Offseason discussion/rumors

[brett05]

Ok. Please explain why the best team didn't win close to 100 games in 2016. You are likely the only person in the USA, Cuba, the Dominican Republic and Japan who does not think the Cubs were the best team last regular season, so I would suggest you toss the "silly/trollish" comment.

This is your logic? Don't get into debates.

 

[brett05]

Let me understand this for a minute. Are you saying that over a 162 game season that you cannot objectively state why one team or another is the best in baseball? Is this once again because of the vagaries of the schedule? In essence you are saying that there is never an objective way, despite a preponderance of evidence, to make an objective case for the best team in the game in any season?

Let me just lay out the case for the Cubs:

- 1st in offensive WAR in MLB by 5 wins
- 4th in overall pitching WAR
- 1st in total defense including UZR, UZR 150 and total defensive WAR (all of these by overwhelming margins btw)
- first in wins by 8 games over both the Rangers and Nationals
- 1st in run differential

This is just looking at the regular season of course. If you were to debate this there is no argument, supported by a preponderance of evidence, that could make the case for another team. When you say this is subjective (defined as "based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.") it is incorrect because this is a case based on evidence. You are correct that there are sometimes cases that are so close that a subjective conclusion is drawn. This is not one of them because the overwhelming statistical evidence supports the Cubs. The definition of objective ("(of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.", does not support your argument because the data is so lopsided.

Again, there is a difference and you are minimizing it because somehow I am guessing based on the evidence shown, not picking the Cubs as the best team in baseball lessons your season.

 

[beckdawg]

Pay wall. Beckdawg already posted that link. Thanks though.

It was awhile ago I read the story but the gist of it was that Mike Borzello watched a bunch of film and told him he needed to use it more. Hendricks interestingly enough was super stubborn about it. Borzello literally sat him down and made him watch tape of what hitters were doing to him later in games because he wasn't using the curve enough and slowly Hendricks grew on the idea.

That's not to say Contreras didn't help push things along or anything like you suggest. Article was mainly just saying Borzello identified that as something Hendricks really needed to use more.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Again, there is a difference and you are minimizing it because somehow I am guessing based on the evidence shown, not picking the Cubs as the best team in baseball lessons your season.

No, that has nothing to do with it. You keep saying its a subjective argument which it decidedly is not. Again, I get where sometimes these things can be subjective when numbers are close but these are not. It is a fact based argument where, again, the preponderance of evidence supports the conclusion. The next two closest teams do not measure up on the facts. 162 games is a large sample size, enough to discount schedule concerns which seems to you main sticking point. I guess I shouldn't bang my head up against the wall but you started to call folks "trolls" and "silly" for supporting a evidentiary conclusion. With all due respect that is not right.

 

[Parade_Rain]

This is your logic? Don't get into debates.

Logic? You are the oe being illogical. Who were the best team in MLB in 2016, if it weren't the Cubs? You claim it's all subjective. It isn't. There is enough IL play and 162 game sample size. There was no other team who came close to the Cubs. Not one.

 

[brett05]

No, that has nothing to do with it. You keep saying its a subjective argument which it decidedly is not. Again, I get where sometimes these things can be subjective when numbers are close but these are not. It is a fact based argument where, again, the preponderance of evidence supports the conclusion. The next two closest teams do not measure up on the facts. 162 games is a large sample size, enough to discount schedule concerns which seems to you main sticking point. I guess I shouldn't bang my head up against the wall but you started to call folks "trolls" and "silly" for supporting a evidentiary conclusion. With all due respect that is not right.

With all due respect you are right. You can also be just plain wrong. The stats you provide while provide an objective number does not meet the burden of best team in baseball. That's subjective.

 

[brett05]

Logic? You are the oe being illogical. Who were the best team in MLB in 2016, if it weren't the Cubs? You claim it's all subjective. It isn't. There is enough IL play and 162 game sample size. There was no other team who came close to the Cubs. Not one.

I do not think you can determine who the best team in baseball was objectively for any year.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I do not think you can determine who the best team in baseball was objectively for any year.

This seems blissfully obtuse.

 

[brett05]

This seems blissfully obtuse.

Could it be done? Possibly. But right now any answer otherwise is ignorance IMO.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

I do not think you can determine who the best team in baseball was objectively for any year.

Yes you can.... Look below.

