Official 2023 Training Camp thread

pdxbearsfan

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If this translates in any way to actual production, DJ/Mooney/Claypool/Velus could be a pretty good group. Also excited about Scott. Justin year 2 in the same system. Then you throw in Kmet and Tonyan. And the RB room. And upgrades to the OL. Things could go from bad to pretty fucking good quickly in terms offensive production.

The Kool-Aid is flowing strong tonight boys. I'm so fucking excited for week 1.
Hear, hear I'm with you.
 

remydat

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Until he doesn't see someone coming and gets blindsided in the open field. He's not Barry Sanders.

But let's celebrate a few 1st downs while he's out for the season or has to retire prematurely.

He could get blindsided on a drop back pocket pass as well. There has already been studies on this. The risk of injury is not massively increased.

"To summarize, passing that doesn’t end in a scramble or a spike has a 0.28% injury rate, designed runs 0.64%, scrambles 0.87%, sacks 1.4%, and knockdowns are 1.56%."


You are actually more likely to be injured on a sack/knockdown in the pocket vs a designed run or scramble.

This should be obvious. A runner is more likely to be able to protect themselves than a passer who may be getting sacked/hit in the act of passing.
 
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cameronkrazie86

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When he gets "Trey Lanced" you will second guess this take.

If they are using Fields like the 49ers used Trey Lance, then I won't be second guessing that strategy, I'll be first guessing it. It's dumb as hell. The 49ers inexplicably decided to use Lance like Taysom Hill's QB power. You don't draft a QB in the 1st round to use them like Taysom Hill and run them straight up the gut 3-4 times a quarter right into the heart of the defense. The 49ers were hellbent on running QB power, Lance got hurt and lost a full year of development due to stupidity.

I'm cool with like 3-4 designed QB runs at most a game and the rest coming solely off broken plays. The runs where he makes something happen because the pass protection breaks down or he takes off because no one is open, those are cool.

It's the QB power game that I hate because you're letting your QB get hit by the biggest guys on the field repeatedly and often from multiple angles. I hated that strategy in college (Frank Solich used to run his QBs at Nebraska like that and I fucking hated it then too). That's a recipe for injury, regardless of player. It also adds wear and tear which can turn a small injury into becoming a big injury. So if that's the route they go with Fields then this coaching staff would absolutely be the wrong choice and should be fired asap.
 

pdxbearsfan

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So that sounds like a lot of context that doesnt exactly answer the question, but I appreciate the difference.

How about push this one in a direction - If Josh Allen can improve by 1000-1500 yards in the air in an offseason through hard work and dedication to his craft, why the doubt that Fields would be able to improve by that range? Even if they are "considered NFL-ready" that is always the hype that we get fed for rookies. I really dont think any QB is NFL ready until they prove otherwise in NFL games.

Is passing for about 3500 while also being a dynamic runner not an achievable AND good goal for him to have going into this year? Come in a little under or a little over, whatever. But at its heart, is 1000 or more yards of improvement as a passer not enough to give you more hope in his career?
Some folks always see a glass half empty. If one goes back and looks at JF's complete body of work starting in high school, he is
mostly the best player on the field and has constantly gotten better at everything, throw in the athletic ability, smarts and hard
work and he is close to can't miss barring a bad injury.
A good friend of mine in HS was similar as the best player on the field and went on to play at Ohio State, win a Rose Bowl and
played 10 years in the NFL as a solid starter.
 

Black Rainbow

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If they are using Fields like the 49ers used Trey Lance, then I won't be second guessing that strategy, I'll be first guessing it. It's dumb as hell. The 49ers inexplicably decided to use Lance like Taysom Hill's QB power. You don't draft a QB in the 1st round to use them like Taysom Hill and run them straight up the gut 3-4 times a quarter right into the heart of the defense. The 49ers were hellbent on running QB power, Lance got hurt and lost a full year of development due to stupidity.

I'm cool with like 3-4 designed QB runs at most a game and the rest coming solely off broken plays. The runs where he makes something happen because the pass protection breaks down or he takes off because no one is open, those are cool.

It's the QB power game that I hate because you're letting your QB get hit by the biggest guys on the field repeatedly and often from multiple angles. I hated that strategy in college (Frank Solich used to run his QBs at Nebraska like that and I fucking hated it then too). That's a recipe for injury, regardless of player. It also adds wear and tear which can turn a small injury into becoming a big injury. So if that's the route they go with Fields then this coaching staff would absolutely be the wrong choice and should be fired asap.
I ? agree with that take.

Designed QB runs to a minimum. And SF did try to power run Trey Lance.
 

