***OFFICIAL*** Stanley Cup Playoff (12) Blackhawks vs. (1) Golden Knights thread

[Granada]

Hey Patches go suck a dick you dirtbag. Glad to see Cat get one. Still alive boys still alive

It'd be nice if someone actually dropped the gloves there -- that was dirty as ****, not only the slash, but then the push into the boards after the goal. I mean, the game's over -- there's no reason not to retaliate there. Murphy could have easily dropped the gloves there, but intstead, he and Toews give him these little love taps. But anyways...

Nice to see Colliton put Boqvist on the third tandem and load up the top 4 finally, but why he kept throwing Kane/Dach/Cagiula against the 4th line in the first period when they were getting utterly dominated was beyond me. You have the last line change.

Hawks will still need a miracle to advance, but it was nice to get at least one win here. Lehner really hasn't been all that great in this series -- neither has Crawford until this last game.

 

[anotheridiot]

Crow cant do it alone goofs. Grab your sack and let's get it done

Crow gave up a ton of rebounds and the sticks were always there to clear the puck from the crease. Exhaustion set in in the third period for both teams. Like there was not going to be enough hockey played today without having to schedule a back to back.
I say no doubt we get Fleurry again tomorrow.

 

[Granada]

Crow gave up a ton of rebounds and the sticks were always there to clear the puck from the crease. Exhaustion set in in the third period for both teams. Like there was not going to be enough hockey played today without having to schedule a back to back.
I say no doubt we get Fleurry again tomorrow.

I'd be surprised if they went with Fleury. That's more of a desperation move. The Knights are still very much in control. Maybe if they lose the next game and Lenher isn't great, then I can see them going with Fleury -- but if they go to him already while up 3-1, that's way too alarmist and would be over-coaching by Deboer.

 

[anotheridiot]

No, its their regular schedule altering starts. Fleury has his name on 3 cups, Lehnar was already shaken. Bottom line is Fleury looked much better than Lehnar has looked. I can see sticking with Lehnar while he was winning, no way a back to back with Fleury available, which was the right call, now its gotta be back to alternating for them. What would Lehnars feeble mindfuck be if Fleury clinched yesterday? Lets get to the point of worrying who is in net for game 7.

 

[LordKOTL]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1295170578979184641

A buddy of mine saw a post-game presser where Crawford said the thought the D played great.

Crow gave up a ton of rebounds and the sticks were always there to clear the puck from the crease. Exhaustion set in in the third period for both teams. Like there was not going to be enough hockey played today without having to schedule a back to back.
I say no doubt we get Fleurry again tomorrow.

The best Crawford ever plays is as a deflector goalie, not an absorption goalie. Back in 2012--his worst year--he tried to absorb but all that happened was the attackers getting 5-6 whacks at the puck at the netmouth and then ending up scoring because, at the time, Seabrook was the only one with the clockweights to try to clear the crease (A problem that continues today). Even Emery had that problem in 2012. His best work is trying to deflect the puck into the corners and rely on the D to clear the rebounds. That's also they the 'hawks lost a couple of games because the team D lost the weakside attacker (note: that's not always a D-man's responsibility).

In 2013 and 2015 the 'hawks had that synergy--guys like Keith and Hjammer were in the right positions to cover weakside attacker and collect the deflected pucks, leaving Crawford to get set square to the shooter and not have to be acrobatic--and his SV% showed it.

While the Team D last night could have been way better, the net positive is that the D-men were in sync with that and were collecting the off-to-the-side rebounds like they should--which is a small saving grace. I'm not going to slam the D last night because of that. If anything it's the O that needs to get going.

 

[Granada]

No, its their regular schedule altering starts. Fleury has his name on 3 cups, Lehnar was already shaken. Bottom line is Fleury looked much better than Lehnar has looked. I can see sticking with Lehnar while he was winning, no way a back to back with Fleury available, which was the right call, now its gotta be back to alternating for them. What would Lehnars feeble mindfuck be if Fleury clinched yesterday? Lets get to the point of worrying who is in net for game 7.

You like to tell people they're wrong, when it's you who's wrong.

In addition to Game 4, Lehner started the first two games of the series and has played 5 of the 7 total playoff games for Vegas -- so no, it's not an alternating schedule.

They gave Fleury a game because it was a back-to-back and because they were up 2 games. Lehner gave up one bad goal yesterday. If Deboer benches him for that, he's an idiot and he's over-coaching.

