OT - PHI Extends Fletcher Cox, Most Guaranteed $$ In The NFL For A Non-QB

[didshereallysaythat]

I was replying to modo's post where he used metrics...

But whatever.

Cutler was marginally productive surrounded by Marshall, Jeffery, Forte, and Bennett. He's been the same guy his entire career regardless of surrounding cast.

Your argument, as per the usual, holds little to no water.

Let's see how Stafford does now that he doesn't have the best receiver since Jerry Rice to throw the ball to.

 

[Bort]

Its a different situation. The Jets had sucked as of late, and they won under Fitzpatrick last year. For the Jets to lowball Fitzpatrick and not bring him back, and then proceed to revert back to 6-10 would be a PR disaster.

No NFL team fan base is going to be upset with the front office for "missing out" on the chance to sign Jay Cutler to a 4yr/$18.675 contract.

The Jets would be willing to pay Cutler more than they'd be willing to pay Fitzpatrick because Cutler is a better player. Therefore, the amount the Jets would be willing to pay Fitzgerald does set the floor price for Cutler's services.

 

[Bort]

Do people really think that the Chiefs or Lions would trade Smith/Stafford straight up for Jay Cutler? Its bizarro CCS world...where we are stuck in 2012. Are the Panthers going to trade Newton for Cutler, too?

I would trade Stafford straight up for Cutler. Then again, that's not saying much because I have a low opinion of Stafford.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

And then when Stafford falls on his face, lets see if the Lions front office rewards Stafford with a 7yr/$126M contract, which will be justified by the Detroit fan base as the current going rate for an average NFL QB.

Cutler didn't get that deal after regressing.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Who is paying the "floor price" for Cutler's services? As of now, the Jets NEED Fitzpatrick. Fitzpatrick also needs the Jets, because no other team has offered on him. No one needs Jay Cutler.

No one "needs" Aaron Rodgers.

 

[Ares]

Who is paying the "floor price" for Cutler's services? As of now, the Jets NEED Fitzpatrick. Fitzpatrick also needs the Jets, because no other team has offered on him. No one needs Jay Cutler.

We NEED him..... so much :crying:

 

[FirstTimer]

Let's see how Stafford does now that he doesn't have the best receiver since Jerry Rice to throw the ball to.

Ok, that's fine. But Stafford already got his pay day at that point and the Lions were paying him on his potential and he was a year removed from a 5000 yard 41TD 16INT season and was all of 25 years old. At least on that contract they got a very good season out of it so far(2015).

Cutler thus far with the Bears has given us a bunch of marginal to average years with no real "peak".

 

[FirstTimer]

Cutler didn't get that deal after regressing.

Bears trade for Cutler coming off a 4,000 yard "Pro Bowl" season. Rate+'s in Denver of 110, 108, 104.

Cutler gets out performed by Josh McCown and has Rate+'s in Chicago of: 92, 103, 101, 95, 103.

Gets 7yr $126 million contract.

What planet do you live on?

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Ok, that's fine. But Stafford already got his pay day at that point and the Lions were paying him on his potential and he was a year removed from a 5000 yard 41TD 16INT season and was all of 25 years old. At least on that contract they got a very good season out of it so far(2015).

Cutler thus far with the Bears has given us a bunch of marginal to average years with no real "peak".

Let me ask you this. Say the Bears would have chosen not to resign Cutler after 2013. What do you think he would have gotten on the open market on a yearly basis?

 

[Bort]

Who is paying the "floor price" for Cutler's services? As of now, the Jets NEED Fitzpatrick. Fitzpatrick also needs the Jets, because no other team has offered on him. No one needs Jay Cutler.

The Jets need Fitzpatrick precisely because there aren't any decent free agent quarterbacks available, allowing mediocre free agent quarterbacks like Fitzpatrick and Sam Bradford to command large salaries. Average quarterbacks like Cutler command even larger salaries. It's supply and demand.

 

[gpphat]

We NEED him..... so much :crying:

GOATest of all time GOAT

 

[FirstTimer]

Let me ask you this. Say the Bears would have chosen not to resign Cutler after 2013. What do you think he would have gotten on the open market on a yearly basis?

Irrelevant.

I would I have signed McCown to a 2yr deal and drafted someone in the first or second round(I was really high on Derek Carr) and used the available cap space on (mainly) the defense.

As for Cutler in the 2014 QB market...I already pretty much answered this earlier in the thread. 2-3 years. 12-15 a year. Maybe incentive laden.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Irrelevant.

I would I have signed McCown to a 2yr deal and drafted someone in the first or second round(I was really high on Derek Carr) and used the available cap space on (mainly) the defense.

As for Cutler in the 2014 QB market...I already pretty much answered this earlier in the thread. 2-3 years. 12-15 a year. Maybe incentive laden.

