Not surprisingly, Bulls out of Melo sweepstakes

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I disagree with "Bosh/Haslem/Howard/Anthony/Big Z/Magloire/>>Noah/Boozer/Gibson/Thomas/Asik"

Bosh, Boozer, Noah, Haslem, and Gibson are all quality starters. Bosh is the best player of that bunch. If I was picking between what Chicago has and what Miami has (from 4-5) I would definitely take what Chicago has.

Bosh like 37 minutes. Anthony and Ilgauskas will combine for about 35, and Haslem about 15.

Boozer and Noah will combine for 70-75 minutes, and Gibson about 20. Thomas and Asik will barely play at all in big games.

 

[FirstTimer]

I disagree with "Bosh/Haslem/Howard/Anthony/Big Z/Magloire/>>Noah/Boozer/Gibson/Thomas/Asik"

...Not sure why.

Bosh, Boozer, Noah, Haslem, and Gibson are all quality starters.

Umm ok. But that makes them all equals...which they aren't.

Bosh is the best player of the bunch.
Boozer is the second best player of the bunch.
Noah is the third best player of the bunch.
Haslem is fouth
Gibson is fifth.

All "quality starters" are not created equal.

If I was picking between what Chicago has and what Miami has (from 4-5) I would definitely take what Chicago has.

But you're compeltely ignoring our sickening lack of depth at center. We have nothing. Kurt Thomas hasn't been worth a shit since 2005. Asik is unproven and not that damn good anyways.

Bosh like 37 minutes. Anthony and Ilgauskas will combine for about 35, and Haslem about 15.

That's laughable that Haslem will plays 15mpg. He played nearly twice that last season and he's going to see some major minutes.

Boozer and Noah will combine for 70-75 minutes, and Gibson about 20. Thomas and Asik will barely play at all in big games.

Ok? And that still ignore that the Heat have the advantage overall at the 4. Bosh/Haslem/Howard>Boozer and Gibson. It's not a massive advantage but it's still an advatage.

And at the 5 Miami has the advantage as well.

Anthony/Big Z/Magloire/Howard>>Noah/Thomas/Asik

We have no depth behind Noah and I think it's a little ridiculous to expect Noah to hold up to a lot of minutes coming off what usually ends up being a chronic foot problem.

But all this is pointless stupid and has moved past the entire point of this thread.

Regardless of what perceived small/minute/slight advantage you feel you may have over Miami at the center position....If you can get Carmelo freaking Anthony in part by trading Joakim Noah you do it. Can we at least agree on that? PLEASE?

 

[Lefty]

Don't hold your breath, as that would require him to admit defeat on, like, at least 6 other argumentative fronts.

 

[TheStig]

Kurt Thomas is old and bad.

I'll take Miami's four guys(Juwan Howard will play some center too) over our two guys in a heart beat. Noah is the best player of the bunch but the drop off to Kurt Thomas is astoundingly huge. Miami's best guy is average but there's really not a ton of drop off and it's more even.

We have a better starting center but we have zero depth at the position. Miami will wear us the **** out at center in a 7 game series anyways so I don't see that as a "win" position so trading Noah to get Melo is a no brainer.

Really Juwan Howard is much better than Kurt Thomas. This isn't 1995. They had the same per last year and Kurt Thomas was decent in the playoffs against an allstar center. Past Noah, I'd say its a crap shoot. All of them are more or less equal. Asik would be the wild card and I think we pretty handedly win the PG and C postions unless Bron decides to try to be Magic. Not to mention the fact that Gibson would kill all of them at C and he will get some minutes there.

 

[FirstTimer]

Really Juwan Howard is much better than Kurt Thomas.

Kurt Thomas last season:
3 ppg
4.2 rpg
Played 15mpg.

This is our backup center. THIS.

Juwan Howard.
6ppg
4.6 rpg
22mpg(started 27 games)

This is Miami's 3rd option at PF and 3rd or 4th option at Center.