 

[Granada]

A buddy of mine saw a post-game presser where Crawford said the thought the D played great.

The best Crawford ever plays is as a deflector goalie, not an absorption goalie. Back in 2012--his worst year--he tried to absorb but all that happened was the attackers getting 5-6 whacks at the puck at the netmouth and then ending up scoring because, at the time, Seabrook was the only one with the clockweights to try to clear the crease (A problem that continues today). Even Emery had that problem in 2012. His best work is trying to deflect the puck into the corners and rely on the D to clear the rebounds. That's also they the 'hawks lost a couple of games because the team D lost the weakside attacker (note: that's not always a D-man's responsibility).

In 2013 and 2015 the 'hawks had that synergy--guys like Keith and Hjammer were in the right positions to cover weakside attacker and collect the deflected pucks, leaving Crawford to get set square to the shooter and not have to be acrobatic--and his SV% showed it.

While the Team D last night could have been way better, the net positive is that the D-men were in sync with that and were collecting the off-to-the-side rebounds like they should--which is a small saving grace. I'm not going to slam the D last night because of that. If anything it's the O that needs to get going.

I'd agree with Crawford. The defense was much better compared to their usual play. Obviously, the shot and chance totals make this look like the Hawks shit themselves defensively, but I'd say they rose to the challenge. Playing with the lead changed their mindset -- of course, you'd like to see them generate more offense with the lead, but then again, perhaps it was the smart approach to simply play passive and not take chances, while barreling down defensively. This isn't a deep team, and it's hard for them to do both, because when they do, that's when they completely break down defensively.

I loved seeing the effectiveness to actually block shots because it's a rare sight to see from this Hawks team. The team as a whole had something like 30+ blocked shots. They were perfect on the PK too. I know people like to rag on Keith, but for the amount of minutes the guy plays, he's solid -- including last night, and I don't think it was an accident that he had one of his best games of the playoffs without Boqvist as his partner.

 

[LordKOTL]

I'd agree with Crawford. The defense was much better compared to their usual play. Obviously, the shot and chance totals make this look like the Hawks shit themselves defensively, but I'd say they rose to the challenge. Playing with the lead changed their mindset -- of course, you'd like to see them generate more offense with the lead, but then again, perhaps it was the smart approach to simply play passive and not take chances, while barreling down defensively. This isn't a deep team, and it's hard for them to do both, because when they do, that's when they completely break down defensively.

I loved seeing the effectiveness to actually block shots because it's a rare sight to see from this Hawks team. The team as a whole had something like 30+ blocked shots. They were perfect on the PK too. I know people like to rag on Keith, but for the amount of minutes the guy plays, he's solid -- including last night, and I don't think it was an accident that he had one of his best games of the playoffs without Boqvist as his partner.

I'm perfectly fine with Keith's game last night. He did what he needed to.

The D was both good and somewhat lacking. On the negative was the chances given up--and that was mostly horrible outlet passes and horrible pass receptions. That is mostly on the FWDs (they're culpable on defense as well). It kept the team pinned. On the positives--they blocked shots and made sure they cleaned up rebounds--and didn't cheat as much. 2nd chances were kept to a minimum. Granted, that doesn't take away from Crawford's steller night, but I saw a synergy there between the D and G that worked in the back end--and ultimately that's what you need--the D and G on the same page. Now we just need to get the transition and O going.

 

[Raskolnikov]

You like to tell people they're wrong, when it's you who's wrong.

In addition to Game 4, Lehner started the first two games of the series and has played 5 of the 7 total playoff games for Vegas -- so no, it's not an alternating schedule.

They gave Fleury a game because it was a back-to-back and because they were up 2 games. Lehner gave up one bad goal yesterday. If Deboer benches him for that, he's an idiot and he's over-coaching.

Well...Vegas loves Fleury and so do the players. Its an interesting decision and I wouldn't rule out a flip to alternating as is suggested or outright Fleury. This isn't the first time Fleury has given way to a back-up in early rounds and won the job back, which he took to a championship when this happened with Murray near the end of his Pitt time.

They could have been thinking at the start of playoffs that they would give Lehnar the opportunity to snuff out Chicago, confident they could beat us with him, while getting Fleury fresher deeper in playoffs. I don't know what they are thinking...my gut on the subject is that they will stick with Lehnar one more game.

But I think this plays into our hands, the team turmoil over it and if they switch to Fleury its a desperation move.

I think Lehnar gets one more shot at us, but if we prevail we get Fleury in game 6 and 7.

