OT: Ranking the 30 Best NBA teams from 2000-'12

[RamiTheBullsFan]

one thing i think that is important that hasn't been discussed is rebounding

the suns were a pretty bad rebounding team with nash and having no real center

the tandem of wade,lebron,and bosh would eat up offensive boards

especially because one of their best rebounders,amare, is often away from the post

then you got work horses like haslem who are good for some timely rebounds

That is true. Thomas would be the best rebounder when he was in the game but that wouldn't even be half of the game. Marion was capable of being a great rebounder in Amare's stead. This was a SF who averaged nearly 12 rebounds for a couple of seasons.

 

[clonetrooper264]

That is true. Thomas would be the best rebounder when he was in the game but that wouldn't even be half of the game. Marion was capable of being a great rebounder in Amare's stead. This was a SF who averaged nearly 12 rebounds for a couple of seasons.

He also was playing PF for a couple of seasons...

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

That is true. Thomas would be the best rebounder when he was in the game but that wouldn't even be half of the game. Marion was capable of being a great rebounder in Amare's stead. This was a SF who averaged nearly 12 rebounds for a couple of seasons.

the team was pretty awful in rebounds allowed because they sometimes looked to set up on offense once miami takes a shot more than blocking out

marion and amare are the only good rebounders(and it's a little inflated because of the pace they were at in the offense..more shots=more rebounds),everybody else is pretty bad at rebounding

kurt wouldn't be much of a factor imo

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

He also was playing PF for a couple of seasons...

The season when Amare missed the entire year in 2006, Marion played nothing but PF. Other than that, he has mostly played as a 3 man.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

the team was pretty awful in rebounds allowed because they sometimes looked to set up on offense once miami takes a shot more than blocking out

marion and amare are the only good rebounders(and it's a little inflated because of the pace they were at in the offense..more shots=more rebounds),everybody else is pretty bad at rebounding

kurt wouldn't be much of a factor imo

Yeah. The rebounding differential was -2 or something like that back in '07. I agree that would hinder their chances against the Heat.

Their defense was actually semi-decent though. Offense was through the roof which is why I like them in a series against Miami.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Yeah. The rebounding differential was -2 or something like that back in '07. I agree that would hinder their chances against the Heat.

Their defense was actually semi-decent though. Offense was through the roof which is why I like them in a series against Miami.

they're meh on D...a little above average

but nash is a massive liability on D

bell is a good defender...marion is decent but everyone else is pretty bad

the interior defense is pretty soft..kurt barely plays and would probably get into foul trouble pretty easily

one thing i'll give the suns credit for is having marion to match lebron..but lebron still has the height/strength advantage easy..and would still be tough to handle if lebron posts up...that in itself is just a massive matchup disadvantage(not necessarily because lebron has an advantage over marion, but because of all the other defensive issues lebron posting up can exploit) as i've pointed out again and again

Phoenix likes a run and gun transition game...not a good idea against guys like wade,battier, and james who are fantastic transition defenders

not to mention miami in transition would be bad for phoenix...phoenix is soft inside and more times than not miami would score(either by getting to the basket or driving and dishing), get a foul, or both

and if you get guys like amare,marion, or kurt...hell any of those three(maybe kurt to a lesser extent)..that hurts rebounding even more and it lets miami exploit all kinds of defensive issues

like, if marion gets into foul trouble..who guards lebron? bell? that would go as well as sefolosha trying to defend the post up

you want to talk about a team not really built for the playoffs? the suns...

mediocre rebounding, highly reliant on up tempo offense and meh defense, not really physical

does not add up well in the playoffs

i like how you don't have the mavericks(who were honestly a better team than the suns) in the top 30 because they lost in the first round(with a straight face, tell me you wouldn't put them in the top 30, maybe top 20, if they had reached the conf. finals)

yet you are so high on a suns team that didn't do much more in the playoffs(you can cry all you want about the stuff in the spurs series, but phoenix had issues with a more physical defensive team)

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Code, I was with you until you brought up those Mavs' teams. Their defense wasn't very good either and their offense was not as good as the Suns'.

The Mavs have a lot of teams in the top 30-40 range. But they are not in the top 30 with the exception of the '06 Mavs.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

No actual coherent thought on anything. Why he continues to try is beyond me.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

No actual coherent thought on anything. Why he continues to try is beyond me.

Everything I say, I back-up with factual/statistical evidence.

 

[nwfisch]

No actual coherent thought on anything. Why he continues to try is beyond me.

At least he didn't have a thread with 100 gifs in a row.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Code, I was with you until you brought up those Mavs' teams. Their defense wasn't very good either and their offense was not as good as the Suns'.

The Mavs have a lot of teams in the top 30-40 range. But they are not in the top 30 with the exception of the '06 Mavs.

the mavs D is definitely better lol

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

At least he didn't have a thread with 100 gifs in a row.

Thread ruled.

 

[FirstTimer]

I agree that the talent at the top isn't even comparable. Still, I just don't think Miami is well-suited to go up against a coach who makes adjustments as well as Rick Carlisle.