Juwan Howard is better than Kurt Thomas to begin with. Let alone when you put it in context of Kurt Thomas old bad ass being our backup where as Juwan is Miami's 3rd option at both post positions. Miami is easily deeper than us in the post.

Also, PER is a Special person stat. It's a terrible attemptat applying a sabremetric type outlook on basketball. It's an awful stat. I don't need PER to tell me that last year Juwan Howard was a betetr player than Kurt Thomas in a bigger role.

I think we pretty handedly win the PG and C postions unless Bron decides to try to be Magic.

You do realize that Riley's selling point to James and a large reason why James chose miami is because Riley told him that he wanted him to be Magic right? Have people already forgotten this?

Not to mention the fact that Gibson would kill all of them at C and he will get some minutes there.

Great. Now we have people overrating Taj.

 

[TheStig]

Kurt Thomas last season:
3 ppg
4.2 rpg
Played 15mpg.

This is our backup center. THIS.

Juwan Howard.
6ppg
4.6 rpg
22mpg(started 27 games)

This is Miami's 3rd option at PF and 3rd or 4th option at Center.

Juwan Howard is better than Kurt Thomas to begin with. Let alone when you put it in context of Kurt Thomas old bad ass being our backup where as Juwan is Miami's 3rd option at both post positions. Miami is easily deeper than us in the post.

Also, PER is a Special person stat. It's a terrible attemptat applying a sabremetric type outlook on basketball. It's an awful stat. I don't need PER to tell me that last year Juwan Howard was a betetr player than Kurt Thomas in a bigger role.



You do realize that Riley's selling point to James and a large reason why James chose miami is because Riley told him that he wanted him to be Magic right? Have people already forgotten this?


Great. Now we have people overrating Taj.

And Kurt Thomas was a lot better in the playoffs. Whats your point? Thomas is a better defender and has played a bit of C other than one injury plagued year for portland. To call to 35+yr old bench players signifigantly better than the other is stupid.

You might not like Per but they both had a similar impact on the game.

Riley sold James on being with the heat because he got 3 stars together in south beach. I don't remember hearing the magic angle. If anything he is going to be a pg because they have miller who can play 35mg at sf and a couple of scrub points.

Not overrating Taj but when they put in on of their old washed up big, we need to put in Taj to spread the floor and run circles around them. Big Z or Juwan Howard aren't going to win agasinst Taj's speed, stamina and athleticism. He is going to get a lot of fast breaks against those guys.

 

[Dpauley23]

Bosh and Haslem>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kurt Thomas.

Juwan Howard started nearly 30 games last season. Push come to shove the Heat have great depth in the front court. The Bulls can't match it. The Heat can and will wear us the **** out down low.

Bosh/Haslem/Howard/Anthony/Big Z/Magloire/>>Noah/Boozer/Gibson/Thomas/Asik

I really don't great your logic. Bosh and Boozer is basically a wash. Bosh might be a little bit better of a player, but the main difference is injury issues and age. Boozer has better offensive stats, but Bosh is better drawing fouls and a little better defensively.

Why the hell does Kurt Thomas really matter? He's going to be playing 4-6 minutes a game. Taj will be playing Center for about 10-12 minutes a game and he's sure as hell better than Howard, Anthony, Big Z and Magloire

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

There's nothing to admit defeat on. The Bulls have 2 of the top 3 best bigs, and 3 of the best 5 (and arguably 3 out of the best 4). There isn't even a big gap between Bosh and Boozer, and you guys shouldn't pretend like there is.

If Haslem plays more than 15 minutes at PF, Bosh is going to play much more C than he should. And I'm okay with that.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Can we at least agree on that? PLEASE?

I'm still not sure that they should.

 

[Lex L.]

There's nothing to admit defeat on. The Bulls have 2 of the top 3 best bigs, and 3 of the best 5 (and arguably 3 out of the best 4). There isn't even a big gap between Bosh and Boozer, and you guys shouldn't pretend like there is.

If Haslem plays more than 15 minutes at PF, Bosh is going to play much more C than he should. And I'm okay with that.