Fleury looked really good. Lehnar had the one soft goal that led to a loss, but it was more awkward than soft, imo and he played well enough they know they should have won the game.

We need to drop 4-6 on them and they will switch. A win in game 6 would make things very interesting and give old vets that "one last ride" momentum.

After last game I don't think its possible, we can't play 3 more games like that and they can, but hell, tighten the screws and see what the pressure does to them.

 

[Bigfoot]

We win Game 5 this series goes 7.

 

[anotheridiot]

A buddy of mine saw a post-game presser where Crawford said the thought the D played great.

The best Crawford ever plays is as a deflector goalie, not an absorption goalie. Back in 2012--his worst year--he tried to absorb but all that happened was the attackers getting 5-6 whacks at the puck at the netmouth and then ending up scoring because, at the time, Seabrook was the only one with the clockweights to try to clear the crease (A problem that continues today). Even Emery had that problem in 2012. His best work is trying to deflect the puck into the corners and rely on the D to clear the rebounds. That's also they the 'hawks lost a couple of games because the team D lost the weakside attacker (note: that's not always a D-man's responsibility).

In 2013 and 2015 the 'hawks had that synergy--guys like Keith and Hjammer were in the right positions to cover weakside attacker and collect the deflected pucks, leaving Crawford to get set square to the shooter and not have to be acrobatic--and his SV% showed it.

While the Team D last night could have been way better, the net positive is that the D-men were in sync with that and were collecting the off-to-the-side rebounds like they should--which is a small saving grace. I'm not going to slam the D last night because of that. If anything it's the O that needs to get going.

I agree, I just have not seen the hawks as active going after those bouncing pucks in the crease as they were yesterday. Those are usually the ones that get put back in the net after a stellar Crow save.

The blocked shots, man, those stats from yesterday were usually a weeks work if not a half dozen games.
A little more confidence in the D and we might see some streaking forwards trying to get Lehnar on a breakaway. I still say that is the key to messing with his head, well, if he plays tomorrow.

 

[Jack Lantern]

We win Game 5 this series goes 7.

Only 4 teams in history have come back down 3-0....so uhhh yea.

Hope I am wrong but still going with early prediction of Vegas in 5, Hawks have way too many holes with little depth. When Vegas turns it on the Hawks are just stuck in their half of the ice, lol

 

[TL1961]

No, its their regular schedule altering starts. Fleury has his name on 3 cups, Lehnar was already shaken. Bottom line is Fleury looked much better than Lehnar has looked. I can see sticking with Lehnar while he was winning, no way a back to back with Fleury available, which was the right call, now its gotta be back to alternating for them. What would Lehnars feeble mindfuck be if Fleury clinched yesterday? Lets get to the point of worrying who is in net for game 7.

Lehner started 1 and 2

 

[anotheridiot]

Lehner started 1 and 2

Thanks Einstein.

My comment was based on the regular season splits,
Lehner started 2-28 3-3 and 3-8
Fleury started 2-26 3-1 3-6 and 3-9

Last I checked that was every other game. Playoffs change things,

Fleury started 8-6 and 8-15
Lenher started 8-3 and 8-8, so up to the Chicago series it was an even split.

That was all my comment was based on, the only one who is never wrong is Granada.

 

[Diehardfan]

I'd agree with Crawford. The defense was much better compared to their usual play. Obviously, the shot and chance totals make this look like the Hawks shit themselves defensively, but I'd say they rose to the challenge. Playing with the lead changed their mindset -- of course, you'd like to see them generate more offense with the lead, but then again, perhaps it was the smart approach to simply play passive and not take chances, while barreling down defensively. This isn't a deep team, and it's hard for them to do both, because when they do, that's when they completely break down defensively.

I loved seeing the effectiveness to actually block shots because it's a rare sight to see from this Hawks team. The team as a whole had something like 30+ blocked shots. They were perfect on the PK too. I know people like to rag on Keith, but for the amount of minutes the guy plays, he's solid -- including last night, and I don't think it was an accident that he had one of his best games of the playoffs without Boqvist as his partner.

Not all high shot totals mean the team played bad D. Sometimes, you clear out and give your goalie a clean look at the shots....you rely on the goalie to stop open looks. Crawford has not been good at that in this series....either losing the net or going down too soon. He's been beat too many times on shots he could have stopped. I think last game was a bit of both with Crawford doing a better job. They're playing a better team that's probably pissed, he'll need to do it again.

 

[JimJohnson]

We win Game 5 this series goes 7.

