Official Carry-over Argument thread

[97Bulls]

You guys must understand something about rami..... he's 23. He was around 6 -9 years old when pippen played. Its why I shy away from anything that happened before the mid 80s. I've always been a basketball fan, but couldn't really appreciate the players talent until I turned 12-13.

He probably remembers pippen from 98 on. Which would include his houston and portland days.

 

[Glide2keva]

But Jordan's supporting cast weren't deemed good enough until 91, after they won the championship. He proved his naysayers wrong. LeBron couldn't do that.

Exactly! He is supposed to step up and lead his troops. On that '91 team, outside of the starting 5, there weren't any real threats. They just all worked well together, but they also has a leader to lead them when it was winning time.

By the way, LeBron got spared from getting beatdown by Kobe in the Finals.

Thank you again.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Dude, stop. Hill may have the ability to step into Pippen's place, but he wouldn't be nearly as good playing next to MJ. They had similar skill sets, but Pippen was better defensively and in those areas that don't show up on the stat sheet than Hill was. He was an excellent scorer (for a Duke player), and a very good defender, but to say he would seamlessly fill in is crazy.

Gill? No, stop it, now it's just ridiculous. Kendall Gill wanted to be a scorer and that's it. He was okay on defense, but nothing like Pippen was. You would not be able to run the offense through Gill the way you could with Pippen.

Wow.

There is literally nothing except defense that you can tell me that Pippen was better at than Grant Hill (Hill being damn good at that end himself). Everything else- Hill trumps Pippen.

And Pippen and Jordan had years of chemistry between the two of them. If Hill and Jordan had that long history between the two of them then I'm sure it would have been the same result as with Pippen. The Bulls' offense would have been that much more dominant with two guys who could score at will. Pippen never could.

And lol at what you said about Gill. Gill, like Pippen, was one of the better perimeter defenders in the history of the NBA. Gill was a very good scorer (yet not a selfish player at all) and that is the biggest thing that elevates Pip over Kendall. And rebounding.

Grant would have taken over the role of the Bulls' second scoring option and Gill would have been the third. I'd like to see many teams that would beat the Bulls with that and Jordan running the team. The Pistons? Lakers? Blazers? Knicks? Suns? Maybe the Bulls would have a couple less titles but they could have very well won all of them.

 

[Glide2keva]

You guys must understand something about rami..... he's 23. He was around 6 -9 years old when pippen played. Its why I shy away from anything that happened before the mid 80s. I've always been a basketball fan, but couldn't really appreciate the players talent until I turned 12-13.

He probably remembers pippen from 98 on. Which would include his houston and portland days.

Well I saw every game of Pippen's career and he was much better than these people who never really saw him play, except on you tube are giving him credit for.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

But Jordan's supporting cast weren't deemed good enough until 91, after they won the championship. He proved his naysayers wrong. LeBron couldn't do that.

By the way, LeBron got sparred from getting beatdown by Kobe in the Finals.

LeBron is younger than Jordan was in 1991. After he wins a few titles, which I certainly hope he doesn't, that theory is going to be decimated. And Jordan was good enough to lead a team to a LOT more championships than just the 6 he won.

You guys must understand something about rami..... he's 23. He was around 6 -9 years old when pippen played. Its why I shy away from anything that happened before the mid 80s. I've always been a basketball fan, but couldn't really appreciate the players talent until I turned 12-13.

He probably remembers pippen from 98 on. Which would include his houston and portland days.

I have watched Pippen in the vast majority of the games he played with the Bulls from 1991 onward. I'm not talking about the injury-riddled Pippen in his last seasons.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Well I saw every game of Pippen's career and he was much better than these people who never really saw him play, except on you tube are giving him credit for.

LeBron>Pippen.

I am not the YT fan. I've seen those games on VHS and in-game and radio from when I was five years-old and onward and I'm obsessed enough to watch them multiple times.

 

[DCguy]

LeBron is younger than Jordan was in 1991. After he wins a few titles, which I certainly hope he doesn't, that theory is going to be decimated. And Jordan was good enough to lead a team to a LOT more championships than just the 6 he won.