I thought that was how much you thought he would get now.

IMO, in 2014 if Cutler hit the open market, he would have gotten a deal similar to Osweiler. You can agree or disagree as there is no way to prove it. But what he would have been offered kind of goes hand in hand with the going rate discussion.

 

[Bort]

Irrelevant. I would I have signed McCown to a 2yr deal and drafted someone in the first or second round(I was really high on Derek Carr) and used the available cap space on (mainly) the defense.

I actually would have done the same thing, and I didn't like the fact that we re-signed Cutler, especially for so much money.

I am not a Cutler fan.

Nonetheless, the discussion we were having was about whether Cutler is currently overpaid, and I think the answer is clearly no. He's playing like an average starting quarterback and getting paid like an average starting quarterback. Average starting quarterbacks make a lot of money.

 

[FirstTimer]

Nonetheless, the discussion we were having was about whether Cutler is currently overpaid, and I think the answer is clearly no. He's playing like an average starting quarterback and getting paid like an average starting quarterback. Average starting quarterbacks make a lot of money.

I can't believe we've reached the point where the Cutler contract is ok with fans because Cutler has continued to suck/be average for coming up on half a decade and the rest of the NFL has improved and started handing out more money to younger QB's with more potential.


What you are saying it's really true though. It's one thing to say "average QB's get paid that much" but the QB's getting paid that much were signed based on either past performance and or potential. Cutler got paid based on neither really as a 31 year old.

It's one thing for a 26 year old developing QB to under perform a big contract. It's another for a 31 year old with almost zero potential or performance to get that money.

You're judging Cutler on the same career/contract arc as guys like Stafford, Osweiler, Tannehill etc. That's kind of football stupid.

If the Jets handed Fitzpatrick 18 million a year tomorrow and excused it by citing guys like Stafford, Osweiler, Tannehill etc and their salaries I doubt this board would buy it for the reasons I cited above.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

I can't believe we've reached the point where the Cutler contract is ok with fans because Cutler has continued to suck/be average for coming up on half a decade and the rest of the NFL has improved and started handing out more money to younger QB's with more potential.


What you are saying it's really true though. It's one thing to say "average QB's get paid that much" but the QB's getting paid that much were signed based on either past performance and or potential. Cutler got paid based on neither really as a 31 year old.

It's one thing for a 26 year old developing QB to under perform a big contract. It's another for a 31 year old with almost zero potential or performance to get that money.

You're judging Cutler on the same career/contract arc as guys like Stafford, Osweiler, Tannehill etc. That's kind of football stupid.

If the Jets handed Fitzpatrick 18 million a year tomorrow and excused it by citing guys like Stafford, Osweiler, Tannehill etc and their salaries I doubt this board would buy it for the reasons I cited above.

Imagine how much steam you could have saved if you typed this from the beginning instead of trying to disprove that Cutler got the going rate.

 

[FirstTimer]

Imagine how much steam you could have saved if you typed this from the beginning instead of trying to disprove that Cutler got the going rate.

...I've been saying the same thing for hours in different ways;

Me at 10:30 this morning:

Real shocking. Tannehill signed a big contract coming off two straight years of improvement at 26 years old. Miami was betting the high side of improvement. Even with his step back last year he still threw for over 4,000 yards, started all 16 games and had a 2:1 TD:INT ratio.

Cutler signed his deal at 31 after getting out performed by Josh McCown and the following season was benched for Jimmy Clausen.

So yeah..look at Tannehill.

The Cutler contract is shit and is not the "going rate" for a 31 year old QB with zero playoff success and virtually zero regular season success.

Me at 11:30 this morning:

Cutler's contract AT THE VERY TIME IT WAS SIGNED was unprecedented for a QB in his situation.

This isn't some "wait and see" deal that needs to happen. QB's were getting HUGE deals around the time Cutler signed his contract. All of them could either lean back on "young potentially good/great QB", "past or present statistical success", "playoff success", something.

None of them leaned on "got out performed by HS gym teacher two months ago", 31 years old"

You're treating this like the contract is only bad in retrospect because the Bears took a risk and a dice roll on a physically gifted 26 year old coming off a very good season and it blew up in their face.

That's not what happened. The Cutler contract at the time it was signed was idiotic and an overpay given the NFL landscape at the time. It looks even worse now.

If the going rate for QB's of Cutler's ilk was so accepted Ryan Fitzpatrick would have been signed on the first day of free agency.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

I get this feeling that you are posting from a locked room, only getting bits and pieces of the ongoing conversation outside of your locked room, and then chiming in with uninformed observations.

Thanks for your concern.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

...I've been saying the same thing for hours in different ways;

Me at 10:30 this morning:



Me at 11:30 this morning:

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[dawags]

How can I change my vote from................after a Bear's loss where Cutler played played poorly to.............this time of the year?