Official Offseason Thread - CUBS edition

[nwfisch]

OBP and OPS are the two most important stats that were listed. I am seriously starting to question whether or not you know anything about stats and correlation



RBI guy? C'mon d3a, you're better than that. RBI is a team stat based off where a guy hits in the line up. Sure, they are neck to neck in those stats, but those are just counting stats, as in they don't mean shit to anyone with a brain. Oh, BTW, walks are pretty damn important.

RBI is not a team stat. :lol:

 

[dabynsky]

Again, adding more than what I've said, Dab. Is this how you try to back up arguments you can't support?

It's very simple.... one stat does not make you better or worse than any other player. Very simple.

It's the combination of stats that do. Since there is no real combination of stats beyond the Walks and those things directly connected to them... these two have had extremely similar seasons. If you take walks completely out of the equation... Soriano is actually putting up better numbers. That's the debate here. Not whether or not walks matter. Seriously? The cubs are near the cellar in walks as it is... and for all of those grand walks Pena has picked up he's only scored twice more than Barney has... despite having a nearly 30 point lower OBP. He's only scored 13 more time than Byrd... despite having 120 more PAs. Despite waking so much in his career, Pena has only had 2 seasons where he's scored more than 90 runs.

In other words, his high walk totals have rarely amounted to much. This is not the case wit hall players, but with Pena it is.

Fine you are right. Pena and Soriano are the same player because only one stat is different and if everything is the same except for one stat that makes you the same player.

And you are right that runs accurately reflect the value of a player and isn't influenced at all about the hitters behind them. And that perhaps why Barney might have scored more runs is that he has gotten to hit in front of guys like Ramirez and Pena.

 

[daddies3angels]

OBP and OPS are the two most important stats that were listed. I am seriously starting to question whether or not you know anything about stats and correlation



RBI guy? C'mon d3a, you're better than that. RBI is a team stat based off where a guy hits in the line up. Sure, they are neck to neck in those stats, but those are just counting stats, as in they don't mean shit to anyone with a brain. Oh, BTW, walks are pretty damn important.

RBI guy is actually important. Think about it. Cubs had NO PROBLEMS getting guys on like NYY or BOS. They had HUGE problems getting them in. You think any of NYY players hitting under .175 with RISP...So to say RBI doesnt matter is wrong. Still need guys willing to drive them.

 

[nwfisch]

Fine you are right. Pena and Soriano are the same player because only one stat is different and if everything is the same except for one stat that makes you the same player.

And you are right that runs accurately reflect the value of a player and isn't influenced at all about the hitters behind them. And that perhaps why Barney might have scored more runs is that he has gotten to hit in front of guys like Ramirez and Pena.

Pena and Soriano put up similar numbers :lol:

The only major difference is on base percentage.

 

[daddies3angels]

Im sorry having a guy like Pena who walks,K, or hit HR doesnt do much in the RBI situation. Why do you think he rarely gets to 100 RBI even with his HR power

 

[Rice Cube]

RBI is not a team stat. :lol:

It actually kind of is.

You can't get RBI if there are on men on base before you bat. You can get RBI if you hit a homer with no one on, but then RBI doesn't add up.

 

[dabynsky]

RBI guy is actually important. Think about it. Cubs had NO PROBLEMS getting guys on like NYY or BOS. They had HUGE problems getting them in. You think any of NYY players hitting under .175 with RISP...So to say RBI doesnt matter is wrong. Still need guys willing to drive them.

Boston has a team OBP of .350 and NYY has a team OBP of .348. The Cubs have a .315 OBP. Try again.

 

[Captain Obvious]

RBI guy is actually important. Think about it. Cubs had NO PROBLEMS getting guys on like NYY or BOS. They had HUGE problems getting them in. You think any of NYY players hitting under .175 with RISP...So to say RBI doesnt matter is wrong. Still need guys willing to drive them.

You think there are players who aren't willing to drive guys in? Is that what you're actually saying?! RBI is based off of where you hit in the line up. If you put Ramirez in the 1 spot he's gonna have less rbi than in the 4 spot, willingness or not.

 

[daddies3angels]

Boston has a team OBP of .350 and NYY has a team OBP of .348. The Cubs have a .315 OBP. Try again.

How many times have Cubs left men on base this year. THEY ARE HORRIBLE with RISP. Its guys like Pena hitting .175 RISP make it horrible. I cant count how many games Cubs have bases loaded less then 2 out and dont score. Have 1st and 3rd less then 1 out and dont score. Its cause Pena + others strikeout all the damn time or hit weak pop ups. Im tired of hearing RBI dont matter cause when team like Cubs have them in scoring postion and they dont score its cause Cubs dont have good hitters. So lets just bring back the same lineup for next year.

 

[daddies3angels]

You think there are players who aren't willing to drive guys in? Is that what you're actually saying?! RBI is based off of where you hit in the line up. If you put Ramirez in the 1 spot he's gonna have less rbi than in the 4 spot, willingness or not.

that just common sense. Pena has hit in the middle of the lineup ALL YEAR. Castro has almost as many RBI as he does and basically been hitting 1 or 2 all year.. Its cause Pena is NOT a RBI guy. When Castro actually has guys on base he makes contact to bring the runners in. Im saying that you still need guys who know how to hit with RISP. Pena IS NOT one of them

 

[nwfisch]

OBP and RISP have been big problems with the Cubs for a long time now.