I have watched Pippen in the vast majority of the games he played with the Bulls from 1991 onward. I'm not talking about the injury-riddled Pippen in his last seasons.

There is no guarantee he will get any title or even go back to the NBA Finals.

You saying that reminds me of that one guy on here that said he would put LeBron down as the best small forward after he gets his fourth ring lol.

 

[Glide2keva]

There is literally nothing except defense that you can tell me that Pippen was better at than Grant Hill (Hill being damn good at that end himself). Everything else, Hill trumps Pippen.

If you say so. I know you're wrong, but I'm tired of this argument.

And Pippen and Jordan had years of chemistry between the two of them. If Hill and Jordan had that long history between the two of them then I'm sure it would have been the same result as with Pippen. The Bulls' offense would have been that much more dominant with two guys who could score at will. Pippen never could.

Just because Pippen deferred to Jordan, doesn't mean he could score when he wanted to. Pippen had a balanced game and that's why he didn't score as much as he could. It's not like he couldn't, he just didn't. That like kobe fans saying Jordan never scored 81, just because he didn't, doesn't mean he couldn't. Jordan scored 69, you mean to tell me he could not get 12 more if he really wanted to? Just like Pippen, he could've scored more, he chose not to in order to do other things on the court.

And lol at what you said about Gill. Gill, like Pippen, was one of the better perimeter defenders in the history of the NBA. Gill was a very good scorer (yet not a selfish player at all) and that is the biggest thing that elevates Pip over Kendall. And rebounding.

My memories of Gill, having actually watched him his whole career, was that he was a good scorer an okay defender and that's it. Saying he was one of the best perimeter defender sin the history of the game is a joke. He was good, but come on, he wasn't all world like you are saying.

Grant would have taken over the role of the Bulls' second scoring option and Gill would have been the third. I'd like to see many teams that would beat the Bulls with that and Jordan running the team. The Pistons? Lakers? Blazers? Knicks? Suns? Maybe the Bulls would have a couple less titles but they could have very well won all of them.

Yeah with Grant AND Gill, the Bulls would be a lot better. But it was one or the other situation, not the Bulls having both at the same time. Don't change the debate to fit your diss Pippen at all costs agenda.

 

[97Bulls]

Another point that I want to bring out rami. Why do you put pippens defense into context by saying he was a product of being able to hand check? Wouldn't that same rule apply to jame offensively? Wouldn't pippen benefit from the no hand check rule offensively like every other perimeter player?

And as far as defense goes, pippen not having to wrry about illegal defense would be insane.

 

[Glide2keva]

LeBron is younger than Jordan was in 1991. After he wins a few titles, which I certainly hope he doesn't, that theory is going to be decimated. And Jordan was good enough to lead a team to a LOT more championships than just the 6 he won.

Yeah, because it's a forgone conclusion that lebron is going to win one, let alone a few.

I have watched Pippen in the vast majority of the games he played with the Bulls from 1991 onward. I'm not talking about the injury-riddled Pippen in his last seasons.

Watching games on VHS and watching them live in the moment is two very different things. I saw them as they happened and what those games meant while they were happening.

 

[Glide2keva]

There is no guarantee he will get any title or even go back to the NBA Finals.

You saying that reminds me of that one guy on here that said he would put LeBron down as the best small forward after he gets his fourth ring lol.

Where is his first?

 

[Glide2keva]

Another point that I want to bring out rami. Why do you put pippens defense into context by saying he was a product of being able to hand check? Wouldn't that same rule apply to jame offensively? Wouldn't pippen benefit from the no hand check rule offensively like every other perimeter player?

And as far as defense goes, pippen not having to wrry about illegal defense would be insane.

None of those points matter when it favors Pippen.

 

[DCguy]

Where is his first?

I asked that person the same thing back in early July.....never got a response. I guess his High School State Championships count.

 

[97Bulls]

LeBron is younger than Jordan was in 1991. After he wins a few titles, which I certainly hope he doesn't, that theory is going to be decimated. And Jordan was good enough to lead a team to a LOT more championships than just the 6 he won.




