O.J Howard at #3?

[Mdbearz]

Simple math is that if the choice is another position like RB, then you are going to target the RB more...

The value just is not there for a TE/WR types.

 

[dabears70]

https://t.co/iazmdKOjxK

 

[The Hawk]

There are some nice OT talents too that are projected to start coming off the board in the middle of the first to the top of the fourth round also. I do want to see the Bears pick one of the OTs in this draft, especially Bolles if he slips a bit & is still available when the Bears second pick is up. I would love to see QB & OT as the Bears first two picks in that order. It really is time that the Bears address these two positions with young upstart talent, & stop half assing it with filling these two vital positions.

I do hope to see the Bears come away with an offense heavy draft with the QB,OT, &TE (or WR) positions all addressed.

Give this man a cigar, bartender.

 

[CHICAGOMIDWAYMONSTERS]

You do realize that OJ Howard has 7 total TD's in 46 games played and averaged 2.5 receptions and 37 yards per game during his college career and only 3 rec and 39 yards as a senior, so it's not like it is skewed due to his first few years.

Howard will be the ultimate lack of production,draft for potential/combine #'s player in this draft, if he is taken in the first round.

Oh that's right Saban said he under used him in 2015/16 ...and then did it again in 2016/17. Too bad he played for a shitty coach that doesn't know how to utilize players.

And as for him going at #3. Not gonna happen.

Alabama also had Derrick Henry scoring TDs left and right. Plus they blew most of their competition out by half time. No need to pass. Different team, different systems. I look at OJ Howard as a #1 receiving target. Hes basically a #1 WR

 

[CHICAGOMIDWAYMONSTERS]

I'm a big fan of taking legit prototype players with pedigree, production, measurables, and elite coaching.

Adams, Howard, Fournette, Allen, Mike Williams

viewed in that light, are 5 of the most perfect prospects you will ever find. There isn't much you can know. Fournette has a little character ?, Allen has arthritic shoulders a decade away, that some irresponsible GM that wants to draft him decided to focus on with the media to see if they can get them to drop, probably like a San Diego to put him next to Bosa and double down on line dominance. "How do we get Allen to fall to us?" would be a reasonable question in their war room.

I have no problem with drafting the best player at their position at a position of need either. You start trying to project based on undewear how Thomas/Charlton are going to be even better in the pro's than in college is how you find busts. Taking postional value over proven players is how you find busts.

Ignoring clear injury prone sign (Hooker, Lattimore) in guys that need time to learn, is how you find busts. They will be on stretchers by the time they know what they are doing.

If you draft Howard I guarantee you didn't waste the first round. You got something. You got a TE. You have a roster spot for them, they will do more than keep it warm and train for 2 years while they prepare to play d-line or WR or QB that takes time. That TE steps in day 1 and upgrades the 2 deep roster for 4 years minimum value out of the pick. Adds a weapon, a piece that must be accounted for.

there is nothing wrong with taking Howard.

Agreed

 

[iueyedoc]

Fournette is the next BO JACKSON

Alabama also had Derrick Henry scoring TDs left and right. Plus they blew most of their competition out by half time. No need to pass. Different team, different systems. I look at OJ Howard as a #1 receiving target. Hes basically a #1 WR

No he isn't. You guys thinking a guy that averaged 28 receptions and 1.75 TD's per season is going to be a step in and be a #1 target or get 100+ targets are deluded.
Can't wait for the OJ Howard is the next TONY GONZALEZ take.

 

[modo]

No he isn't. You guys thinking a guy that averaged 28 receptions and 1.75 TD's per season is going to be a step in and be a #1 target or get 100+ targets are deluded.
Can't wait for the OJ Howard is the next TONY GONZALEZ take.

If you only base your judgement on college stats I would agree with you.....however...you're wrong.....

Jimmy Graham, for example, played only one year of college ball and had 17 catches...

Athleticism is athleticism.....Howard does not get the dropsies and did everything they asked him to do.....Howard played a lot as a bail out for the QB...He had an impressive YAC, which is what Alabama relied on him to do as the bail out for the QB....

 

[iueyedoc]

If you only base your judgement on college stats I would agree with you.....however...you're wrong.....

Jimmy Graham, for example, played only one year of college ball and had 17 catches...

Athleticism is athleticism.....Howard does not get the dropsies and did everything they asked him to do.....Howard played a lot as a bail out for the QB...He had an impressive YAC, which is what Alabama relied on him to do as the bail out for the QB....

Sure there is always a leap of faith whether a guy put up huge #'s or below par ones like Howard, the NFL is a different beast.

That said, I can't shake that he played for Saban, whom even said after the NC in 2016 that he was under used, but didn't utilize him any more this year. There is a reason a guy like that doesn't show up in games, what it is I don't know, but it is a huge red flag.