Sorry, but all the "adjustments" in the world by Carlisle can't mitigate that the Pacers being way behind at the top. They don't have the horses to make the adjustments. That's the entire idea.

Which team would I rather have long-term? Miami. Which do I think would win the first series between the two? Indiana. But it would be a dog-fight.

Pretty Special person assertion here.

Sums up your entire sorry posting career. While normal basketball observers are looking at the top end of the rosters(where it matters most) you get hung up on trying to compare Austin Croshere and James Jones. Your own list points out that the top end of the roster is important. You list the top players of each team right after each team, yet now Jamaal Tinsley matters a hell of a lot? Get a clue. The only reason you want to look at the bottom half of the roster so badly is because it's a feeble attempt to try and make yourself look/feel smarter by making yourself think you're analyzing the issue on a "deeper level". You're not. You're just making yourself look dumb.(As usual)

The idea behind benches isn't some ridiculous 1 on 1 matchup if Croshere>Jones. With players like that you look at how they would match up within the system and the series as a whole against what the Pacers and Heat try to do on each end of the floor. Croshere being "better" than Jones really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things if the Pacers aren't able to actually get Croshere into situations to use his skill set. These bench players and role players aren't good enough to take over games on there own generally so comparing players across from each other straight up in these situations doesn't matter. If the Heat can take away what the Pacers do to make Croshere effective then it doesn't matter if Croshere is better than Jones, or even worse than him. The system has been busted and disrupted and Croshere's effectiveness has been eliminated or limited.

Your complete inability to evaluate, discuss, and analyze basketball comes out the more and more you post.

I think you are ignoring how effective Amare Stoudemire could be when you threw him the ball in the high-post and allowed him to face-up and handle the ball

The hell are you talking about? I never "ignored" that, in fact I've directly mentioned that same fact a few times here in direct opposition to your idiotic assertion that Amare was an "interior presence". How can I "ignore" something that I initially brought up?

Yes, Amare Stoudemire's greatest asset was Steve Nash and the floor spacing they had. .

Herp the derp.

No shit.

Quit talking.

marion and amare are the only good rebounders(and it's a little inflated because of the pace they were at in the offense..more shots=more rebounds),everybody else is pretty bad at rebounding

kurt wouldn't be much of a factor imo

I guess Amare is a "good" rebounder but even still Amare has never had the reputation or even stat line to back that rep up all the way up. You're talking about a 6-10 250lb athletic freak of a PF who played in an uptempo offense/system where more shots went up on both ends and even still he's never had a year where he's put up 10+ boards a game.

Like I said earlier. Amare is a puss.

Everything I say, I back-up with factual/statistical evidence.

No it wasn't.

You have yet to actually back anything up. You can't even use statistics correctly or even put them in proper context, let alone use them to actually prove a point.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

No actual coherent thought on anything. Why he continues to try is beyond me.

....

 

[FirstTimer]

Rami, how about you explain these selections to us?

Why would you say such a terrible thing? Why?

...

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I guess Amare is a "good" rebounder but even still Amare has never had the reputation or even stat line to back that rep up all the way up. You're talking about a 6-10 250lb athletic freak of a PF who played in an uptempo offense/system where more shots went up on both ends and even still he's never had a year where he's put up 10+ boards a game.

.

i mean, he averaged pretty much 10 that year

the dude is a puss but i give him credit for being a much better rebounder than half the team, even when it's an up tempo offense

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Sorry, but all the "adjustments" in the world by Carlisle can't mitigate that the Pacers being way behind at the top. They don't have the horses to make the adjustments. That's the entire idea.


Pretty Special person assertion here.

I stop reading after this paragraph because it shows your stubbornness.

You are in love with LeBron James.

I am pretty sure you would rank the 2012 Heat over the 2011 Mavericks as well.

LBJ and Wade are both better than Nowitzki and Bosh is the next best player after all.

So asinine.

 

[nwfisch]

I stop reading after this paragraph because it shows your stubbornness.

You are in love with LeBron James.

I am pretty sure you would rank the 2012 Heat over the 2011 Mavericks as well.

LBJ and Wade are both better than Nowitzki and Bosh is the next best player after all.

So asinine.

I would rank the 12 Heat higher than the 11 Mavericks.

And I hate LeBron James with every bone in me. :shrug:

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I would rank the 12 Heat higher than the 11 Mavericks.

And I hate LeBron James with every bone in me. :shrug:

You also think Mario Chalmers has surpassed Jason Kidd. So... I dunno. Kidd is old but still better than Chalmers. Dallas also had Dirk Nowitzki and Tyson Chandler. What does Miami have at C?

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I stop reading after this paragraph because it shows your stubbornness.

You are in love with LeBron James.

I am pretty sure you would rank the 2012 Heat over the 2011 Mavericks as well.

LBJ and Wade are both better than Nowitzki and Bosh is the next best player after all.

So asinine.

uhhhhh...i would