Okay this is Jimmy Butler's team

[czman]

If the 2004 Pistons can win a title without a player better than Jimmy Butler than why can't Jimmy Butler win as the best player on the Bulls? The 2014 Spurs didn't exactly have a stud superstar player either with Duncan past his prime and Leonard still coming into his own.

Never say never.

Leonard is better than Butler. Parker is a better offensive player. The Spurs were a team by committee, yes, but they had better offensive weapons than Butler. That was the entire point of this. Can Butler be the best option on a championship team.

The Pistons I can see, but I am not sure that Rip was not a better player. He was definitely was better at the offensive end.

I am not sure you can find a team that won a championship that had a best offensive player who was worse than Butler. The league is only getting more offensive heavy so it will be less and less likely going forward.

 

[czman]

Okay then...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flqoVkMBSQI

]

 

[Axl Rose]

Pistons benefited from a weak east and Kobe/Shaq drama.

also only 1 guy on the roster was making over 10 million and 2nd highest was making under 7 million but had 4 guys Billups/Hamilton/Sheed/Ben that are all-star caliber players

so you gotta find 2nd tier caliber players THAT ARE IN THEIR PRIME (no Gasol/Boozer) that arent looking to get max money, hope your conference is weak, and hope a team that is easily better than you is going through some type of drama where one guy shoots his team out of games while the other one barley tries.

this isn't a Justin Bieber concert...im saying never gonna happen. Pistons got lucky and hell the only they went back to the finals again was because a drunk Piston fan thought it was a good idea to throw a cup at Ron Artest

(which i guess in hindsight was because it knocked Pacers out)

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Leonard is better than Butler. Parker is a better offensive player. The Spurs were a team by committee, yes, but they had better offensive weapons than Butler. That was the entire point of this. Can Butler be the best option on a championship team.

The Pistons I can see, but I am not sure that Rip was not a better player. He was definitely was better at the offensive end.

I am not sure you can find a team that won a championship that had a best offensive player who was worse than Butler. The league is only getting more offensive heavy so it will be less and less likely going forward.

I'm not saying give up on finding a player better than Butler.

I'm not even saying give up on Rose ever coming back to MVP form.

What I am saying is I'm not convinced Butler is done improving. And he's already a legit franchise player. He can still improve his shooting and his low post game. His ball handling has come a long way but he might be able to keep improving that as well.

 

[houheffna]

I don't think Kawhi Leonard that won Finals MVP was better than Butler is today. Kawhi right now? May be another story there. Kawhi is shooting over 50% from the field and 50% from 3pt.

And no, Rip in 2004 wasn't as good as Butler is right now either in my opinion. Rip in his prime? Better player, but not when he won a title at 25. But those players had great coaching and strong veteran talent on their teams that knew what buttons to push. Rip's team overachieved. The Lakers lost that Finals as much as the Pistons won it. Neither were alpha dogs on those title teams. Kawhi scored under 18ppg in that Finals series. And though highly efficient, he only averaged 14,15ppg that postseason.

So in my opinion, neither of those guys are in the position Butler is in. Rip was not the man on that team, Billups was. Kawhi definitely wasn't the man on that Spurs team. Rip was never a franchise player. And neither were undisputed best player on their team when they won a title.

Can Butler be the best player on a championship team? I doubt it, but lets see. Rip played his best in the postseason that year. It will be interesting how Butler plays, and how his teammates play in the postseason this year.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I don't think Kawhi Leonard that won Finals MVP was better than Butler is today. Kawhi right now? May be another story there. Kawhi is shooting over 50% from the field and 50% from 3pt.

And no, Rip in 2004 wasn't as good as Butler is right now either in my opinion. Rip in his prime? Better player, but not when he won a title at 25. But those players had great coaching and strong veteran talent on their teams that knew what buttons to push. Rip's team overachieved. The Lakers lost that Finals as much as the Pistons won it. Neither were alpha dogs on those title teams. Kawhi scored under 18ppg in that Finals series. And though highly efficient, he only averaged 14,15ppg that postseason.

So in my opinion, neither of those guys are in the position Butler is in. Rip was not the man on that team, Billups was. Kawhi definitely wasn't the man on that Spurs team. Rip was never a franchise player. And neither were undisputed best player on their team when they won a title.

Can Butler be the best player on a championship team? I doubt it, but lets see. Rip played his best in the postseason that year. It will be interesting how Butler plays, and how his teammates play in the postseason this year.

What Butler has is a lot of heart. He has improved as drastically as I've ever seen a player improve from rookie season until now. He's fought through a lot of adversity on and off the court. It's no wonder why he and Jordan have respect for each other. In a lot of ways, they have that same mentality. When they feel insulted or challenged or slighted in any way, there is fire in their eyes.