As for Graham, he only played one season organized football before being drafted, so he had a lot to learn even after being drafted. Howard has spent his life as a TE.

An athleticism is athleticism does not explain Kellen Davis. He is athletically as close to OJ Howard as anyone.

7 TD's in 46 games as a 6'6" match up nightmare can't be explained away by, "oh they had running backs" or "he lacked a stud QB".
There is something missing in his game and it may be mental, but a guy that has those question marks isn't going to be the highest drafted TE in NFL history.

 

[WindyCity]

Gronk

6'6"
264lbs
4.68 [40]
33" vert
9'11" broad
4.47 shuttle
7.18 3 cone

Howard

6'6"
251lbs
4.51 [40]
30" vert
10'1" broad
4.16 shuttle
6.85 3 cone


Physically Howard may be more impressive.

 

[iueyedoc]

Funny how every year guys on here belittle the combine as the underwear Olympics and then use it later to back up an argument for a player.
Kellen Davis

6'6"
259
4.60 [40]
22 reps
28" vert 34" at pro day
9'10" broad
4.38 shuttle
7.25 3 cone

Howard

6'6"
251lbs
4.51 [40]
22 reps
30" vert
10'1" broad
4.16 shuttle
6.85 3 cone

And as for Gronk, he had 16 TD's, 75 rec and 1200 yards in 22 games, so his athleticism showed up on the field. Still, he was a second round pick.
I will give you he had the legendary Willie Tuitama throwing him the ball, so he did have that advantage.

 

[bamainatlanta]

I'd rather not see the Bears draft Howard in the first because the draft is ridiculously deep in TE talent but it's painfully obvious some here have watched very few Alabama games. His job was to run block. Then it was to pass block. Then run block some more. Then occasionally actually run a route with wildly inaccurate QB's. His teams have always minimized the use of a TE in the passing game. Before Howard, I think Saban has had 2 TE's drafted at Alabama (pretty sure they were both 7th rounders).

 

[WindyCity]

Funny how every year guys on here belittle the combine as the underwear Olympics and then use it later to back up an argument for a player.
Kellen Davis

6'6"
259
4.60 [40]
22 reps
28" vert 34" at pro day
9'10" broad
4.38 shuttle
7.25 3 cone

Howard

6'6"
251lbs
4.51 [40]
22 reps
30" vert
10'1" broad
4.16 shuttle
6.85 3 cone

And as for Gronk, he had 16 TD's, 75 rec and 1200 yards in 22 games, so his athleticism showed up on the field. Still, he was a second round pick.
I will give you he had the legendary Willie Tuitama throwing him the ball, so he did have that advantage.

Physically Howard may be more impressive.

 

[iueyedoc]

I'd rather not see the Bears draft Howard in the first because the draft is ridiculously deep in TE talent but it's painfully obvious some here have watched very few Alabama games. His job was to run block. Then it was to pass block. Then run block some more. Then occasionally actually run a route with wildly inaccurate QB's. His teams have always minimized the use of a TE in the passing game. Before Howard, I think Saban has had 2 TE's drafted at Alabama (pretty sure they were both 7th rounders).

When you are drafting a guy at #3 depth at the position is a secondary issue, as the #3 guy in the draft should be so far better than that depth that he warrants being the 3rd human drafted that year. I am not arguing that Howard doesn't have the skillset to succeed, but to argue a guy that, by your own admission was not much more than a blocking TE, should be considered at #3 is foolish. As well, if you think Saban had a guy that was basically uncoverable at the college level as a redzone target and only was able to get him 7 career TD's in 4 years because of Saban himself, you are bonkers.

And your characterization of wildly inaccurate passers is bs. The QB's during his time averaged over 65% completions and 3400 yards a season and had 110 passing TD's. He caught 7. Excusing his lack of production because he didn't have an NFL starter level QB, if you ignore AJ McCarron, throwing to him is ridiculous.

So, if I have my totals straight, Howard's lack of production is due to:

Derrick Henry,
AJ McCarron
Blake Sims
Jake Cocker
Jalen Hurts
and
Nick Saban.

Am I missing someone?
Maybe we should add in Amari Cooper, he obviously hogged all the good throws while he was at Bama.

 

[iueyedoc]

Physically Howard may be more impressive.

Then I want him for my Battle of the Superstars team.
[video=youtube_share;SGIospD9QRU]https://youtu.be/SGIospD9QRU[/video]

 

[bamainatlanta]

The tight end has never been a particularly huge part of the Alabama passing game. In fact, Howard's 33 receptions in 2015 were the most of any Alabama tight end during the Nick Saban era in Tuscaloosa. But Howard might have been the most-hyped tight end recruit ever, and it wasn't until the final game of his junior year that he truly showed his gigantic talent. Without Howard, Alabama might not beat Clemson, so I'm sure Tide fans will certainly say, "Better late than never."