Correct. Vegas wouldn't even show up for G6, just go straight to G7.

 

[greg23]

Sure looks like to me that we're getting dominated every game

Think we've been out shot by 50 thru four games....not a typo

My guess is our puck possession numbers are bad in the series as they always have the puck

I'd assume we're getting out hit drastically as well (not surprising)

And seems like our shots and chances are few and far between (lots of one and done)

We got a lucky bounce off their goalies head and our goalie stood on his head to gain our lone win so far. Unless things drastically change (and there aren't any personnel moves to make) we're going to need every break, bounce and three more crawford gems to have any chance.

Can easily see vegas with another dominating performance tomm that is similar to game 1 where we have little offense, pushback and Crawford just plays ok and we lose 4 or 5 to 1

 

[Granada]

Thanks Einstein.

My comment was based on the regular season splits,
Lehner started 2-28 3-3 and 3-8
Fleury started 2-26 3-1 3-6 and 3-9

Last I checked that was every other game. Playoffs change things,

Fleury started 8-6 and 8-15
Lenher started 8-3 and 8-8, so up to the Chicago series it was an even split.

That was all my comment was based on, the only one who is never wrong is Granada.

Wow, lot to unpack here.

First, regular season is irrelevant now.

Second, they weren't even on the same team until the deadline.

Third, there's a reason why Lehner was attained by Vegas at the deadline, "Einstein."

99% of the time, NHL teams will not "alternate" goalies once the playoffs arrive -- they like to know exactly who the starter will be, and they roll with that starter unless they face a desperate scenario, like being down 0-2 or 0-3, or if the team in front is playing like complete horse shit, or if their starter opened the series horribly -- none of which has happened with Vegas.

Also, in 1 of the 2 games Fleury played this playoff, he gave up 4 goals and had a .765 save percentage on 17 total shots on goal. But yeah, let's insert him back into the lineup, even though we're up 3-1 in the series. Lol

I actually hope you are right and Deboer is that stupid, because it would benefit the Hawks and would be over-coaching.

 

[LordKOTL]

Not all high shot totals mean the team played bad D. Sometimes, you clear out and give your goalie a clean look at the shots....you rely on the goalie to stop open looks. Crawford has not been good at that in this series....either losing the net or going down too soon. He's been beat too many times on shots he could have stopped. I think last game was a bit of both with Crawford doing a better job. They're playing a better team that's probably pissed, he'll need to do it again.

Part of D is to get the puck either via a takeaway or a rebound, and get it into transition. If that doesn't happen well enough then the puck is hemmed in, and that gives more chances/opportunity for the D (team D), and the goalie to make a fatal mistake--especially if panic sets in.

I read somewhere that the long-term average since 2005 for shots on goal per game is about 30.5. I figure +/- 4 is statistical noise. When it's beyond that it indicates either very good puck possession (See also: 2010, 2013), or very poor puck possession and a poor transition game by the defense. The problem last night was getting the puck into transition. While the D played good in terms of Defense 101 in getting the puck, preventing second chances, blocking, and clearing rebounds, they failed in starting the transition. Passes were picked off, unclean, an outlet pass was shot straight at the penalty box as penalty time expired, and of course the FWDs were simply failing to get passes and turning the puck over immediately. That part there needs to be fixed--but at the same time the D needs to keep doing what they did last game, and Crawford needs to remain dialed in.

 

[MassHavoc]

Wow, lot to unpack here.

First, regular season is irrelevant now.

Second, they weren't even on the same team until the deadline.

Third, there's a reason why Lehner was attained by Vegas at the deadline, "Einstein."

99% of the time, NHL teams will not "alternate" goalies once the playoffs arrive -- they like to know exactly who the starter will be, and they roll with that starter unless they face a desperate scenario, like being down 0-2 or 0-3, or if the team in front is playing like complete horse shit, or if their starter opened the series horribly -- none of which has happened with Vegas.

Also, in 1 of the 2 games Fleury played this playoff, he gave up 4 goals and had a .765 save percentage on 17 total shots on goal. But yeah, let's insert him back into the lineup, even though we're up 3-1 in the series. Lol

I actually hope you are right and Deboer is that stupid, because it would benefit the Hawks and would be over-coaching.

I imagine the reason they alternated was because it was the round robin, the games weren't as meaningful, and it was a valueable way to prep both goalies after the long layoff as well as try to see who came back the sharpest. If it was close you still go with Lehner. It's what you got him for.