OBP can really only be fixed by teaching on the farm to take a walk.

RISP can be fixed more as in signing a FA like Fielder etc.

Both need to be improved by a lot.

 

[daddies3angels]

My favorite stat this year is when Cubs score 4+ runs they are like 25 games over...So imagine if Cubs would just score 4 runs more often. How many times have we seen cubs go 1-12, 2-15, 1-14 with RISP and lose 4-3,5-2. I understand that Pitching hasnt been very good this year but still when cubs have chances to score THEY DONT

 

[dabynsky]

How many times have Cubs left men on base this year. THEY ARE HORRIBLE with RISP. Its guys like Pena hitting .175 RISP make it horrible. I cant count how many games Cubs have bases loaded less then 2 out and dont score. Have 1st and 3rd less then 1 out and dont score. Its cause Pena + others strikeout all the damn time or hit weak pop ups. Im tired of hearing RBI dont matter cause when team like Cubs have them in scoring postion and they dont score its cause Cubs dont have good hitters. So lets just bring back the same lineup for next year.

They haven't been good at RISP this year. Their .238 batting average ranks 26th. However, it still doesn't change the fact that the two teams you talked about before lead baseball in walks and the Cubs are dead last. If the Cubs batting average wasn't as high as it is they would rank much lower than they do in OBP, and getting guys on is a huge problem for this team.

 

[dabynsky]

OBP and RISP have been big problems with the Cubs for a long time now.

OBP can really only be fixed by teaching on the farm to take a walk.

RISP can be fixed more as in signing a FA like Fielder etc.

Both need to be improved by a lot.

RISP is fixed by getting good players. It fluctuates year to year. Pena's batting averag with RISP has gone down 60 points this year despite a 30 point increase in overall batting average. ARod has hit .260 with RISP and over .300 another year. Jose Bautista has hit .240 and .220 with RISP. Hitting with RISP is important, but you can't find guys that hit good with RISP you can only find good hitters.

 

[daddies3angels]

They haven't been good at RISP this year. Their .238 batting average ranks 26th. However, it still doesn't change the fact that the two teams you talked about before lead baseball in walks and the Cubs are dead last. If the Cubs batting average wasn't as high as it is they would rank much lower than they do in OBP, and getting guys on is a huge problem for this team.

Im not saying its not. What im saying is why would you be ok with them signing a guy just cause he takes walks. What about the .175 avg RISP? What about all those K's. Just imagine if they had a 1B with .250 avg RISP. they would have won prolly 5-10 more games. Pena is good at 2 things, Walks, and HR (honestly 24 HR not that great for how many K's he has and for his RISP avg)

 

[nwfisch]

RISP is fixed by getting good players. It fluctuates year to year. Pena's batting averag with RISP has gone down 60 points this year despite a 30 point increase in overall batting average. ARod has hit .260 with RISP and over .300 another year. Jose Bautista has hit .240 and .220 with RISP. Hitting with RISP is important, but you can't find guys that hit good with RISP you can only find good hitters.

So what are you saying about Fielder?

 

[daddies3angels]

RISP is fixed by getting good players. It fluctuates year to year. Pena's batting averag with RISP has gone down 60 points this year despite a 30 point increase in overall batting average. ARod has hit .260 with RISP and over .300 another year. Jose Bautista has hit .240 and .220 with RISP. Hitting with RISP is important, but you can't find guys that hit good with RISP you can only find good hitters.

I understand it changes every year but has Pena EVER been good at it? Im assuming no cause with his HR total he dont get very many RBI's. Your telling me last year he hit .239 RISP. That again is bad..So he is proven that he not an RBI guy

 

[dabynsky]

Im not saying its not. What im saying is why would you be ok with them signing a guy just cause he takes walks. What about the .175 avg RISP? What about all those K's. Just imagine if they had a 1B with .250 avg RISP. they would have won prolly 5-10 more games. Pena is good at 2 things, Walks, and HR (honestly 24 HR not that great for how many K's he has and for his RISP avg)

Because Pena could have a .250 average in RISP situations. He hit nearly .240 with RISP in a year that he hit below the Mendoza line. Hitting with RISP is not an ability hitters can control from year to year.

 

[daddies3angels]

Because Pena could have a .250 average in RISP situations. He hit nearly .240 with RISP in a year that he hit below the Mendoza line. Hitting with RISP is not an ability hitters can control from year to year.

Again thats not very good. Its cause he K's or walks with guys on base. How does that help?

 

[dabynsky]

So what are you saying about Fielder?

What I've always said, I would love to have him. He is a great player right now and for the next several seasons. I worry that the pitching sucks and won't get better on its own. And thats signing Fielder will mean they will have to bandaid the rotation which will make the rotation and bullpen bad again.