**OFFICAIL** Bears 2024 Regular Season News & Schleisse - FTO Preferred - No ALTS! Derailing Is Discouraged!

[pdxbearsfan]

How high a draft pick do you think Murray would fetch? After Russ, I think teams would be more cautious in going all in for Murray

Maybe a 3rd at best with his contract. Everyone knows he's a mental midget and not a great leader, not much market for that combo.

 

[pdxbearsfan]

I also doubt that retirement was really much of consideration for two reasons:

1. The money that he would have had to walk away from
2. It would most likely put him in the same HoF class as Brady, and imo, his ego did not want that - to be the 2nd qb in the class

Agree, Rodgers couldn't handle that #2 in his class.

 

[TL1961]

I won't be shocked if one of those teams that won 5 or fewer last year wins 10 or more next season.

I won't be shocked if it is the Bears.

But I laughed at Brett Kollman's "statistically speaking....one team probably wins 10 or more".

"Statistically speaking", Brett? Explain.

 

[TL1961]

No I responded to his dismissive comment by offering one of my own. I asked a basic question of what options did the Jets have better than Rodgers and he decided to ignore the question most likely because he didnt have an answer. If you going to claim the Jets had all this leverage you should at least be able to offer up an alternative just as good or better than adding Rodgers.


Show me a supposed franchise QB traded for a 4th rounder. I am simply saying your idea of value doesnt agree with the reality of what teams give up to acquire potential franchise QBs.

Obviously my comment about Bucs fans was hyperbole. The point is most fans are quite happy and if you are saying you would rather be the Bears vs the Bucs you are lying to yourself.

There is nothing that was bought. This is not MLB or the NBA were there is no hard cap. The NFL has the same cap for all teams and the Bucs assembled that team using that cap.

When people refer to buying a championship it usually refers to a team like the Yankees or say the Lakers who can spend more than other teams to try and win. It is misapplied to a situation where the Bucs spent within the cap. With the TV deal no team is restricted in teams of cap spend. The NFL is the fairest league in that regard.



Obviously my comment was hyperbole. It is just delusional for fans of a franchise that hasnt won a SB since 1985 to pretend there would be some great angst if Brady had come to the Bears and delivered a SB. The vast majority of fans would not give a shit and no one would care about those that did.

The Bucs won within the same salary cap parameters of the other 31 teams.

Stepping into the Vortex......

The whole trade scenario only exists if Arizona drafts a QB and Kyler is on the block.

If that happens, it means the team that knows him best has determined he is not a franchise QB, yet your whole premise on the return he will bring is based on the "trade of a franchise QB".

What did they get for Josh Rosen?

 

[bamainatlanta]

Stepping into the Vortex......

The whole trade scenario only exists if Arizona drafts a QB and Kyler is on the block.

If that happens, it means the team that knows him best has determined he is not a franchise QB, yet your whole premise on the return he will bring is based on the "trade of a franchise QB".

What did they get for Josh Rosen?

62nd pick I believe.

 

[TL1961]

No I am not saying that at all. You have it backwards. I am saying if he is perceived as a franchise QB he will likely cost franchise QB compensation.

Trades occur in the NFL where previous trades impact future trades just as previous contracts impact future contracts. Teams are aware of what comparable players have been traded or signed for and it factors into the compensation they ask for or are willing to offer. That is how market dynamics work. How else do you think the market determines value? Magic?

If 1 team views him as a franchise level QB they should not automatically give up more than what Wentz got. What is more likely is when it is all said and done they will likely have to give up similar value because it is unlikely only one team will be interested and it is unlikely the Cards are going to eat all that money to give him away for cheap.

If the Cards draft a rookie QB they can still keep Murray as that rookie will be on a rookie contract. Murray's dead cap is 97m for 23 and 81m for 24. They save some of that if they trade him but not enough to make it worthwhile to sell him off cheap.

So there are any number of variables here which is why in the end these guys tend to go for more than fans expect. Same thing happened with Rodgers. GB werent going to accept less when they have to eat a fuck ton of money that would be more than his actual cap hit if they kept him.

The Cards CAN keep Murray if they draft QB Top 5, but they won't.

You're not using a Top 5 pick on a QB to continue playing Murray. And you're not paying Murray to sit on the bench and be a distraction/disgruntled teammate.