This is true. When you look past the fact that Wade and James are his BFFs, you could even make a case that Boozer is the better get.

 

[Lefty]

This is true. When you look past the fact that Wade and James are his BFFs, you could even make a case that Boozer is the better get.

And that case would be stupid. They are very similar statistically speaking, but Boozer is going to be 29 this season, Bosh is only going to be 26. Boozer has probably reached the upper limits of what he can do, whereas Bosh still has awhile to go before he reaches the peak of his development as a player.

Don't get me wrong, Carlos Boozer is very, very good, but given the choice between him and Chris Bosh, you would be foolish to take Boozer.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

And that case would be stupid. They are very similar statistically speaking, but Boozer is going to be 29 this season, Bosh is only going to be 26. Boozer has probably reached the upper limits of what he can do, whereas Bosh still has awhile to go before he reaches the peak of his development as a player.

Don't get me wrong, Carlos Boozer is very, very good, but given the choice between him and Chris Bosh, you would be foolish to take Boozer.

I'm talking about next season... 2 or 3 seasons from now rosters change. Sure, I agree with your point about Bosh being better to build around. But next season, I see both guys being on about the same level.

Also, who knows what will happen. The age difference is 3 years. It's something, sure, but it's not enormous. Boozer has shown that he can bounce back from injuries because of his strength and durability. If something happens to Bosh's knees... he may lose a lot of ability, because he depends a lot more on athletic ability.

I'm pretty happy having Boozer over Bosh. Both are very good players, that bring a lot to the table, but I believe Boozer complements Noah better than Bosh.

 

[houheffna]

Duncan was never as good as Karl Malone. The top 4 PF's are all rather interchangeable. But if I had to rank them: (1) Malone (2) Duncan (3) Barkley (4) Garnett - who I'd actually say was better than Duncan in the prime of his career.

Sure, Isiah was a HOFer. But Rose is a young guy. He has the capability of winning an MVP award or two. His athleticism for his size is un-matched in NBA history in terms of point guards... who's to say that Rose will never become a HOF player?

In terms of Miami... they will have Joel Anthony, Zydrumas Ilgauskas, and Jamaal Magloire at C. The Bulls have Joakim Noah and Kurt Thomas. I'll take our 5 well before Miami's. I'm not saying I wouldn't give him away for Melo. But there's definitely an advantage there.

I think you missed out on Tim Duncan...Duncan at his best could definitely go head up with Malone at his best. Many consider Duncan the greatest PF ever. Duncan was a better defender while Malone was a more prolific scorer but there is something to be said for leading your team to multiple titles over a decade and Duncan never had John Stocton. Parker has not been that good.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Sure, all 4 of those PFs can go head-to-head. I'm just going to say they were all great and leave it at that.

 

[Lefty]

I'm talking about next season... 2 or 3 seasons from now rosters change. Sure, I agree with your point about Bosh being better to build around. But next season, I see both guys being on about the same level.

Also, who knows what will happen. The age difference is 3 years. It's something, sure, but it's not enormous. Boozer has shown that he can bounce back from injuries because of his strength and durability. If something happens to Bosh's knees... he may lose a lot of ability, because he depends a lot more on athletic ability.

I'm pretty happy having Boozer over Bosh. Both are very good players, that bring a lot to the table, but I believe Boozer complements Noah better than Bosh.

Wait a minute, who is to say that Bosh doesn't have the durability that you credit Boozer for having? Your lauding of Boozer for his ability to bounce back from injuries and then distancing yourself from Bosh because you don't know how he would recover from a serious injury is akin to saying "Carlos Boozer has never had a 747 land on him, so that's great, but man, Chris Bosh, if he gets hit by a jet liner I think he's screwed".

In fact, Bosh has shown that he is in fact more durable than Boozer: Bosh has only once slipped below averaging at least 36 minutes per game (in his rookie season, and even then he still averaged more minutes than Boozer's career average), whereas Boozer hasn't even sniffed 36 minutes per (highest: 34.9 in 2007-08; 32.7 career average).

