dabears70
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Yep.Don't pooh pooh the 240 yards per game stat.
I'd say that Josh Allen was a known project coming out of college. He was drafted because of his size and arm strength, and it was clear he needed work being a polished passer. His career completion percentage in college was 56% vs Fields 68%. I'd also note that Allen showed rushing ability in college and his best year of rushing was better than Fields' - 523 to 484. Point being Allen was drafted on raw ability where Fields was already considered NFL ready.Did you believe that Josh Allen could improve in Buffalo?
If so, what is the difference in the two situations (not arguing, just curious on your take)?
So that sounds like a lot of context that doesnt exactly answer the question, but I appreciate the difference.I'd say that Josh Allen was a known project coming out of college. He was drafted because of his size and arm strength, and it was clear he needed work being a polished passer. His career completion percentage in college was 56% vs Fields 68%. I'd also note that Allen showed rushing ability in college and his best year of rushing was better than Fields' - 523 to 484. Point being Allen was drafted on raw ability where Fields was already considered NFL ready.
I cannot help but think that Fields should have shown a lot more at this point in his career outside of rushing ability. He was ahead of Josh Allen as far as being a polished QB that was supposedly NFL ready.
Because Fields was closer to his ceiling coming in.How about push this one in a direction - If Josh Allen can improve by 1000-1500 yards in the air in an offseason through hard work and dedication to his craft, why the doubt that Fields would be able to improve by that range?
Im a Bears fan so was not following the development of Allen so didnt have any opinion on him. As I said I generally believe that anyone can improve but I watched every game of Fields and way too many times his refusal to throw the ball to an open guy was extremely concerning. So my faith that Fields is going to be able to overcome his inability to mentally process whats happening on the field is very low. And if the QB cant do that, they dont stay a starting QB for very long.Did you believe that Josh Allen could improve in Buffalo?
If so, what is the difference in the two situations (not arguing, just curious on your take)?
We are optimistic that the QB we have can make a difference and improve through hard work. Nothing about a player's progress is bound to happen but we can enjoy the ride while we find out.Because Fields was closer to his ceiling coming in.
And also, why do we always think our QBs are going to have a historic turnaround like Fields to Allen, Trubisky to Drew Brees. Just because it's happened twice doesn't mean it's likely. I'd also add that Lamar Jackson was a raw prospect coming in too.
BTW, we had this same conversation during Mitch Trubisky's offseason going into year 3. After Mitch's 3,200 yard performance you thought he was a shoe-in for 4k or very close - he regressed.
I completely agree. I think these terms are bullshit, but I decided to use them because it's commonplace on CCS and it would simplify me getting my point across.We are optimistic that the QB we have can make a difference and improve through hard work. Nothing about a player's progress is bound to happen but we can enjoy the ride while we find out.
This idea of a player's ceiling is another item that I take issue with. It feels like nonsense that we give life to by all agreeing that it exists. What is their "ceiling" and how close do they have to be to it to be a successful QB? Does any QB reach their ceiling? Did Mahomes hit his yet? Can someone top their ceiling? If he doesnt reach his ceiling, can he still win a superbowl? If one person in 2018 said that Allen's ceiling was to become Tim Tebow II, and another person said that Allen's ceiling was to be a QB that consistently takes his team to the playoffs and win games, who was right after the 2019 season?
These are all rhetorical of course, I am not expecting answers, just explaining why I dont think this concept of a ceiling is anything more than a meaningless phrase that gets batted around when we compare draft prospects.
Yeah, it got real annoying seeing WRs wide open on every play.Im a Bears fan so was not following the development of Allen so didnt have any opinion on him. As I said I generally believe that anyone can improve but I watched every game of Fields and way too many times his refusal to throw the ball to an open guy was extremely concerning. So my faith that Fields is going to be able to overcome his inability to mentally process whats happening on the field is very low. And if the QB cant do that, they dont stay a starting QB for very long.
Now its completely possible that Fields was just overwhelmed last year and things will start to click for him this year, lots of QBs take a big step forward in year 3, Allen throw for 4500 yards and Fields said he is going to throw for 4000 so we will see how it goes for him.
except that it did, lots of breakdowns all last year of guys open and fields not throwing the ball.Yeah, it got real annoying seeing WRs wide open on every play.
Oh wait, that almost never happened.
Bears got WRs with 4 second 40 yard dash times...and it almost NEVER happened that anyone was open.Yeah, it got real annoying seeing WRs wide open on every play.
Oh wait, that almost never happened.
Still there? What suggests he ever had NFL starter talent? One great season against FCS talent? Surrounded by a lifetime of not throwing a totality of another seasons worth of passes? His single NFL game with over 3 throws that he completed more than 52% of his passes? It's way more likely his talent was being 10X's the athlete of other FCS players not raw NFL quality QB talent.Yes that was precisely my point.
I think the talent is still there for him to turn it around but yes likely not getting a huge 2nd contract at this point unless Purdy gets injured. Crazy to think he was basically paid 100k per college attempt ie 318 attempts x 100k is 31.8m.
Fields/Peyton Manning? Do you even watch football?Fields may end up as a Peyton Manning-type, passing-wise: throws the occasional ugly int, but will pass for so many darn yards and tds it absolutely will not fucking matter.
Feet are slow. Throw was awful.
No, @Anytime23 told you all that he was better than Pace(should have been common sense) and that he’s regarded as the best GM in the NFL by people who cover the league.
except that it did, lots of breakdowns all last year of guys open and fields not throwing the ball.
No, @Anytime23 told you all that he was better than Pace(should have been common sense) and that he’s regarded as the best GM in the NFL by people who cover the league.
Sorry that your favorite Gm was a failure.
How do you know Fields was closer to his ceiling?Because Fields was closer to his ceiling coming in.
And also, why do we always think our QBs are going to have a historic turnaround like Fields to Allen, Trubisky to Drew Brees? Just because it's happened twice doesn't mean it's likely. I'd also add that Lamar Jackson was a raw prospect coming in too.
BTW, we had this same conversation during Mitch Trubisky's offseason going into year 3. After Mitch's 3,200 yard performance you thought he was a shoe-in for 4k or very close - he regressed.
This idea of a player's ceiling is another item that I take issue with. It feels like nonsense that we give life to by all agreeing that it exists.
LOL. Thanks youz for yourin usin' wordz you thunk is bull poo so us simpl CCS fellers can understood. You be an stand up feller @Blank RankbuttI completely agree. I think these terms are bullshit, but I decided to use them because it's commonplace on CCS and it would simplify me getting my point across.
You can find breakdowns like that for any QB in the league.except that it did, lots of breakdowns all last year of guys open and fields not throwing the ball.
Glad we're on the same page there.I completely agree. I think these terms are bullshit, but I decided to use them because it's commonplace on CCS and it would simplify me getting my point across.
For a very long time I've thought:
"Raw talent" = athletes who aren't good football players.
"Ceiling" = excuse for a player who's not playing up to the draft position (aka "upside").
"Floor" = Basically the Mendoza line for a football player's potential often defending a player who's good enough to play but will never be great.