluing Joakim.

i think fans overvalue noah, but i can't imagine management does. I sincerely belive that noah benefits the bulls far more than he does most teams in the league, and other teams realize that. I think he's a great player, but i dont think anyone see's him as a building block for a franchise.

with that said, if the bulls offered noah at the trade deadline, and everything else for anthony sucked, the bulls would get anthony.

 

[Lefty]

If Melo is so great why hasn't he been leading his teams to 50 wins every year.

:facepalm:

2007-08 Denver Nuggets: 50-32
2008-09 Denver Nuggets: 54-28
2009-10 Denver Nuggets: 53-29

He's a top 10 player at best.

Nuggets with Melo (7 seasons): 107.9 average Offensive Rating, 7 straight playoff appearances.

Nuggets in 7 seasons prior to Melo: 101 average Offensive Rating, 0 playoff appearances.

Top-ten scoring finishes: 5
Career points per game rank among active players: 5th; All-time: 15th

Seems like a top-10 player to me, at the very least.

It doesn't make you a title contender

:bowrofl:

Even if you get Melo your still winning the same amount of games this year. Maybe a few more.

:lmao:

and it still screws you financially

1) Let's assume this statement isn't made out of complete lack of understanding of the payroll situation of the Bulls. Think about what you're implying here. Are you honestly saying that you would rather be financially screwed by paying Luol Deng than Carmelo Anthony?

2) The difference in payrolls and cap figures for a Bulls team without Carmelo (and with Deng and Noah) are actually far, far worse than with Carmelo fucking Anthony and less a highly overpaid forward who can't stay healthy and a very good center with bad feet. Know what you're talking about before you spout off.

My point was that I haven't heard anyone mentioned that were trading Deng. Just wanted to point out that were trading two top 10 players at their positions

And getting a top-10 (at the very least) player in the league to play alongside our phenom PG and very very good PF/C. And keep in mind, as I have pointed out many times, rebounding is not as important as scoring in the NBA, hasn't been in the last 30 years. And because of that fact, it's a lot easier to find cheap, solid rebounding than it is elite scoring.

 

[Kush77]

DPauley said a trade for Melo would screw the Bulls financially. I disagree, but how much more would they be paying Melo per year as opposed to Noah?

Would you rather have Noah for 12 mil - or the 15 his is supposedly asking for. Or Melo for 17-20?

I'd take Melo.

I just wish the Bulls could actually get a deal done for an elite player for a change.

 

[Lefty]

DPauley said a trade for Melo would screw the Bulls financially. I disagree, but how much more would they be paying Melo per year as opposed to Noah?

Would you rather have Noah for 12 mil - or the 15 his is supposedly asking for. Or Melo for 17-20?

I'd take Melo.

I just wish the Bulls could actually get a deal done for an elite player for a change.

It's even better than that, the Bulls could conceivably be paying Noah and Deng a combined $25 million+ for the next four seasons (with that number quickly approaching $30 million), so in the end they'd actually be saving money on Melo while getting elite scoring and acceptable rebounding for the 3. Then all the team has to do is find cheap rebounding/defense, something that isn't the least bit hard in the NBA.

 

[zack54attack]

How does Melo not make you a title contender?


Let me ask something. What are the Bulls really missing?
Answer: A Go to guy down the stretch. AKA a finisher. The Elite teams have a guy like that. If the Bulls were to get Melo, They'd have one.

 

[FirstTimer]

Here is another element to this: currently, this is Rose's team. The pieces on this team all kind of compliment the idea of him creating and/or scoring.

Can Rose and Anthony both be simultaneously optimally utilized? Would having Anthony cause Rose to sacrifice? Would Rose being optimally utilized cause Anthony to sacrifice his game?

Is Rose on track to become a top 5 or top 10 player? If so, would that still be achievable if you bring in Anthony?

If having Anthony prevents Rose from becoming what he can be and that is a top 10 or top 5 player like Anthony, what are you accomplishing by trading Noah and Deng to get 1 top 5/10 player when you would have had one without trading those guys?

.

So you can have TWO top 5-10 guys..... LOL at Carmelo Anthony coming and somehow making Rose worse. Rose's scoring would drop but his assists would go up. So how exactly would having Carmelo Anthony hinder Rose's development and prevent him from possibly turning into a Top 5-10 player?

If you had Rose, Melo, and Boozer on the same team you have a dynamic PG who can get to the hole on anyone, has a good mid range game, and an improving long range one. In Melo you have a deadly mid range shooter, he can also shoot three, post up, etc. He's a complete player and an absolute force. Rose driving and dishing to Melo would be filthy. Add in a legit post scorer in Boozer and you can spread the floor even more and you have 3 great scoring options on offense who can play off eachother. Rose and Boozer in pick and roll while dishing to Melo would be amazing.

So please quit with this Special person BS about how Melo might hinder Rose's development. It's just fucking dumb.

Because we also trading a 17 and 7 guy in Deng. Many people forget this and just want to knock him because of his contract, but he's still top 10 SF in the league.

Deng is not a Top 10 SF.