Dejo
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hutch at 4?
No effing way
No effing way
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You cant read. I never compared to Von Miller. I disputed @Montucky comparing him to Miller as Miller cost 700k.
The Chargers re-worked his deal. His cap hit this year is 8.5m but they converted 13.5m of his original 17.5m salary this year so in essence all they did is defer 9m of his 17.5 salary so in effect he has a 1 year 17.5m deal with the cap hit spread over 2 years. If you wanted to do a comparison to Quinn you would have to assume a team acquiring him that needed cap space would convert some salary into to SB. If we assume like the Chargers a team converts 77% of his base salary this year then his 12.9m cap hit goes to 6.23m (2.9 base salary and 3.33m in SB bonus). His salaries for 2023 would then be 17.33 and 16.33 million. So if you wanted to compare like for like then that is still much better than the Chargers having to convert Mack's salary into SB and paying him 8.75, 27.4 and 27.75m for 3 years.
So you are overcomplicating things and proving my point. It is obvious Quinn's contract is better. If they both get 8-12 sacks then who would you rather have? Quinn locked in at 12.9, 14 and 13m for 3 years or Mack at 8.75, 27.4 and 27.75m for 3 years. The obvious answer is Quinn because his cap hist are reasonable enough that you don't have to jump thru a lot of hoops if he is good. The Chargers need cap space this year so they had to convert 13.5 of base salary into SB and in doing so they made the last 2 years of Mack's contract pretty much impossible for them to pay. So the whole point is Mack's contract is really just a one year deal as no one is likely paying him 27m. So you traded a 2nd rounder for Mack to basically pay him for 1 year at 17.5m which you can spread over 2 years after which you basically have to tear up the last 2 years and pay him again or cut him. If he is still good then you will be paying him more than what Quinn is getting and you will have to also guarantee a bunch of new money. Quinn I can get for a reasonable price these 3 years and all his money will be non-guaranteed unlike if I have to give Mack a new deal.
Von Miller
Von Miller contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.
And just to close the loop. This is what Von Miller got at 33. Mack will be 32 in 2023. So if he has a good or great year, you looking at something like 54m guaranteed and a contract that averages 20m a year. Meanwhile if Quinn has a good or great year, you are looking at 0m guaranteed and a contract that pays him 14 and 13m over the next 2 years. It is obvious which contract is better.
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dabears70
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You should never stop brushing convenient store floors.
bears51/40
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Look at Quinn's history, 2020 was the outlier otherwise he has had a great healthy career.
maxhatter
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Dai'Jean Dixon is not fast....His 4.62 40 proves that. He's someone that can work over the middle not someone who can beat people over the top
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No idea what people are smoking. Mack averages 0.65 sacks a game over his 8 year career. Quinn has averaged 0.65 sacks a game as well over his 11 year career. The main difference is Mack is more consistent year in and year out while Quinn is more volatile as he has some years with 18 and 19 sacks and some years were he only got like 3 or 4. That and Quinn entered the league at 21 and Mack at 23 which is why he has 3 more seasons in the NFL despite only being 1 year older than Mack.
Mighty Joe Young
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Yeah, I muddled that, but that's why I'd go Dixon late - as a slot guy who can work the middle.
Mighty Joe Young
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So does every very good player - until they don't, which usually happens with age, and usually by a precipitous fall off.
dabears70
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Would the Chicago Bears Rather Have This or That: Wide receivers edition
With a need for a wide receiver, there's Wide Receiver A and Wide Receiver B. Would the Chicago Bears be better for drafting This or That?
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You cant read. I never compared to Von Miller. I disputed @Montucky comparing him to Miller as Miller cost 700k.
The Chargers re-worked his deal. His cap hit this year is 8.5m but they converted 13.5m of his original 17.5m salary this year so in essence all they did is defer 9m of his 17.5 salary so in effect he has a 1 year 17.5m deal with the cap hit spread over 2 years. If you wanted to do a comparison to Quinn you would have to assume a team acquiring him that needed cap space would convert some salary into to SB. If we assume like the Chargers a team converts 77% of his base salary this year then his 12.9m cap hit goes to 6.23m (2.9 base salary and 3.33m in SB bonus). His salaries for 2023 would then be 17.33 and 16.33 million. So if you wanted to compare like for like then that is still much better than the Chargers having to convert Mack's salary into SB and paying him 8.75, 27.4 and 27.75m for 3 years.
