**OFFICAIL** Bears 2024 Regular Season News & Schleisse - FTO Preferred - No ALTS! Derailing Is Discouraged!

[BaBaBlacksheep]

So, I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how things work. I do agree that more interest = higher price. But players don't think as if they are going to get injured or that the money won't be there next year.

Basically, the hometown team has to pay for that player to give up hitting the open market and having all those interested parties to compete with. Roquan just signed an extension with Baltimore. He has no loyalty there. He was there 2 months before they signed him. They had to pay him what he would have made on the open market.

Not saying Mooney wouldn't take a sure deal now, because I don't know the man, but he'd be very stupid if he did. You're example is a 20M difference over 4 years. He's not losing 20M because he's scared he's going to get hurt. A player literally died on the field and players still don't think that could happen to them. Players get hurt and paid all the time. Dak got his money, post major injury, and by not taking a shitty discount.

For fucks sake. It was round easy numbers to illustrate a point.

 

[rawdawg]

For fucks sake. It was round easy numbers to illustrate a point.

Yes, I understand that. The logic still applies. I also typed 250 other words that you ignored.

 

[iueyedoc]

So, I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how things work. I do agree that more interest = higher price. But players don't think as if they are going to get injured or that the money won't be there next year.

Basically, the hometown team has to pay for that player to give up hitting the open market and having all those interested parties to compete with. Roquan just signed an extension with Baltimore. He has no loyalty there. He was there 2 months before they signed him. They had to pay him what he would have made on the open market.

Not saying Mooney wouldn't take a sure deal now, because I don't know the man, but he'd be very stupid if he did. You're example is a 20M difference over 4 years. He's not losing 20M because he's scared he's going to get hurt. A player literally died on the field and players still don't think that could happen to them. Players get hurt and paid all the time. Dak got his money, post major injury, and by not taking a shitty discount.

I think you are over-simplifying it. Players undoubtedly know there is risk of never playing again every play.
Johnny Knox, who happens to be built very much like Darnell Mooney, is a prime example of how quickly a career can end and is an example of a guy that missed out on that golden ticket, while Tarik Cohen is the the poster child of why you take an early extension.

If they came to Mooney with a 3 yr extension at $12M, he would have to think long and hard about signing. And saying he would be losing money and just wait to get a 4yr/$60m deal one, that is presuming he puts up numbers at that value and ignores that if he does the extension, he is getting to FA again at 29 vs 31 which makes him more money on the back end.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

49ers defensive lineman Charles Omenihu is arrested on suspicion of domestic violence

The 49ers have an off-field issue to contend with, as they prepare for their biggest on-field moment of the year.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1617927414063194112

 

[rawdawg]

I think you are over-simplifying it. Players undoubtedly know there is risk of never playing again every play.
Johnny Knox, who happens to be built very much like Darnell Mooney, is a prime example of how quickly a career can end and is an example of a guy that missed out on that golden ticket, while Tarik Cohen is the the poster child of why you take an early extension.

If they came to Mooney with a 3 yr extension at $12M, he would have to think long and hard about signing. And saying he would be losing money and just wait to get a 4yr/$60m deal one, that is presuming he puts up numbers at that value and ignores that if he does the extension, he is getting to FA again at 29 vs 31 which makes him more money on the back end.

There's a bunch of examples of players whose careers end early. Neither of the examples you gave are even a little bit relevant. Knox was on a rookie deal, not eligible for contract. Cohen already signed a contract when you got hurt. He didn't take an "early" extension. He took a fair market value extension at that time. I give real examples of players who didn't take early extensions. I took a real examples of players who signed when they got fair market value to keep them from hitting the market.

And IDK if you are just pulling numbers out of your ass as well, just as an example, but there's literally ZERO chance Mooney signs for 12M/year. He's been the team's #1 WR for 2 years and been paid pennies (relatively) as a 5th round pick. He wants his big pay day. He doesn't give 2 shits that Johnny Knox got hurt 10 years ago.

And YES it IS presuming he puts up numbers. That's what players do. A player isn't going to say, "well, I might suck this year, I better take what I can get now." The team praised Mooney all summer when the GM and coach met him, they praised him all season. It'd be a slap in the face to him if they paid him less than market value. Mooney is not taking Nelson Agholor money because he wants security. He's confident enough that he will get his money if he plays the way he always has.

 

[bamainatlanta]

For fucks sake. It was round easy numbers to illustrate a point.

No you said it was for $10 million

 

[Dejo]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1617927414063194112

 

[iueyedoc]

There's a bunch of examples of players whose careers end early. Neither of the examples you gave are even a little bit relevant. Knox was on a rookie deal, not eligible for contract. Cohen already signed a contract when you got hurt. He didn't take an "early" extension.