List of World Series Champions

2016 World Series – The Chicago Cubs defeated the Cleveland Indians 4 – 3

2015 World Series – The Kansas City Royals Defeated the New York Mets 4–1

2014 World Series – The San Francisco Giants Defeated the Kansas City Royals 4–3

2013 World Series – The Boston Red Sox Defeated the St. Louis Cardinals 4–2

2012 World Series – The San Francisco Giants Defeated the Detroit Tigers 4–0

2011 World Series – The St. Louis Cardinals Defeated the Texas Rangers 4–3

2010 World Series – The San Francisco Giants Defeated the Texas Rangers 4–1

2009 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the Philadelphia Phillies 4–2

2008 World Series – The Philadelphia Phillies Defeated the Tampa Bay Rays 4–1

2007 World Series – The Boston Red Sox Defeated the Colorado Rockies 4–0

2006 World Series – The St. Louis Cardinals Defeated the Detroit Tigers 4–1

2005 World Series – The Chicago White Sox Defeated the Houston Astros 4–0

2004 World Series – The Boston Red Sox Defeated the St. Louis Cardinals 4–0

2003 World Series – The Florida Marlins Defeated the New York Yankees 4–2

2002 World Series – The Anaheim Angels Defeated the San Francisco Giants 4–3

2001 World Series – The Arizona Diamondbacks Defeated the New York Yankees 4–3

2000 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the New York Mets 4–1

1999 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the Atlanta Braves 4–0

1998 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the San Diego Padres 4–0

1997 World Series – The Florida Marlins Defeated the Cleveland Indians 4–3

1996 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the Atlanta Braves 4–2

1995 World Series – The Atlanta Braves Defeated the Cleveland Indians 4–2

1994 World Series – There was no World Series Played

1993 World Series – The Toronto Blue Jays Defeated the Philadelphia Phillies 4–2

1992 World Series – The Toronto Blue Jays Defeated the Atlanta Braves 4–2

1991 World Series – The Minnesota Twins Defeated the Atlanta Braves 4–3

1990 World Series – The Cincinnati Reds Defeated the Oakland Athletics 4–0

1989 World Series – The Oakland Athletics Defeated the San Francisco Giants 4–0

1988 World Series – The Los Angeles Dodgers Defeated the Oakland Athletics 4–1

1987 World Series – The Minnesota Twins Defeated the St. Louis Cardinals 4–3

1986 World Series – The New York Mets Defeated the Boston Red Sox 4–3

1985 World Series – The Kansas City Royals Defeated the St. Louis Cardinals 4–3

1984 World Series – The Detroit Tigers Defeated the San Diego Padres 4–1

1983 World Series – The Baltimore Orioles Defeated the Philadelphia Phillies 4–1

1982 World Series – The St. Louis Cardinals Defeated the Milwaukee Brewers 4–3

1981 World Series – The Los Angeles Dodgers Defeated the New York Yankees 4–2

1980 World Series – The Philadelphia Phillies Defeated the Kansas City Royals 4–2

1979 World Series – The Pittsburgh Pirates Defeated the Baltimore Orioles 4–3

1978 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the Los Angeles Dodgers 4–2

1977 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the Los Angeles Dodgers 4–2

1976 World Series – The Cincinnati Reds Defeated the New York Yankees 4–0

1975 World Series – The Cincinnati Reds Defeated the Boston Red Sox 4–3

1974 World Series – The Oakland Athletics Defeated the Los Angeles Dodgers 4–1

1973 World Series – The Oakland Athletics Defeated the New York Mets 4–3

1972 World Series – The Oakland Athletics Defeated the Cincinnati Reds 4–3

1971 World Series – The Pittsburgh Pirates Defeated the Baltimore Orioles 4–3

1970 World Series – The Baltimore Orioles Defeated the Cincinnati Reds 4–1

1969 World Series – The New York Mets Defeated the Baltimore Orioles 4–1

1968 World Series – The Detroit Tigers Defeated the St. Louis Cardinals 4–3

1967 World Series – The St. Louis Cardinals Defeated the Boston Red Sox 4–3

1966 World Series – The Baltimore Orioles Defeated the Los Angeles Dodgers 4–0

1965 World Series – The Los Angeles Dodgers Defeated the Minnesota Twins 4–3

1964 World Series – The St. Louis Cardinals Defeated the New York Yankees 4–3

1963 World Series – The Los Angeles Dodgers Defeated the New York Yankees 4–0

1962 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the San Francisco Giants 4–3

1961 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the Cincinnati Reds 4–1

1960 World Series – The Pittsburgh Pirates Defeated the New York Yankees 4–3

1959 World Series – The Los Angeles Dodgers Defeated the Chicago White Sox 4–2

1958 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the Milwaukee Braves 4–3

1957 World Series – The Milwaukee Braves Defeated the New York Yankees 4–3

1956 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the Brooklyn Dodgers 4–3

1955 World Series – The Brooklyn Dodgers Defeated the New York Yankees 4–3

1954 World Series – The New York Giants Defeated the Cleveland Indians 4–0

1953 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the Brooklyn Dodgers 4–2

1952 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the Brooklyn Dodgers 4–3

1951 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the New York Giants 4–2

1950 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the Philadelphia Phillies 4–0

1949 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the Brooklyn Dodgers 4–1

1948 World Series – The Cleveland Indians Defeated the Boston Braves 4–2

1947 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the Brooklyn Dodgers 4–3