I'm not saying Butler is Jordan, but there is a comparison to be made.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Pistons benefited from a weak east and Kobe/Shaq drama.

also only 1 guy on the roster was making over 10 million and 2nd highest was making under 7 million but had 4 guys Billups/Hamilton/Sheed/Ben that are all-star caliber players

so you gotta find 2nd tier caliber players THAT ARE IN THEIR PRIME (no Gasol/Boozer) that arent looking to get max money, hope your conference is weak, and hope a team that is easily better than you is going through some type of drama where one guy shoots his team out of games while the other one barley tries.

this isn't a Justin Bieber concert...im saying never gonna happen. Pistons got lucky and hell the only they went back to the finals again was because a drunk Piston fan thought it was a good idea to throw a cup at Ron Artest

(which i guess in hindsight was because it knocked Pacers out)

Was Dennis Rodman is his prime with the Bulls? Not really. He was the third best player on that team. And he wasn't as good of a player as Pau Gasol is right now. And Pau hasn't even demanded max money.

How many teams have won a championship without a group of veterans as apart of their supporting cast? Not many.

 

[Axl Rose]

Was Dennis Rodman is his prime with the Bulls? Not really. He was the third best player on that team. And he wasn't as good of a player as Pau Gasol is right now. And Pau hasn't even demanded max money.

How many teams have won a championship without a group of veterans as apart of their supporting cast? Not many.

i never said you don't need veterans. but if you want to be like the Pistons your main core needs to be in their prime. don't get why Rodman/Bulls were brought up...they had Jordan.

 

[Diddy1122]

Not just referring to 2013. But if I were...Got dammit isn't that reason enough? Many in town, including the front office, ESPECIALLY the front office, are ready to move on. Not saying Rose is a bad person...just don't know if he is a fit anymore.

It is what it is...YOU need to get over it.

I love how you have this insider knowledge into what GarPax are thinking. You, just like the rest of us, have absolutely NO CLUE what the FO thinks so stop trying to act like you do.

And yes, YOU, and others on this board, need to get over Rose sitting out the 2013 playoffs. You made the statement that he was "100% healthy" which is blatantly false. He was "Medically cleared to play" meaning he didn't stand a greater chance of reinjuring the knee if he played. He was by no means 100%. It takes a FULL YEAR, and sometimes longer, to recover from ACL surgery.

Let's not forget all the revisionist history that has gone on since with some posters here. Go back, check the posts and you will clearly see that the MAJORITY of this board not only wanted Rose to sit the entire 2012-2013 season, but wanted us to TANK TOO! If Rose was such a quitter, don't you think he would've given up after, I don't know, HIS FIRST SURGERY. He's had 3 total & still people question this kid's heart. It's absolutely ridiculous to me. Hate him for his dumb comments and what not, but he is not even close to being a quitter.

 

[The Hawk]

I'm not going to get over his sitting. He was medically examined by a doctors or doctors and cleared to play. I do not care if he was 70% able or higher. He SHOULD have tried to help his team. His team was banged up the last part of that season and ONE GUY sat it out.......THEIR DAMNED STAR! And despite their record support for their "STAR" I do not believe for a minute that these guys were not pissed at what he did.

That ruined Rose's reputation in my mind. He had Chicago in his hands and he dropped it. Then you have the stupid stupid comments that he made later and continues to make to this day. Obviously Rose isn't the the brightest bulb on the string and takes shitty advice from his "posse" instead of having a smart handler to coach him up.

 

[houheffna]

I love how you have this insider knowledge into what GarPax are thinking. You, just like the rest of us, have absolutely NO CLUE what the FO thinks so stop trying to act like you do.

And yes, YOU, and others on this board, need to get over Rose sitting out the 2013 playoffs. You made the statement that he was "100% healthy" which is blatantly false. He was "Medically cleared to play" meaning he didn't stand a greater chance of reinjuring the knee if he played. He was by no means 100%. It takes a FULL YEAR, and sometimes longer, to recover from ACL surgery.

Let's not forget all the revisionist history that has gone on since with some posters here. Go back, check the posts and you will clearly see that the MAJORITY of this board not only wanted Rose to sit the entire 2012-2013 season, but wanted us to TANK TOO! If Rose was such a quitter, don't you think he would've given up after, I don't know, HIS FIRST SURGERY. He's had 3 total & still people question this kid's heart. It's absolutely ridiculous to me. Hate him for his dumb comments and what not, but he is not even close to being a quitter.

What dumb comments...the dumb comments you show up and defend every time he says something dumb? Why would he "give up" after his first surgery when he has money to make? HE SAID HE WAS 100% HEALTHY! He made every excuse NOT to play..."I'll play when I can dunk off one leg", "I'll play when God says I am ready"...give me a break! The Bulls shut down Stacey King and Taj Gibson when they raved about how good Rose looked during practices. They were not allowed to say anything anymore. Why? Its common damn sense. He wasn't going to play because "mentally" he wasn't ready. And that's the whole problem. Mentally...he comes up short.