So you are overcomplicating things and proving my point. It is obvious Quinn's contract is better. If they both get 8-12 sacks then who would you rather have? Quinn locked in at 12.9, 14 and 13m for 3 years or Mack at 8.75, 27.4 and 27.75m for 3 years. The obvious answer is Quinn because his cap hist are reasonable enough that you don't have to jump thru a lot of hoops if he is good. The Chargers need cap space this year so they had to convert 13.5 of base salary into SB and in doing so they made the last 2 years of Mack's contract pretty much impossible for them to pay. So the whole point is Mack's contract is really just a one year deal as no one is likely paying him 27m. So you traded a 2nd rounder for Mack to basically pay him for 1 year at 17.5m which you can spread over 2 years after which you basically have to tear up the last 2 years and pay him again or cut him. If he is still good then you will be paying him more than what Quinn is getting and you will have to also guarantee a bunch of new money. Quinn I can get for a reasonable price these 3 years and all his money will be non-guaranteed unlike if I have to give Mack a new deal.
Von Miller
Von Miller contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.www.spotrac.com
And just to close the loop. This is what Von Miller got at 33. Mack will be 32 in 2023. So if he has a good or great year, you looking at something like 54m guaranteed and a contract that averages 20m a year. Meanwhile if Quinn has a good or great year, you are looking at 0m guaranteed and a contract that pays him 14 and 13m over the next 2 years. It is obvious which contract is better.
Simply placing value of each based solely on sack totals is stupid.
You know it and I know it. So stop already. That is why Mack still had a higher PFF grade last year than Quin, even in a limited capacity.
Mack has shit all over Quin every dam year.
Again, stop being obtuse. It is quite obvious to anybody but a Bears fan (currently) who the better player is.
Again, Quin is not worth what Mack was in a trade, period.
* edit, I could do the same with Von Miller, to show he is better than Quinn as well.
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Mighty Joe Young
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Again, I hate to agree with you, but I agree with you here.
People are overvaluing what Quinn would get in a trade. I originally said low 3rd to 4th. Rethinking this and seeing what others have gone for, I am now thinking that he'd go for a 4th or a 5th. The best possible way to move him for a higher pick, would be to bundle him with other vets, like Montgomery, Whitehair, Foles, and yes, even Roquan. And then if you do find a taker for that package, the player you take in the draft better be a starter....
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or you could eat a good portion of his contract to increase his value to a cash strapped contender.
dennehy
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How many times have you seen two high-priced vets bundled in a trade for draft picks?
It never happens, especially now when teams are up against the cap. So no, that would not happen.
MikeDitkaPolishSausage
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You are also using PFF, which is a made up system of grading players. Ask anyone around the league and they will tell you Quinn had a better season than Mack last year. Sometimes PFF makes people look real stupid, like you in this case.
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Quinn had a better season then Mack by virtue of playing in more games, nothing else. As for the rest, the next intelligent thing you say will be your first. Teams look at a vets body of work, not just the last year you moron.
And in case you missed it, Remy likes to use PFF quite a bit, but thanks for adding nothing to this discussion.
MikeDitkaPolishSausage
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Yeah injuries are part of the game. Thanks for stating the obvious. And even if Mack played a full season, the chances of him getting 18 sacks as well were slim.
Teams also make big trades based on the previous year. You are the moron if you think that’s never happened before.
I know Remy uses it and I’ve made negative comments towards him regarding PFF. What was the point of that comment?
You never add anything of value to to conversation. Why are you even on a Bears forum?
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Player performance is more than just sack totals, even 18 sacks a year only equates to one sack a game. Big fucking deal, hardly game changing.
Teams seldom make big trades based on the previous year of a 32 year old edge player. If he was young and on the upswing, sure. As for what am I doing here, the question is, what are you doing here, you add nothing of value. I doubt anyone would even notice you missing.
Dejo
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MikeDitkaPolishSausage
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Sacks play a big role in how OLBs are viewed. Beside his sack total, he has great moves and has been solid against the run the last couple seasons. So a team contending for the SB would give up a good draft pick for him.
I am a Bears fan so that’s why I’m here. And if I bo longer posted here and people didn’t notice, I would be 100% ok with that. This is a messaged board…….
Again, the real question is why are you here?