1946 World Series – The St. Louis Cardinals Defeated the Boston Red Sox 4–3

1945 World Series – The Detroit Tigers Defeated the Chicago Cubs 4–3

1944 World Series – The St. Louis Cardinals Defeated the St. Louis Browns 4–2

1943 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the St. Louis Cardinals 4–1

1942 World Series – The St. Louis Cardinals Defeated the New York Yankees 4–1

1941 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the Brooklyn Dodgers 4–1

1940 World Series – The Cincinnati Reds Defeated the Detroit Tigers 4–3

1939 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the Cincinnati Reds 4–0

1938 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the Chicago Cubs 4–0

1937 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the New York Giants 4–1

1936 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the New York Giants 4–2

1935 World Series – The Detroit Tigers Defeated the Chicago Cubs 4–2

1934 World Series – The St. Louis Cardinals Defeated the Detroit Tigers 4–3

1933 World Series – The New York Giants Defeated the Washington Senators 4–1

1932 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the Chicago Cubs 4–0

1931 World Series – The St. Louis Cardinals Defeated the Philadelphia Athletics 4–3

1930 World Series – The Philadelphia Athletics Defeated the St. Louis Cardinals 4–2

1929 World Series – The Philadelphia Athletics Defeated the Chicago Cubs 4–1

1928 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the St. Louis Cardinals 4–0

1927 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the Pittsburgh Pirates 4–0

1926 World Series – The St. Louis Cardinals Defeated the New York Yankees 4–3

1925 World Series – The Pittsburgh Pirates Defeated the Washington Senators 4–3

1924 World Series – The Washington Senators Defeated the New York Giants 4–3

1923 World Series – The New York Yankees Defeated the New York Giants 4–2

1922 World Series – The New York Giants Defeated the New York Yankees 4–0

1921 World Series – The New York Giants Defeated the New York Yankees 5–3

1920 World Series – The Cleveland Indians Defeated the Brooklyn Robins 5–2

1919 World Series – The Cincinnati Reds Defeated the Chicago White Sox 5–3

1918 World Series – The Boston Red Sox Defeated the Chicago Cubs 4–2

1917 World Series – The Chicago White Sox Defeated the New York Giants 4–2

1916 World Series – The Boston Red Sox Defeated the Brooklyn Robins 4–1

1915 World Series – The Boston Red Sox Defeated the Philadelphia Phillies 4–1

1914 World Series – The Boston Braves Defeated the Philadelphia Athletics 4–0

1913 World Series – The Philadelphia Athletics Defeated the New York Giants 4–1

1912 World Series – The Boston Red Sox Defeated the New York Giants 4–3

1911 World Series – The Philadelphia Athletics Defeated the New York Giants 4–2

1910 World Series – The Philadelphia Athletics Defeated the Chicago Cubs 4–1

1909 World Series – The Pittsburg Pirates Defeated the Detroit Tigers 4–3

1908 World Series – The Chicago Cubs Defeated the Detroit Tigers 4–1

1907 World Series – The Chicago Cubs Defeated the Detroit Tigers 4–0

1906 World Series – The Chicago White Sox Defeated the Chicago Cubs 4–2

1905 World Series – The New York Giants Defeated the Philadelphia Athletics 4–1

1904 World Series – There was no World Series Played

1903 World Series – The Boston Americans Defeated the Pittsburgh Pirates 5–3

 

[TC in Mississippi]

That's a different argument. The best team in baseball does not always win the World Series. The playoffs are essentially a tournament of a small sample size.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Could it be done? Possibly. But right now any answer otherwise is ignorance IMO.

 

[CSF77]

I believe to 2 best teams played in the WS. Indians simply crushed any contenders. Cubs cursed through the NL all season.

 

[NCChiFan]

I believe to 2 best teams played in the WS. Indians simply crushed any contenders. Cubs cursed through the NL all season.

Yes, damn all those other NL Teams!

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

That's a different argument. The best team in baseball does not always win the World Series. The playoffs are essentially a tournament of a small sample size.

It's the only thing the players care about. Why should the fans care about something else? Any other criteria is just stupid.

 

[ijustposthere]

You and others that agree with this need to know the difference between subjective and objective. Seriously. Or you are trolling. Not for me to say really.

You are one of maybe two people I've seen argue against the Cubs being the best team during the regular season. Pretty much every analyst was saying the same shit. You are wrong brett, per usual.

 

[ijustposthere]

I do not think you can determine who the best team in baseball was objectively for any year.

Says the guy who made the claim that the 05 White Sox were one of the best of all time, and not a flash in the pan.

 

[brett05]

Says the guy who made the claim that the 05 White Sox were one of the best of all time, and not a flash in the pan.

Who never once claimed that was objectivity. Thanks for playing.

 

[FrankieLyrical]

The petty arguments/disagreements in this thread are incredible.

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

The petty arguments/disagreements in this thread are incredible.

I disagree.