Knox was 2 games away from being eligible for an extension and is an example of just how tenuous an NFL career can be and Cohen did take an early extension he signed a 3 yr extension going into the last yr of his rookie contract that ended up making him millions of dollars he otherwise would have never seen had he played out his rookie deal.

If you think that a guy that has made around $2.5 M over three seasons just declines a $15M signing bonus check and say $7M more guaranteed without a thought, you are living in a world not based in reality.

And what does this even mean?

Basically, the hometown team has to pay for that player to give up hitting the open market and having all those interested parties to compete with.

If they agree to a deal before the player hits the open market, why would they have to pay more?
FFS, they have an exact mechanism called the transition tag just for that purpose that would allow them to pay that player exactly what he is worth on the open market without risk of losing him.

I mean if you ignore almost every simiar situation and fact that points to the opposite, your argument seems true, but it just isn't.

I don't have any idea what Poles or Mooney value his skills at, but I can guarantee you if he signs an extension this offseason it will be for less than both he and Poles think they could get on the open market after next season and will be a compromise between value and security.

 

[maxhatter]

I think you are over-simplifying it. Players undoubtedly know there is risk of never playing again every play.
Johnny Knox, who happens to be built very much like Darnell Mooney, is a prime example of how quickly a career can end and is an example of a guy that missed out on that golden ticket, while Tarik Cohen is the the poster child of why you take an early extension.

If they came to Mooney with a 3 yr extension at $12M, he would have to think long and hard about signing. And saying he would be losing money and just wait to get a 4yr/$60m deal one, that is presuming he puts up numbers at that value and ignores that if he does the extension, he is getting to FA again at 29 vs 31 which makes him more money on the back end.

I was trying to make this point in an earlier post, but the Bears are in a good position to make a very competitive offer that is also team friendly. They could offer Mooney a 3-year $45 Million contract with a $24M signing bonus and $33.9M in total guarantees. This is less than what Kirk, Dionte Johnson, McLaurin, Godwin, and Renfrow receive on average annually, but the signing bonus and a total guarantee are in line, or slightly better than what the others received. Christian Kirk, $20,000,000 signing bonus, $37,000,000 guaranteed, Dionte Johnson, $17,500,000 signing bonus, $27,000,000 guaranteed, Terry McLaurin, $28,000,000 signing bonus, $53,154,000 guaranteed, Chris Godwin, $18,750,000 signing bonus, $40,000,000 guaranteed, Hunter Renfrow, $9,180,000 signing bonus, $21,000,000 guaranteed, However, the cap hit would be $9M in 2023 and $13M in 2024, 2025, & 2026. (as an example) That cap hit is more manageable and in line with a #2 or #3 receiver.

 

[rawdawg]

Knox was 2 games away from being eligible for an extension and is an example of just how tenuous an NFL career can be and Cohen did take an early extension he signed a 3 yr extension going into the last yr of his rookie contract that ended up making him millions of dollars he otherwise would have never seen had he played out his rookie deal.

If you think that a guy that has made around $2.5 M over three seasons just declines a $15M signing bonus check and say $7M more guaranteed without a thought, you are living in a world not based in reality.

And what does this even mean?

If they agree to a deal before the player hits the open market, why would they have to pay more?
FFS, they have an exact mechanism called the transition tag just for that purpose that would allow them to pay that player exactly what he is worth on the open market without risk of losing him.

I mean if you ignore almost every simiar situation and fact that points to the opposite, your argument seems true, but it just isn't.

I don't have any idea what Poles or Mooney value his skills at, but I can guarantee you if he signs an extension this offseason it will be for less than both he and Poles think they could get on the open market after next season and will be a compromise between value and security.

And again, I don't care how tenuous a career can be. Players know that, and don't care either. Roquan didn't care when he turned down the Bears offer. Allen Robinson didn't. Lamar Jackson didn't when he turned down 133M guaranteed a couple months ago. And he didn't come crawling back to the Ravens for that deal after he actually hurt his knee as a mobile QB. Why? Because they all knew/thought they could get contracts they wanted. Guys decline tons of money ALL the time, I just gave you 3 examples. Pretty much every player that's worth a damn turns down money from their current team for a bigger payday on the open market.

Why would Mooney take less than he thinks he can get on the open market? What about that statement you made makes any sense to you?

Who cares about the transition tag? It's not used very much at all. Name another time other than Kyle Fuller when a player was on one.

And I didn't say they have to pay more than they're worth, which you seem to be talking about. I said they have to pay more than a team friendly discount. Because players are giving up the opportunity to hit the open market, they are compensated for that. It's called opportunity cost, ironically enough. Cooper Kupp made 7M his first 4 years, then he signed what at the time was highest WR AAV in the league at 26.7M. Do you think that's a discounted rate? Or is that the rate of a top WR in the league that another team would pay him if he ever hit the market?