Drafting a QB and keeping Murray is getting the worst possible return on your assets and inviting a QB controversy. It simply will not happen.

 

[TL1961]

What did Cleveland get for Johnny Manziel?

What did the Jets get for Zach Wilson?

 

[bamainatlanta]

The Cards CAN keep Murray if they draft QB Top 5, but they won't.

You're not using a Top 5 pick on a QB to continue playing Murray. And you're not paying Murray to sit on the bench and be a distraction/disgruntled teammate.

Drafting a QB and keeping Murray is getting the worst possible return on your assets and inviting a QB controversy. It simply will not happen.

Imagine how big of a bitch Murray will be if Arizona drafts a QB and keeps him.

 

[remydat]

Stepping into the Vortex......

The whole trade scenario only exists if Arizona drafts a QB and Kyler is on the block.

If that happens, it means the team that knows him best has determined he is not a franchise QB, yet your whole premise on the return he will bring is based on the "trade of a franchise QB".

What did they get for Josh Rosen?

That was true of the Eagles when they traded Wentz and they still got a 1st for him.

And Rosen proves my point. They got a 2nd for a QB with just 55%, 11 TDs and 14 Ints and people are suggesting Murray goes for a 4th. LMFAO.

Murray has almost a 67% completion rate and 2 to 1 TD to Int ratio so no a 4th is likely out of the question.

What did Cleveland get for Johnny Manziel?

What did the Jets get for Zach Wilson?

Do either of these guys have 67% completion and 2 to 1 TD to Int ratio? You are comparing apples and oranges.

The Cards CAN keep Murray if they draft QB Top 5, but they won't.

You're not using a Top 5 pick on a QB to continue playing Murray. And you're not paying Murray to sit on the bench and be a distraction/disgruntled teammate.

Drafting a QB and keeping Murray is getting the worst possible return on your assets and inviting a QB controversy. It simply will not happen.

They are not keeping him forever. they would hold onto him until they got a trade that made it worth eating all that dead money.

Why would you eat 80m in dead cap when he is cheaper to keep? The reason they wont have to keep him for long is because someone is going to pay the asking price for a QB with 67% completion and a 2 to 1 TD to Int ratio to make eating all that dead money worth it. We now this because teams have been playing such prices pretty much every time a relatively good QB is available.

 

[Aquineas]

Looking forward to a few things:
1. Training camp in just over two weeks (26th)
2. Kids back to school second week of August
3. Baldur's Gate 3 on August 3rd.
4. Tropical Storm to finally knock out this wicked heat.
5. Oppenheimer coming out on July 21st

 

[cameronkrazie86]

Looking forward to a few things:
1. Training camp in just over two weeks (26th)
2. Kids back to school second week of August
3. Baldur's Gate 3 on August 3rd.
4. Tropical Storm to finally knock out this wicked heat.
5. Oppenheimer coming out on July 21st

I've never been jealous of a tropical storm system coming in but it's supposed to be 117 degrees on Sunday and 110+ for about 10 days in a row starting Thursday so yeah, a tropical storm sounds nice lol

 

[number51]

I've never been jealous of a tropical storm system coming in but it's supposed to be 117 degrees on Sunday and 110+ for about 10 days in a row starting Thursday so yeah, a tropical storm sounds nice lol

Pool days!

 

[Spitta Andretti]

I've never been jealous of a tropical storm system coming in but it's supposed to be 117 degrees on Sunday and 110+ for about 10 days in a row starting Thursday so yeah, a tropical storm sounds nice lol

Where is this heat happening?

 

[gallagher]

Looking forward to a few things:
3. Baldur's Gate 3 on August 3rd.

I am an old DnD head and I am quite excited for this. I got my nephews into DnD, and now they are getting me into a video game.

 

[Payton!34]

The poster was suggesting GB had all or most of the leverage. I am saying you have to look at the situation from both sides. GB had more leverage than the poster is saying because the Jets are in win now mode and Rodgers represented their best chance at contending for a title. That translates into GB having leverage. Hence when I asked what was the alternative for the Jets I was met with silence.