What's more, Bosh averages 71 starts a season, whereas Boozer averages just under 59 a year. Bosh has shown to be way more durable than Boozer, and because of that, way more valuable, to the tune of 6 more win shares than Boozer in one less season in the league. Jesus Christ put down the damn Kool-Aid, is it really that hard?

We get it, you are really pumped about this Bulls team, and that's great, but your defense of this team in the face of comparison to better players/teams has lead you to say some really stupid shit.

 

[FirstTimer]

A nd Kurt Thomas was a lot better in the playoffs. Whats your point?

That Juwan Howard is the better player.

Riley sold James on being with the heat because he got 3 stars together in south beach. I don't remember hearing the magic angle.

Then please go back and read Adrian Wojo's article after it all went down. ...........

PLEASE.

Not overrating Taj but when they put in on of their old washed up big, we need to put in Taj to spread the floor and run circles around them. Big Z or Juwan Howard aren't going to win agasinst Taj's speed, stamina and athleticism. He is going to get a lot of fast breaks against those guys.

Yes because I'm sure the Heat won't counter with a sub of their own..... I mean really? You don't think the Heat would notice Taj playing the 5 and counter with Haslem or Bosh at the 5? REALLY?

I really don't great your logic. Bosh and Boozer is basically a wash. Bosh might be a little bit better of a player,

So it's not a wash....and I was comparing the depth at the two positions so arguing about Bosh maybe only being "slightly" better than Boozer misses the entire point.

Why the hell does Kurt Thomas really matter? He's going to be playing 4-6 minutes a game.

Kurt Thomas is our back up center. He will be playing more than 4-6 minutes per game.

Taj will be playing Center for about 10-12 minutes a game and he's sure as hell better than Howard, Anthony, Big Z and Magloire

:facepalm:

So Taj is backing up both post positions? That makes our depth worse. The Bulls basically filled out their post roster than with Kurt Thomas...who apparently won't play and Omer Asik...who has never played.

Does anyone here actually watch basketball?

I'm still not sure that they should.

Ok.

Please quit watching basketball, playing basketball, discussing basketball, and writing about basketball.

People wonder why the Chicago fan base is laughed at and taken as a complete joke and responses like this are why.

Rest of NBA fanbase: I'll give you a SF who is just entering his prime and is one of the Top 5-10 players in the league and averages 28ppg 6rpg and 3apg for your oft injured overpaid SF and your center who averages 11ppg and 11rpg.

Bulls fan base: Uhhhhhh.....I don't know....let me think...


Rest of NBA Fan Base: :facepalm:

And that case would be stupid. They are very similar statistically speaking, but Boozer is going to be 29 this season, Bosh is only going to be 26. Boozer has probably reached the upper limits of what he can do, whereas Bosh still has awhile to go before he reaches the peak of his development as a player.

Don't get me wrong, Carlos Boozer is very, very good, but given the choice between him and Chris Bosh, you would be foolish to take Boozer.

Ding...........................

Bosh is arguably the better player right now. He's going to be the better player in the future so why the hell would you not take Bosh?

 

[Lefty]

And people wonder why at times I loathe the respective Chicago sports fanbases. This kind of "I don't know, it's a gamble" stuff as a response to getting a TOP TEN PLAYER IN THE NBA is just embarrassing. Jesus.

 

[Rush]

It's opinion.

You can only argue over fact...not opinion.

 

[Lefty]

So Boozer's v. Bosh's MPG and the study that proves that scoring is way more valuable than rebounding are just happenstance things that are open to subjective interpretation? Something about that doesn't sound right.......

 

[FirstTimer]

So Boozer's v. Bosh's MPG and the study that proves that scoring is way more valuable than rebounding are just happenstance things that are open to subjective interpretation? Something about that doesn't sound right.......

I think Rex Grossman is more durable than Peyton Manning.

I mean we have seen Rex bounce back from injuries 3 or 4 times. Peyton has never done it.