I have watched Pippen in the vast majority of the games he played with the Bulls from 1991 onward. I'm not talking about the injury-riddled Pippen in his last seasons.

Really? Then how can you say pippen post game isn't far superior to james?

 

[Glide2keva]

I asked that person the same thing back in early July.....never got a response. I guess his High School State Championships count.

Oh those "national" championships lebron was going on about?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I hate Kobe, but I think he's a great player, a little overrated, but a great player. Since I hate him, I'm not going to defend him in any sense.

Kobe>Pippen. A LOT>Pippen.

Yeah shit.

Pippen could never come close to 30 ppg. You act as though that's nothing to speak of.

Unless you count the chase down block, he does nothing on defense better than Pippen.

The difference is negligible.

He isn't as good a help defender as Pippen.

The difference is negligible.

He doesn't shut down the weak side as well as Pippen.

The difference is negligible.

What has lebron done in the clutch?

More than Pippen.

Oh you mean in games where the title isn't on the line because I haven't seen him do anything in the Finals.

Neither has Pippen.

Pippen also retracted that statement as soon as he said it.

Not true. Pippen said it and he didn't correct himself. He explained what he meant. And he wasn't exactly wrong. What he said was that James could be the best player of all-time if he had the desire. Pippen could never even dream of being the GOAT.

Meaning that yeah, he can score, but when the pressure's on, he isn't one to be counted on.

He can be counted on more-so than Pippen.

But Pippen was better at it, so I'd take him over lebronze.

So much in that. Okay, you're about the post game and you're wrong to say lebron doesn't need it to be the best. He does. If he doesn't need it, then that not a testament to how great he really is, but more an indictment on the competition around him that he doesn't have to improve his game.

Who's better than LeBron James right now? If you say Nowitzki, prepare to get laughed at. Wade's sure not. Kobe is diminishing in athletic ability. Dwight Howard is the only one with a slight, bogus case.

I said I could, I just really choose not to. I choose not because I see lebron differently. While everyone goes gaga over his highlights, I look at what he does on the court. He's a front runner. He likes to show-boat and hot dog it. He wants it to be easy. He doesn't want to work hard for it when it's time to step up. I don't buy into the runaway hype and never have. I've always taken a let's see what he does approach with him, and he hasn't done much but made some highlights and put up empty stats. Oh, and he put his name in the dunk contest and then back out like a chump.

The dunk contest? That doesn't mean a damn thing and is irrelevant to the entire conversation. LeBron James may be all of the things that you said he is. But, still, being the clown that he is... is STILL WAY better than Pippen as a whole. And is better than anybody else in the league. Imagine if he wasn't a clown. The guy would probably be the second best player in NBA history.

 

[Glide2keva]

Really? Then how can you say pippen post game isn't far superior to james?

Because that would be saying Pippen is better than lebron at something and that just can't happen on a Bulls forum.

 

[97Bulls]

Where is his first?

This is true. If james manages to to not win 1 ring, he's a failure. What would be his excuse barring injury?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Really? Then how can you say pippen post game isn't far superior to james?

Pippen's post up ability is "far superior to James'" in the sense of 0 being far greater than the number 1. 0 is nothing. Therefore, even the number 1 is more than infinity times greater than it.

Pippen had a nice little post-up game but it was a far cry from a dominant one.

There was nothing Pippen could use as a tool in his offensive game to help the offense nearly score at will (except pass to MJ if that counts?).

LeBron can blow by nearly anybody and, at the very least, draw the foul.

And, in case that's where you want to consider it ends, it's not. Pippen, while a very good passer, was nowhere near as great at putting the pass in tough places as James is. Pippen wasn't a great passer; LeBron is.

 

[DCguy]

This is true. If james manages to to not win 1 ring, he's a failure. What would be his excuse barring injury?

Erik Spoelstra, Pat Riley not coaching, or waiting too long to coach the team, Wade getting old, or the new one....LeBron stopping LeBron. They will find something new. They need to start giving these excuses to Chris Broussard, he was stuck when Rob Parker and Skip were grilling him.