"O.J., quite honestly, should have been more involved all year long," Saban said. "Sometimes he was open and we didn't get him the ball. But I think the last two games have been breakout games for him in terms of what he's capable of and what he can do. I would say it's bad coaching on my part that he didn't have the opportunity to do that all year long."

And while Howard boosted his numbers by running free against a confused Clemson secondary a time or two, the fact that he was even running routes was a positive sign. Howard's most noteworthy contributions had been his blocking until Monday night



Funny how you think all of the short passes that Coker/Sims/Hurts threw qualifies them as "accurate." I've watched every Alabama game the last 4years. It was quite amazing to see all of the easy deep throws his QB's had to make when there wasn't a defender within 5yds of the intended target. Usually happens when you have a defense scared of your running game and a play action easily resulted in big plays. Again, this is a deep draft for TE's. Pace could do better with a mid round TE pick in this draft than to use it on a TE in the 1st. But you can't collerate Howard's future NFL production because of his deflated stats in an offense that utilizes TE's more often as a 6th Olineman.

 

[MrOuija]

Sure there is always a leap of faith whether a guy put up huge #'s or below par ones like Howard, the NFL is a different beast.

That said, I can't shake that he played for Saban, whom even said after the NC in 2016 that he was under used, but didn't utilize him any more this year. There is a reason a guy like that doesn't show up in games, what it is I don't know, but it is a huge red flag.

As for Graham, he only played one season organized football before being drafted, so he had a lot to learn even after being drafted. Howard has spent his life as a TE.

An athleticism is athleticism does not explain Kellen Davis. He is athletically as close to OJ Howard as anyone.

7 TD's in 46 games as a 6'6" match up nightmare can't be explained away by, "oh they had running backs" or "he lacked a stud QB".
There is something missing in his game and it may be mental, but a guy that has those question marks isn't going to be the highest drafted TE in NFL history.

Kellen Davis was a stiff though, that's not a good example. Despite his straight line speed he was a guy who ran straight up and down, and had no wiggle or agility. I feel like Howard will be one of these guys that's alot better in the pros simply because he'll be the focus of an offense in a way no TE would ever have been at Bama. Does that mean he's a top 5 pick? Probably not, but he could be a steal for someone top 15.

 

[iueyedoc]

Kellen Davis was a stiff though, that's not a good example. Despite his straight line speed he was a guy who ran straight up and down, and had no wiggle or agility. I feel like Howard will be one of these guys that's alot better in the pros simply because he'll be the focus of an offense in a way no TE would ever have been at Bama. Does that mean he's a top 5 pick? Probably not, but he could be a steal for someone top 15.

He had better be better in the pros. If he is drafted top 15 and has 7 TD's and similar averages after 4 seasons of play he would be a huge bust.

I think he would have to be a perennial pro bowler to be a steal inside the top 15. Let's say he ends up being Greg Olsen 2.0, would you consider that as a steal? I would say any first rnd TE should be expected to play at that level.

Vernon Davis and Kellen Winslow Jr are the only recent TE's drafted inside the top 10.
Davis: 505-6424 57TD's
Winslow: 469-5236 25TD's
Neither one of those, I would consider steals or even good picks, Davis has the seventh most receiving yards in NFL history for a TE.
TE is still not a value position. To be a top 15 esp top 3 pick, he need be a generational player.

 

[bamainatlanta]

OJ Howard would be a steal in the late first but not so much in the top 10, especially the top 5

 

[bufordht]

The question isn't really will be produce enough to be with the 3rd pick. It's how does he compare to the guys you're passing up at 3. Also, who could you get in the 2nd or 3rd? I.e, does Adams/Engram produce more than Howard/Obiwan or some other 2nd tier safety. This draft is a tough one. There are some great prospects at lower valued positions and not great prospects at DE/LT/QB.

 

[CHICAGOMIDWAYMONSTERS]

Sure there is always a leap of faith whether a guy put up huge #'s or below par ones like Howard, the NFL is a different beast.

That said, I can't shake that he played for Saban, whom even said after the NC in 2016 that he was under used, but didn't utilize him any more this year. There is a reason a guy like that doesn't show up in games, what it is I don't know, but it is a huge red flag.

As for Graham, he only played one season organized football before being drafted, so he had a lot to learn even after being drafted. Howard has spent his life as a TE.

An athleticism is athleticism does not explain Kellen Davis. He is athletically as close to OJ Howard as anyone.

7 TD's in 46 games as a 6'6" match up nightmare can't be explained away by, "oh they had running backs" or "he lacked a stud QB".
There is something missing in his game and it may be mental, but a guy that has those question marks isn't going to be the highest drafted TE in NFL history.

Alabama beat almost everyone at halftime. They didn't need to throw the ball.