You don't need inside knowledge...just look at what's happened and read the words of those who do have inside knowledge...you know, the ones you and others call "haters" because their words don't fit the narrative you support. We've been through this with your boy Ben Gordon back in the day...remember?

If they could trade him...they would. They can't because nobody wants that contract. Something I said last year and few believed me. He isn't a franchise player anymore...he isn't an all star at this point. He is second, third fiddle on this team. Unless he gives the Bulls a nice hometown discount...I don't see anyway they bring him back when they can pursue better players with entourages that act as if they have common sense. And yeah, you, like others, will have to get over it. Honestly, if you followed Reinsdorf over the last 30 years, you know he doesn't want to put up with this anymore. History shows that the Bulls will move on. I've never said Rose wasn't a good person, I think he says a lot of dumb stuff, and has done some dumb stuff. Very good chance he will be the first MVP in league history not making the HOF...that's sad. But it is what it is.

By the way...I know you know that all of the time I've posted on these forums, I don't give a rat's ass what the majority opinion is. I have never been afraid to go against the majority.

 

[RoseMVP1]

It also helped the Pistons that each of their starters were stout defenders

 

[houheffna]

It also helped the Pistons that each of their starters were stout defenders

Yes, and Butler would have been a great fit on that team. He could have replaced Hamilton or Prince and they would have accomplished the same given the circumstances.

 

[GalePayton]

I love how you have this insider knowledge into what GarPax are thinking. You, just like the rest of us, have absolutely NO CLUE what the FO thinks so stop trying to act like you do.

And yes, YOU, and others on this board, need to get over Rose sitting out the 2013 playoffs. You made the statement that he was "100% healthy" which is blatantly false. He was "Medically cleared to play" meaning he didn't stand a greater chance of reinjuring the knee if he played. He was by no means 100%. It takes a FULL YEAR, and sometimes longer, to recover from ACL surgery.

Let's not forget all the revisionist history that has gone on since with some posters here. Go back, check the posts and you will clearly see that the MAJORITY of this board not only wanted Rose to sit the entire 2012-2013 season, but wanted us to TANK TOO! If Rose was such a quitter, don't you think he would've given up after, I don't know, HIS FIRST SURGERY. He's had 3 total & still people question this kid's heart. It's absolutely ridiculous to me. Hate him for his dumb comments and what not, but he is not even close to being a quitter.

 

[cjswan232482]

People like to forget that Rose had a front row seat when that same Bulls staff gave Luol Deng a clean bill of health when it turned out to be stress fractures. Im sure the same people werre calling Deng a pussy for sitting out too. That is why it is easy for Rose to disregard the criticism. He remembers people calling Deng soft when he almost died from a botched spinal tap and was forced to take pics when people began questioning him

 

[houheffna]

People like to forget that Rose had a front row seat when that same Bulls staff gave Luol Deng a clean bill of health when it turned out to be stress fractures. Im sure the same people werre calling Deng a pussy for sitting out too. That is why it is easy for Rose to disregard the criticism. He remembers people calling Deng soft when he almost died from a botched spinal tap and was forced to take pics when people began questioning him

Different situation. Deng's own doctor told him to sit out and that the fracture didn't heal. And yes, there were some who did question Deng. Again, different situation, so I don't know why you believe the same people would say anything negative about Deng.

And who the hell called Deng soft because of the spinal tap??? He tried to play! He showed up and the Bulls sent him home. I saw nobody on this thread say negative things about Deng at that time. Everyone was focused on the guy sitting on the sideline in a suit eating candy or bubble gum or whatever...

Totally different situations.

 

[Enasic]

Deng had the label of soft in like 07-09. After thibs got here and he became a workhorse he became known as a more durable/tougher player.

 

[czman]

I'm not saying give up on finding a player better than Butler.

I'm not even saying give up on Rose ever coming back to MVP form.

What I am saying is I'm not convinced Butler is done improving. And he's already a legit franchise player. He can still improve his shooting and his low post game. His ball handling has come a long way but he might be able to keep improving that as well.

He has not really shown much improvement between last year and this year. Most smalls peak 26-28 somewhere and start to decline 29-31. Butler is going to be 27. I don't see much more room for growth. Honestly I suspect his decline to start before his current contract with the Bulls ends. Not saying he will fall of the face of the earth but Butler is not a guy you can build long term around. He is a win now piece. The window for Butler is not very large.

 

[ursamajor]

Leonard is better than Butler. Parker is a better offensive player.

False and False.


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[ursamajor]

53 points, 10 boards, and 6 dimes on a sprained ankle.

Said it before, and I'll say it again, physically, Butler has the potential to be the most dominant 2 guard since a prime Kobe.

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