Likewise, the Cards would have more leverage than you think because:

1. A team might view Murray as their best chance at winning now and thus will be willing to pay for that;

2. The Cards will have to eat a fuck ton of dead cap in a Murray trade so no reason to do so unless they get something good;

3. Even if they sign a rookie they can carry a rookie QB on a rookie contract and Murray for some period of time and wait teams out as they are rebuilding and in no rush. A team trading for Murray is likely trying to win now and would want Murray in house in time to learn the offense and new teammates;

So there is really nothing wrong with Zona's bargaining position as they would not be forced to trade Murray. They would be willing to trade him at a price that makes sense for them. You dont eat 97m or 81m in dead cap for a 4th round pick. You are better off keeping him and waiting for a despearate team to come along or for him to get healthy and prove himself.



And I am saying that is not getting more than they should. That is market dynamics at work. If his demand goes up because teams are "desperate" then his cost goes up. If the supply of potential franchise QBs is limited then his cost goes up. That is how a market works.

What you are calling "desperation" is really the supply of potentially good QBs being outstripped by the demand for them. When demand > supply the end result is a higher cost. That is not "desperation" but basic economics.

Ok, well said. I just didn’t want to be painted as saying that Murray is only worth a fourth.

It’s difficult to make one’s complete point in a short post and at times people come to different conclusions on what they’ve read.

If this was easy, we would have tort reform and arguments in court as to what or how the law reads.

You’re obviously well written and more than likely intelligent. I don’t disagree with you on virtually everything bc anything could or will happen in this situation. The QB position is the great equalizer and rules can be thrown out of the window.

In simple terms, I help companies get the best deals in a variety of situations and positions and to me, Arizona is in the lesser position without regard as to how good any one GM or owner believes he is bc I don’t have this info.

It would be my opinion to give at most a fourth given what I know about Murray and his production (but I’m not a professional scout or football analytic) I think I’m good at it at my level but if a team does make a move for more than that- I would guess that organization is probably worse for the wear bc they shouldn’t have to!

I thank you for having an intellectual debate that has been well executed on your part. I have I think made myself clear that I didn’t disagree with you early on only that I never thought or said he is only worth a fourth. That was my only disagreement between us.

Keep making your points brother bears fan!

 

[remydat]

Ok, well said. I just didn’t want to be painted as saying that Murray is only worth a fourth.

It’s difficult to make one’s complete point in a short post and at times people come to different conclusions on what they’ve read.

If this was easy, we would have tort reform and arguments in court as to what or how the law reads.

You’re obviously well written and more than likely intelligent. I don’t disagree with you on virtually everything bc anything could or will happen in this situation. The QB position is the great equalizer and rules can be thrown out of the window.

In simple terms, I help companies get the best deals in a variety of situations and positions and to me, Arizona is in the lesser position without regard as to how good any one GM or owner believes he is bc I don’t have this info.

It would be my opinion to give at most a fourth given what I know about Murray and his production (but I’m not a professional scout or football analytic) I think I’m good at it at my level but if a team does make a move for more than that- I would guess that organization is probably worse for the wear bc they shouldn’t have to!

I thank you for having an intellectual debate that has been well executed on your part. I have I think made myself clear that I didn’t disagree with you early on only that I never thought or said he is only worth a fourth. That was my only disagreement between us.

Keep making your points brother bears fan!

To be clear I am not saying I would personally give up a ton of picks for Murray either. I am just saying based on past QB trades it is more likely that someone will give up more for him.

In a quick post I perhaps come off more blunt or abrasive than intended or dont fully articulate the nuances of your point.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Murray will easily fetch a first and then some. My money is on the Atlanta Falcons or TB Bucs. Detroit might get involved once they finally figure out Goff is a limited QB

 

[Hawkeye OG]

Murray will easily fetch a first and then some. My money is on the Atlanta Falcons or TB Bucs. Detroit might get involved once they finally figure out Goff is a limited QB

@nc0gnet0

 

[nc0gnet0]

Murray will easily fetch a first and then some. My money is on the Atlanta Falcons or TB Bucs. Detroit might get involved once they finally figure out Goff is a limited QB

If that did in fact happen, pretty sure Detroit would give Hendon Hooker a try first. No way in hell they would pursue Murrey.

 

[cameronkrazie86]

Where is this heat happening?

Here in Vegas. It's supposed to be crazy hot this weekend into early next weekend. Exhibit A why I'm glad they went the dome route for the football stadium because it is miserable once you start getting above 110. Next weekend, it very well may stay above 100 degrees at night, it's crazy.