Black Rainbow

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Some folks always see a glass half empty. If one goes back and looks at JF's complete body of work starting in high school, he is
mostly the best player on the field and has constantly gotten better at everything, throw in the athletic ability, smarts and hard
work and he is close to can't miss barring a bad injury.
A good friend of mine in HS was similar as the best player on the field and went on to play at Ohio State, win a Rose Bowl and
played 10 years in the NFL as a solid starter.
Body of work including high school...

???
 

iueyedoc

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We already agree he was drafted too high so you are vortexing about something we agree on.

They have not relegated him to 3rd string reps. Before Purdy was healthy he was getting 1st team reps and now that Purdy is back he is splitting 2nd team reps with Darnold.

Last year's Mr Irrelevant was one of the better QBs over the period he played. His draft status is irrelevant. He also is older than Lance despite being drafted a year later and has 5 times as many throws as Lance did coming out of college ie 1500 vs 300.


He is 1st team today. Pads arent even on yet. LMFAO!
So, I am on record saying I think he is a bust and you are on record with a firm he has some level of talent.

Can't wait for your cutting edge, "Bears will play football games at some level of talent" prediction.
 

remydat

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So, I am on record saying I think he is a bust and you are on record with a firm he has some level of talent.

Can't wait for your cutting edge, "Bears will play football games at some level of talent" prediction.

I am on record that giving up on a 23 year old QB in TC before the pads are even on when he has 500 throws over 7 years is premature.
 

SugarWalls

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I am on record that giving up on a 23 year old QB in TC before the pads are even on when he has 500 throws over 7 years is premature.
Part of the reason he has 500 throws over 7 years is because he can’t throw worth a damn.

He is athletic with a strong arm, he can’t throw and his accuracy issues won’t work in the NFL.

It’s why Brock Purdy, mr irrelevant, was handed the job even after coming back from his injury.
 

Bears4Ever_34

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More like theyre trying to make him into Cam 2.0? Bigger the better to hold up to the abuse he'll take in the run game, if I had to guess.
I don't know. He seems plenty big enough as it is. All that weight is going to do is make him slower. I'm very curious to see how he looks compared to Fields in a couple weeks when they have joint practices together. I don't know quite what to make of him yet. There's a lot to like when you watch his highlights, but the talent doesn't match up with the production. He seems like the quintessential boom or bust prospect who's either going to be really good or really bad.
 

cameronkrazie86

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I don't know. He seems plenty big enough as it is. All that weight is going to do is make him slower. I'm very curious to see how he looks compared to Fields in a couple weeks when they have joint practices together. I don't know quite what to make of him yet. There's a lot to like when you watch his highlights, but the talent doesn't match up with the production. He seems like the quintessential boom or bust prospect who's either going to be really good or really bad.

Totally agree with you about Richardson being a boom or bust prospect. He seems like a hell of an athlete but whether he can play QB effectively at the NFL level is definitely a question mark. I have no doubt that he will have several highlight worthy plays this upcoming season but also fully expect several lowlights too. It will be fascinating to watch because if he can pass effectively, his physical gifts allow him to be a cheat code as a QB. But it all comes down to whether he can become an effective passer (much like Fields).
 

iueyedoc

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I am on record that giving up on a 23 year old QB in TC before the pads are even on when he has 500 throws over 7 years is premature.
You keep saying "before the pads go on" like not wearing restrictive body armor and the freedom from fear of being hit by a 270 beast is a negative. You do understand that 7 on 7 and throwing where DLman jog past you are advantages and dirting a ball to an outlet guy and firing 4 yards wide of a simple crossing pattern on 2 of the entirety of the 4 throws your HC chose to see from him is not from lack of pads and an actual defensive rush,don't you?
 

remydat

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Part of the reason he has 500 throws over 7 years is because he can’t throw worth a damn.

He is athletic with a strong arm, he can’t throw and his accuracy issues won’t work in the NFL.

It’s why Brock Purdy, mr irrelevant, was handed the job even after coming back from his injury.

That really doesnt explain it though. He only had 100 throws in High School because he started playing QB late. Hence why his Div I offers were for WR and CB not QB.

He redshirted in 2018 and then had 67% comp with 28 TDs and 0 Ints in 2019 setting an NCAA record. He missed 2020 due to Covid and hasnt played much in the NFL due to injury. So not sure it is fair to blame accuracy when he was 67% his one full year at QB.

Of his 4 games in the NFL one was in a Monsoon where both he and Fields were below 50% passing. Otherwise he has 2 games less than 60% and one game where he was at 69%. That isnt really enough to go off of. It would be like judging Fields before he had a chance to develop 2nd half of last year. He played like shit the first few games of 2022. Lance hasnt had a chance to play a lot to see if he can turn the corner.
 

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