 

[rawdawg]

I was trying to make this point in an earlier post, but the Bears are in a good position to make a very competitive offer that is also team friendly. They could offer Mooney a 3-year $45 Million contract with a $24M signing bonus and $33.9M in total guarantees. This is less than what Kirk, Dionte Johnson, McLaurin, Godwin, and Renfrow receive on average annually, but the signing bonus and a total guarantee are in line, or slightly better than what the others received. Christian Kirk, $20,000,000 signing bonus, $37,000,000 guaranteed, Dionte Johnson, $17,500,000 signing bonus, $27,000,000 guaranteed, Terry McLaurin, $28,000,000 signing bonus, $53,154,000 guaranteed, Chris Godwin, $18,750,000 signing bonus, $40,000,000 guaranteed, Hunter Renfrow, $9,180,000 signing bonus, $21,000,000 guaranteed, However, the cap hit would be $9M in 2023 and $13M in 2024, 2025, & 2026. (as an example) That cap hit is more manageable and in line with a #2 or #3 receiver.

Yes, now all you have to do is get Darnell Mooney to agree that he's just a #2 WR and not the leading WR for the Bears for the last 2 years and the only player with established chemistry with the QB, who can't get that much on the open market if he just waits a year. Good luck with that.

 

[remydat]

Ok too many blanket statements. Some players will try and get the most money they can. Others may value security or the relationships they have built on a team more.

We don't know which bucket Mooney falls into but the key is likely the relationship he has with Fields and how much he believes in what they are building together.

Another consideration is Mooney is smaller and so the injury risk may be a bigger factor for him than it is for a bigger WR. We simply don't know.

Personally if I were him I would probably take a 13-15m deal now. If I were Claypool I would probably gamble more on being able to hold up a full year next year and put up better numbers.

 

[maxhatter]

Yes, now all you have to do is get Darnell Mooney to agree that he's just a #2 WR and not the leading WR for the Bears for the last 2 years and the only player with established chemistry with the QB, who can't get that much on the open market if he just waits a year. Good luck with that.

If it makes you feel better you can add a fourth year to the contract at $25M giving him a 4-year $70M contract with an average annual salary of $17.9M. Keep the $24M signing bonus and $33.9M total guarantees as long as all those guarantees are taken before the final year of the contract. It's how contracts get inflated all the time. Players care about total guarantees, and teams care about cap hits

 

[pdxbearsfan]

You can do pretty well but again it depends on how free agency plays...

You can get a true number 1 WR: DeAndre Hopkins, Odell Beckham Jr, MIchael Thomas, DJ Moore

Fix the RT position: Mike McGlinchney, Kaleb McGary

Get a real Center: Ethan Pocic, Bozeman, Bradbury, McGovern

Upgrade Tight End: Mike Gesicki, Dalton Schultz

Defense is suspect I don't know what difference makes you see, Javon Hargrave will probably stick with Eagles while they are competitive, Commanders refused to trade Daron Payne showing strong interest in bringing him back, Dalvin Tomlinson might hit free agency but he'll probably be the best DT to hit FA.

I'd take Evan Engram that you didn't list as a TE.

 

[rawdawg]

If it makes you feel better you can add a fourth year to the contract at $25M giving him a 4-year $70M contract with an average annual salary of $17.9M. Keep the $24M signing bonus and $33.9M total guarantees as long as all those guarantees are taken before the final year of the contract. It's how contracts get inflated all the time. Players care about total guarantees, and teams care about cap hits

I think that's a lot better deal, yes. I agree with the SB and guarantees being most important, but AAV matters as well.

 

[Spitta Andretti]

It was average. (So far). Kyler really disappointed. If Braxton develops though it has potential to be great.

Free agency was a huge bust though

Claypool is incomplete

We really gonna call small free agent acquisitions busts though? Not really any big deals given out in year 1 so don't know what you expected to find on 1 and 2 year deals

 

[pdxbearsfan]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1617927414063194112

I think Jones has a bright future with Bears as the LT.

 

[bamainatlanta]

I'd take Evan Engram that you didn't list as a TE.

He looked ducking great down the stretch. Seems he finally put it together but as the Saturday night broadcast indicated, they mentioned he’s really just a big WR and not a TE.

 

[rawdawg]

Ok too many blanket statements. Some players will try and get the most money they can. Others may value security or the relationships they have built on a team more.

We don't know which bucket Mooney falls into but the key is likely the relationship he has with Fields and how much he believes in what they are building together.

Another consideration is Mooney is smaller and so the injury risk may be a bigger factor for him than it is for a bigger WR. We simply don't know.

Personally if I were him I would probably take a 13-15m deal now. If I were Claypool I would probably gamble more on being able to hold up a full year next year and put up better numbers.

Then name them. Name the players who have valued security and relationships over money. I'm talking about players who clearly could have gotten more on the open market, but took a less than market value deal to stay with their team. Other than Tom Brady, who is literally unique in every situation, name just a couple players. I've named several from this organization alone who haven't valued security and relationships.